Casting rod guide help

[ECobb91]

I’m starting to buy the components for my first casting rod build but I’d like some input especially on the guide train. My goal is to make a very light build, extremely sensitive, while not blowing $100 on the components.


Blank- NFC X-ray SJ736
Reel Seat- Fuji ECS size 16
Rear Grip- CRB FSG387 cork/composite
Butt Grip- CRB RSG3T cork/composite

Guide Train #1 Fuji SiC KW 10, KW 8, KB 6, KB 5, KR 5 (6 or 7 depending on static tests).

Guide Train #2 CRB LZR #10, #8, #6, #5 running guides.

Im open to all suggestions so feel free to roast the build if you guys think I’m doing something wrong. All criticism is constructive and just makes a better product in the end.

[bob o]

air wave guides, very inexpensive and work very well

[Bassbme]

I have no experience with the CRB LZR guides, so of the two guide trains you laid out, I'd go with guide train #1. I'd just say that unless you're going with titanium frames, you could go with an Alconite ring and save a some money. They might actually be a little lighter as well. Alconite rings are also a little more durable when it comes to possible cracking.

As far as number of running guides goes, the number is going to depend on two things ..... #1, how closely you want the path of the line to match the curve of the blank, and #2, whether you want to allow the line to touch the blank when under load. Myself, I don't like the line to touch the blank, and I like the path of the line to follow the curve of the blank very closely. Because of that I always err on the side of more running guides, than less.

Also, and this is just my thinking, but I use 3 double foot guides as a reduction train. KW 10, KW 8, and a KW 6. I go the KW 6 route because it carries a little more height down the blank and could eliminate the need for one extra guide.

[harrys]

I have just gotten back into building but have done 6 rods so far and have gone the route Bassbme stated with the Alcolite rings and I am using the newer CC frames. After doing some research I felt the same way that they were lighter, more durable and lower cost.....I looked at it as a win, win, win. Again I am just getting back into building, I just built 4 of the SJ765 blanks, I use all low profile reels and my train started with KW8, KW7 then went to 3 KB6 guides and finished with 6 KT5.5 and tipped it with the LG6.

I have some MB736 and SJ725 blanks coming and plan to look at the same type of train on them. You are building a heavy action mine are all Med Heavy you may get away with one less guide than I used.

Again, this is a beginners info with not much recent experience but thought I would throw this out to you, I know when I was asking question the more the info I received the better I like it. there is a bunch of great experienced guys on this site with lots of wisdom its been a great help for me getting back into building.

[Spoonplugger1]

No need to roast, but we need to know just how serious you are about weight and sensitivity cause you are well off the mark in that instance.
Your composite cork components, if they are anything like my composite cork are almost 3 times heavier than the same amount of cork ring. For the fighting butt I can live with that because of the increased durability but your split grip parts have no business being over 2 1/2 inches in length, I'd get the all cork front and cut it down, and do the same to the butt.
6ea. 3 mm guides weighs the same as one 6 mm guide and they are a whole bunch easier to put in a rod tube, harder to damage, easier to untangle. If you look at the Fuji info you will see they saw no advantage to going smaller than their recommendation on guides which by the way you disregarded, but casting isn't sensitivity and balance are they? What they haven't told you though is the smaller guides significantly increase pitching distance, we're talking over 10 ft with the lighter weights you'd use, 5 feet with the heavier. Just to many reasons for rethinking your selections if your serious about going light. For instance my CF grips weigh around 40% less than cork.

[ECobb91]

Thank you everyone for your opinions, especially spoonplugger that info is good to know. I’ve only a built a handful of spinning rods and I’m still trying to learn everything I can. I didn’t place an order yet so I’ll rethink the guide train and stuff to get it more inline with what I’m looking for. The main purpose of this rod will be pitching and Texas rigs so it’ll be nice to have that extra pitching distance for sure. Might end up looking into a micro guide train rout instead then

[Bassbme]

Weight, if it servers a purpose, is not your enemy. Where the weight is at on the rod, determines how detrimental it will be to rod performance. Weight in the rear grip is not as detrimental as weight in the guide train. And in fact, can aid in rod and reel balance. And if it's a pitching and Texas rig rod, balance is something you seriously need to consider, because it makes a big difference with slack and semi slack line techniques. I wouldn't scrap the idea of the composite cork grip if I were you.

As far as running guide sizes go. Yep ..... six 3mm micro guides weigh as much as one 6 mm guide. But you need to consider more than just the weight of the guides. Smaller guides clog easier, and if you have cottonwood trees in your area, you know how that stuff can cling to line and gunk up guides. Are you planning on using a leader at all? If so you had better be really good at tying the connecting knot from main line to leader, because it isn't going to pass through a 3 mm guide.

There are more things to consider than just building the lightest rod possible. You want to build the best rod possible, and the lightest rod is not always the best rod.

[Spoonplugger1]

Steve Gardner of Vibronics Rods has been using spiral wrapped rods with 3 mm runners for over 15 years, won an awful lot of tournaments with his rods. You can run 50 lb mono through a 3 mm guide no problem with lots fo room to spare. I have spinning rods with 2mm guides. I also don't build rods for short seasonal problems especially when I don't even know if that technique is the money technique. If I had to I could just pull out one of my 20 year old Shikari builds for special conditions. What you see in the store is what custom builders were doing 15 - 20 years ago, we're well outside that box.

[Bassbme]

Yes, I am aware that Steve Gardner is a huge proponent of micro guides. It was actually several posts he's made on Rodbuidling.org that I learned that six 3mm guides weigh the same as one 6mm guide. And yes he is a very accomplished angler, and knowledgeable rod builder, but that doesn't mean that he would recommend 3mm running guides without first asking questions that are relevant to the usage of the rod. As far as the 50 lb mono passing through a 3mm guide with no problem goes, that single line does not have a knot in it. Big difference when a possible main line to leader connecting knot is involved.

All I am advocating is that there are other factors to consider than just building the lightest rod possible. You want to build it with what you want it to do in mind, and then build it as light as possible.

[willwork4fish]

Everyone has their preferences and everyone above makes valid points. I'm kind of in the middle. Guides on top I like a double foot 8 then a single foot 7, 6 and 5's or 5.5s the rest of the way out. Spiral I'll go with a double foot 8, 2 single foot 7's for the transition, a 6 at 180 and then 5's or 5.5s. All of my personal casting rods are spiral and I've tried a variety of different sizes. They all work just fine. Nowadays I go with what I just listed unless it's a swimbait build where I'll use some bigger guides and more double foots.