Have close to 100 casting rods built under my belt. But I have built only one spinning rod. Now I am wanting to build one for me on a 7'2" M blank. But spinning guides perplex me. I just don't know enough about them to make a reasoned decision. Anyone have any preferences or thoughts?
I will be using a 3000 size reel with braid to leader (8 lb). Don't mind spending a little money on guides but I am fine with more economical options if you have a recommendation.
Thanks in advance.
I have built a lot. My favorite guides to do spinning rods are the tidal wave spinning rod guides at mud hole. I use braid to leader exclusively without any deterioration of inserts. I also fish clear water. Choose a tip top that that has very smooth supports that transition smoothly from the ring to the tube. When using braid of that weight, it’s common to have it wrap the tip. With a higher quality tip top it can be easier to SHAKE the wrap, wind knot, off the end of your rod when it does occur and it WILL occur. I have an nrx that I drop shot a lot with and it has the wire guides on it. They work nicely as well but they tend to have a noise to them when winding in the line under a load. I don’t like them only because of that. I’ve considered stripping the rod to put the tidal waves on it. It’s advertised that they increase casting distance and reduce line slap and I have to agree that I have got the same results. They do cost a bit more and the closer you get to the tip of the rod the more difficult they become to wrap because they are so small. Good luck to ya
I've only built 6 spinning rods. The only experience I had with spinning rod guide trains prior to building my own rods was on various factory rods that I owned. They either used NGC (new guide concept) guide trains, or COF (cone of flight) guide trains. Both of those type of guide trains use larger guides in their reduction trains. Cone of flight is old school and is more or less one continual reduction train all the way out to the tip top, in that each guide is progressively smaller, and shorter as it nears the tip. A cone of flight guide trains is a straight line to the tip of the rod. Guides are sized and spaced to keep the line running straight.
A new guide concept guide train has what is called a choke point. The choke point is the spot on the blank that a straight line from the center of the reel spool intersects the rod blank. The distance is based on the diameter of the spool. A guide is placed at the choke point, and then running guides continue to the tip of the blank. A cone of flight guide train is going to be the heaviest of the two. An NGC guide train will be lighter, but how much lighter depends on the length of the rod, and the size of the reel. A shorter rod with a larger reel will have less running guides.
With all that said, every spinning rod I have built, I have used a Fuji KR concept guide train. It was designed with braided line in mind, but I can attest that it works better than the above mentioned guide trains on nylon mono filament and fluorocarbon lines. It uses taller smaller ringed guides in the reduction train and works on the principal of rapidly choking the line down to where it is running straight by the time it gets to the choke point. Because of this the choke point is closer to the reel than the choke point would be in an NGC guide train.
A KR concept guide train is going to be the lightest guide train of the 3 mentioned. They are extremely easy to set up using the following link https://anglersresource.net/
Open the page and go to the menu box in the top right hand corner. Click on it then scroll down to the Resources heading. Click on the KR guide placement software link, input the information the software asks for, and it will tell you what size guides you need, and give you the placement for the reduction guides and choke guide. Ignore the recommended number of running guides they suggest. It's not going to be enough. I would get at least 1 and in reality, 2 or more running guides than they suggest. Running guides as always are placed using the 2 line static load method.
You will absolutely LOVE the way the rod casts and performs.
I use Tatsu fluorocarbon line as the main line on all of my spinning rods, and they will all out cast any factory rod I have ever used. And with braid, it's just nuts how well they cast.
I've gone to microwave guides on every spinning rod I own. Fantastic for braid.
2022 Hog Island Skiff
Johnson 70/40 jet
Bouncin' off rocks, and catching the smallies.
Potomac River Smallmouth Guide
Owner of Potomac Custom Tackle
x2 on Microwave, specifically the Air Waves. Cheap, strong, easy to work with, and light--I think they're lighter than a Fuji KR concept train unless you're springing for Torzites or something. Plus there are no inserts to break, groove, or lose. It scared me at first so I really put the first rod I built with them to the test. Never the first issue. Since, I've beat the hell out of them on everything from underpowered drop shot rods with 3-5lb smallmouth zinging 0.15mm braid and leader knots through them to flipping sticks (casting version) where I've yanked countless 3-5 lb largemouth out of thick milfoil with 50lb braid. They are great.
2011 Skeeter ZX225
225 Yamaha HPDI Series 2
Minn Kota Ultrex 112 52"
Console: HDS 16 Carbon
Bow: HDS 12 Carbon, Solix 12 G2, Mega 360, Garmin 106 SV, LVS 34
Are microwaves ok on a braid-to-leader setup with FG knot? How about this set?
http://www.anglersworkshop.com/MW20-Spinning-Finesse
I've never used the Microwave guide system, so I have no actual experience with them other than to have seen them on a couple of rods. They look cool, but they aren't as versatile as a KR concept guide train is when it comes to using different line types. They work on the same rapid choke concept as the KR concept, but because the middle ring in the stripper guide is a size 6, it will cause line stacking when used with stiffer lines. You won't have that potential problem with the KR system. Just something to consider if you ever decide to use a line other than braid as the main line on the rod you have them on.
As far as the weight goes. No doubts the Air Wave guide system is lighter than a KR guide train when using Fuji guides. Fuji doesn't offer a guide with no ceramic ring. I built a spinning rod for a friend using Pac Bay Minima match guides in a KR configuration. Minimas don't have ceramic rings. 10 guides weighed 4 grams. I used a tip top with a ceramic ring on that build specifically because my friend uses braid as his main line. I just figured it was a little insurance against braid grooving the tip top.
As far as the Microwave system on a casting rod goes. I really don't see the need or any advantage in the system on a casting rod. The outer ring on the butt guide does absolutely nothing other than add weight. It's the height of the center ring in the Microwave butt guide, or the height of the butt guide with a conventional guide, that makes the difference with casting rods.
Several years ago I swore off spinning rods/reels and sold every one. A couple of years ago I decided to try the AirWave guides on a spinning rod just to see/try the system. I figured I would end up selling the rod to cover the cost of components, but I liked the AirWave guides enough that I still have the rod and fish with it every little bit. I suggest you investigate the AirWave/MicroWave guides.
I use this sometimes https://anglersresource.net/kr-guide...ment-software/ makes it pretty easy.
With Fuji KR Alconites you'd want a KLAG16H for the stripper (20" from the reel spool axle tip) then a KLAG8H (8.5" from the stripper) then a KLAG6L (7.5" from the last guide) and then I'd use a KTAG5.5 for the choke (6.25" from the last guide)...from here it's kind of up to you and the blank for the runners. With braid to a leader I like to keep them at 5.5s but you could go with 5s too.
I don't care for Microwaves myself.
I throw braid to leader through AirWaves all the time without the first problem. As small as the 0.15 mm braid to 6 or 7lb (0.21-0.22 mm) Sniper and as big as .35 mm braid (e.g. 50lb J-braid) to a 25 lb (0.41 mm)Sniper leader. No issues in either case. I'm sure I've made at least 10,000 pitches with them on my flipping stick and they still look and perform like brand new.
I've admittedly not used the other Microwave guides so can't comment there. The AirWaves are cheaper and have worked so well, I've never thought about trying something different.
As evidenced by willwork's preference, some folks don't like them. I will say I think the casting better thing is probably overblown, especially compared to a well thought out guide train like the Fuji KR concept. They have just been really, really great performers for me.
2011 Skeeter ZX225
225 Yamaha HPDI Series 2
Minn Kota Ultrex 112 52"
Console: HDS 16 Carbon
Bow: HDS 12 Carbon, Solix 12 G2, Mega 360, Garmin 106 SV, LVS 34
Neither do I. I have a couple rods with them, built a couple others and have a couple sets just sitting around that I need to sell.Originally Posted by willwork4fish
My KR setup is very similar to yours
that’s a great explanation for spinning guides! I’m not the best for words. I tried the microwave guides on a rod because a customer wanted to put them on a rod. I was hesitant about it but now I use them all the time and they have just really done all the work for me. As the op said, I use them on finesse rods that are set up for nothing heavier than 12lb flouro or mono leader with a braid main line. Blood connections are what I use and have no problems with them coming thru the guides. Most guys out here are using 2500 or smaller stradics,
Reply With Quote