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    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by LewStulePH.D. View Post
    What definition of "True" are Y'all using?
    please define "Y'all " then the Y'all can properly respond.


    Jw, Baptist , Methodist, Lutheran, eastern orthodoxy , catholic, non denominational ect.


    "True"..............................what is your definition of "True" ?
    Last edited by godsdozer; 04-28-2021 at 10:25 PM.

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    #22
    37 εἶπεν οὖν αὐτῷ ὁ Πιλᾶτος· Οὐκοῦν βασιλεὺς εἶ σύ; ἀπεκρίθη ὁ Ἰησοῦς· Σὺ λέγεις ὅτι βασιλεύς εἰμι. ἐγὼ εἰς τοῦτο γεγέννημαι καὶ εἰς τοῦτο ἐλήλυθα εἰς τὸν κόσμον ἵνα μαρτυρήσω τῇ ἀληθείᾳ· πᾶς ὁ ὢν ἐκ τῆς ἀληθείας ἀκούει μου τῆς φωνῆς. 37 Dixit itaque ei Pilatus: “ Ergo rex es tu? ”. Respondit Iesus: “ Tu dicis quia rex sum. Ego in hoc natus sum et ad hoc veni in mundum, ut testimonium perhibeam veritati; omnis, qui est ex veritate, audit meam vocem ”. 37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. 37 “You are a king, then!” said Governor Pilate. King Jesus answered with abandonment, “You say that I am a king. Instead, in fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
    38 λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ Πιλᾶτος· Τί ἐστιν ἀλήθεια; Καὶ τοῦτο εἰπὼν πάλιν ἐξῆλθεν πρὸς τοὺς Ἰουδαίους, καὶ λέγει αὐτοῖς· Ἐγὼ οὐδεμίαν εὑρίσκω ἐν αὐτῷ αἰτίαν· 38 Dicit ei Pilatus: “ Quid est veritas? ”. Et cum hoc dixisset, iterum exivit ad Iudaeos et dicit eis: “ Ego nullam invenio in eo causam. ” 38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all. 38 “What is truth?” retorted Pilate. With this he went out again to the Jews gathered there and said, “I find no basis for a charge against him.”

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    #23
    38“What is truth?” retorted Pilate. With this he went out again to the Jews gathered there and said, “I find no basis for a charge against him.”


    LewStulePH.D.


    Maybe you have an answer better than Pilate ?



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    #24
    Something that never changes..

  5. Member drifter106's Avatar
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by godsdozer View Post


    Pedophilia has ran rampant in the Catholic church as well. Our friend "drifter106" wants to talk about Miracles in crackers.......................... drifter106 , please talk about the pedophiles in the papacy ?
    What is miracles in crackers?
    Sacred Heart of Mary, pray for us now, and at the hour of our death. AMEN
    O blood and water which gush forth from the heart of Jesus, have mercy on us
    For the sake of his sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and the whole world

  6. Member drifter106's Avatar
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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by godsdozer View Post
    PMantle, while I am in your head. Lets reason together.

    1. The sacramental "wine" / represents the blood that was shed , does it not ?

    Why do Catholics need more "wine with cracker aberrations " to help them understand the shedding of blood ? Isn't the sacrament itself enough ?


    There is the body, and the blood .
    your pushing blasphemy when you insinuate that the consecrated host is a"cracker". Would expect more from you Jerry than that...very disappointing to say the least.
    Sacred Heart of Mary, pray for us now, and at the hour of our death. AMEN
    O blood and water which gush forth from the heart of Jesus, have mercy on us
    For the sake of his sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and the whole world

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    #27
    Jesus said the 'cracker' is His body and the 'wine' is his blood. Then He said to continue doing this; i.e. turning the cracker into his body and the blood into his wine and consuming them, in remembrance of Him. 1 Corinthians 11.

    If you think transubstantiation doesn't actually happen at a Catholic mass, then Jesus's words here must have been figurative. This is a dangerous stance to take. What if He was also speaking figuratively when He said He was/is the son of God. If you apply your logic the same to both cases Jesus would simply be a "son of God" just like the rest of us, as we were all created by God. I will assume you do not take that stance.

    The Catholic Church certainly has a big problem with sinful priests where evil has took hold. This is a problem with the people, not the teachings. Your focus on pedophiles is a good thing to point out, but completely unrelated to the miracle of Jesus being present in the consecrated host.

  8. Member drifter106's Avatar
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    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by basscatcher12 View Post
    The Catholic Church certainly has a big problem with sinful priests where evil has took hold. This is a problem with the people, not the teachings. Your focus on pedophiles is a good thing to point out, but completely unrelated to the miracle of Jesus being present in the consecrated host.
    Your inference is that there is a significant problem with evil in the church. Right? Since you know that, please share with us the ratio of ordained priests in the church compared to the number of priests that are sinful. Since you provide info as it pertains to abuse surely you can share with us those numbers.


    Lucky evil is only present in those who receive the sacrament of Holy Orders...right? Don't have any evil in other religious groups....right? On a positive note, some people may understand that the devil is going after the church that Jesus created himself.

    Totally agree with the idea that the Catholic Church is permeated with evil. Don't need to look further than the bishops who shy away from taking a moral stand....as well as how some of them tried to hide priests sins.
    Sacred Heart of Mary, pray for us now, and at the hour of our death. AMEN
    O blood and water which gush forth from the heart of Jesus, have mercy on us
    For the sake of his sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and the whole world

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    #29
    Take notes as you follow along:





    Drifter you have made a post here in this forum "claiming" a miracle in the Eucharist Here is an atheist asking some questions about the validity of your claim. Please get in touch with this atheist on YouTube and provide him with your scientific evidence. It may very well be the thing to convert him to Catholicism.




    Lastly, to basscatcher12 and drifter


    1 Corinthians 11.......................In the following instructions I have no praise to offer, because your gatherings do more harm than good. 18First of all, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it. 19And indeed, there must be differences among you to show which of you are approved.20Now then, when you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat. 21For as you eat, each of you goes ahead without sharing his meal.b While one remains hungry, another gets drunk. 22Don’t you have your own homes in which to eat and drink? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What can I say to you? Shall I praise you for this? No, I will not!23For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night He was betrayed, took bread, 24and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “This is My body, which is for you;c do this in remembrance of Me.” 25In the same way, after supper He took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against thed body and blood of the Lord. 28Each one must examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the bodye eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.31Now if we judged ourselves properly, we would not come under judgment. 32But when we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.


    I have a few observations.

    1. In the above text there is a stark difference in what was being described in the Corinthian church and what happens in a Catholic church.

    2. I have asked in a previous post directed to drifter..............how many people die taking the Eucharist in a unholy manner in the Catholic church. No reply, only that you do not keep records of it. So here is my next question to any Catholic or Protestant. How many people have died or gotten sick in your congregations ?

    3. "They" were instructed in 1 Corinthians 11:26 in the above text to "proclaim the Lords death until He comes ". Jesus , according to everything I read in the new testament came in A.D. 70. Its a moot point to me.

    4. basscatcher12 , your argument about literal vs figurative is addressed in the atheist video. If I provided 25 biblical examples as to why your argument is invalid I personally do not think you would change your mind.

    5. I provided the ingredients of what the catholic wafer is to be made out of in a anther thread on this forum...............I think it came from a catholic source. I pointed out ........................"its what crackers are made of."

    5. I am not here to argue........................the readers can view the videos and make up their own minds.

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    #30
    I could have worded this better drifter. The proportion of priests who commit sexual sins against children is small. The problem is big in that it has been the source of a lot of negative publicity toward the church. It is not a stretch to say that there are fewer believers as a result, which is a big problem. The proportion of priests who sin overall would be 100%. We know that everyone except for Jesus and Mary sin at some point during life. Also, you have original sin.

    I'm sure we will get to watch a video denying the Immaculate Conception now.

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    #31
    Quote Originally Posted by basscatcher12 View Post
    I could have worded this better drifter. The proportion of priests who commit sexual sins against children is small. The problem is big in that it has been the source of a lot of negative publicity toward the church. It is not a stretch to say that there are fewer believers as a result, which is a big problem. The proportion of priests who sin overall would be 100%. We know that everyone except for Jesus and Mary sin at some point during life. Also, you have original sin.

    I'm sure we will get to watch a video denying the Immaculate Conception now.


    So the readers on the forum understand what you just said I wanna make sure it is clear. You claim Mary (the mother of Jesus) was born from parents on earth who were sinners (original sin as you called it), but when Mary was born......................she was not a sinner ? She was perfect ? She never sinned in her life ?


    If that is the case............................why did we need Jesus ? Mary could have died for our sin. All we needed was someone "without spot , wrinkle or blemish " to be presented to God on our behalf.

    Or are there two (2) redeemers ?
    Last edited by godsdozer; 04-30-2021 at 08:22 PM.

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    #32
    Quote Originally Posted by basscatcher12 View Post
    Jesus said the 'cracker' is His body and the 'wine' is his blood. Then He said to continue doing this; i.e. turning the cracker into his body and the blood into his wine and consuming them, in remembrance of Him. 1 Corinthians 11.

    If you think transubstantiation doesn't actually happen at a Catholic mass, then Jesus's words here must have been figurative. This is a dangerous stance to take. What if He was also speaking figuratively when He said He was/is the son of God. If you apply your logic the same to both cases Jesus would simply be a "son of God" just like the rest of us, as we were all created by God. I will assume you do not take that stance.

    The Catholic Church certainly has a big problem with sinful priests where evil has took hold. This is a problem with the people, not the teachings. Your focus on pedophiles is a good thing to point out, but completely unrelated to the miracle of Jesus being present in the consecrated host.

    Here is a Literal or Figurative argument using proper logic .....................................How do you respond ?


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