Interesting Senate Proposal to open CnR bass season earlier

[Smallie_Hawgin]

For those not in the know, MN has seasonal restrictions for the main game species (Walleye, Pike, Bass and Muskies). in 2014 we were able to get the bass season "opener" to coincide with the walleye/pike opener the second weekend of May. There has been all kinds of chatter about trying to get more angling opportunity available to anglers in MN, yet movement to create it has been minimal. Biologically, it really is not necessary to have seasonal restrictions as long as we have enough protection from harvest. A recent bill was proposed in the senate to allow catch and release for bass during the "closed" season https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/tex...Q_UxkPbhhvw4Vc

My initial thoughts are: great! At least it is getting in the legislature. There is a problem though, if we allow only one species (or two bass species) and not the others, now we create an enforcement issue. How does a CO distinguish between those bass fishing from those pike or walleye fishing during the early season? Hopefully, we'll see some traction gained from this as a grass roots effort by anglers contacting their representatives.

Just bringing it up for some discussion. Thoughts?

[PJ-Rohlf]

WI passed this legislation last year to allow catch and release year round. Outside of pike I think a CO could determine if fishing for bass or walleye from a boat. I also think anglers are going to be mindful of this and those that target out of season already / illegally harvest would continue to do so.

I know many of people who use small bait typically used for crappie to get around the closed bass season....

[DrewFlu33]

I hope it passes, but I'm not optimistic.

Closed seasons for catch and release are asinine, especially when the first, second, and third priority for management in this state is walleye. Walleye are terrible parents--they just drop their eggs and leave--so catching and releasing them that time of year likely does very little. Still, I bet opponents will use the excuse that people will say they're bass fishing when really walleye fishing to try to kill it. Then you have the people who will cite studies that they claim offer proof that catch-and-release fishing hurts bass populations. For example, one that is shared all the time to demonstrate the damaging effects of catch-and-release bed fishing for smallmouth involved putting a caught fish into a livewell for 15 minutes before releasing and found that some of them didn't return to their beds. That was called "catch and immediate release" and so people point to it a lot as their proof. To be fair to that study, they were really trying to document the problem of tournaments during the spawn where the majority of the work involved moving fish to the other side of the lake to see if they returned to their beds. Yet people see that one part and run with it as gospel.

The only hope I have is that MN sees WI license sales increase precipitously vs MN license sales with their rule change. It happened in Michigan, and I'd bet a bunch that WI sold a lot of licenses to MN residents it wouldn't have otherwise because of their law change. Money talks...

I hope I'm wrong!

[PJ-Rohlf]

Drew, I already know of 15 people personally that have bought or are buying WI license to come over and fish before the MN opener this year

[bass-o-maticjm]

There's a reason I started a different thread about fishing in WI prior to our "opener". I know I'll be buying a license in WI as well as a few others, and we'd never do this if we had the C&R season here.

Like Drew, I'm not optimistic it will ever get changed here and as a result, virtually every state that borders MN will get the revenue in the early spring that would otherwise have been spent here.

[DrewFlu33]

Drew, I already know of 15 people personally that have bought or are buying WI license to come over and fish before the MN opener this year

Add me to your list. I've got a bunch of friends in the same boat!

There's a reason I started a different thread about fishing in WI prior to our "opener". I know I'll be buying a license in WI as well as a few others, and we'd never do this if we had the C&R season here.

Like Drew, I'm not optimistic it will ever get changed here and as a result, virtually every state that borders MN will get the revenue in the early spring that would otherwise have been spent here.

Same story for me. That's a license that I am unlikely to buy and money spent over the state border that I would almost assuredly spend in MN if not for the closed season here.

[PJ-Rohlf]

I mean there was always the option for people in SE MN to go to the river as that is open season all year, but yeah you can get another 4-6 weeks in depending on ice out now that WI has C&R outside of normal season

[BassnPhoenix920]

Let me get this straight in Minnesota you can't bass fish even if you're throwing them back until the bass opener?

[Fishysam]

Yes.

[Sodaksam]

I keep catching smallies on x raps while fishing for crappies. Go figure. I’m not proud.

[Smallie_Hawgin]

Add me to your list. I've got a bunch of friends in the same boat!



Same story for me. That's a license that I am unlikely to buy and money spent over the state border that I would almost assuredly spend in MN if not for the closed season here.

I completely get it... But I guess, unless anglers contact their representatives to support something like this, then it's doomed from the start, right? I mean, if we had a house companion bill and anglers wanting it to happen, it sure as hell has a better shot.

On the previous mention of the study, there was never any mention of "population effects" individual nest effects, yes. Population level impacts from nest disturbance has not been confirmed anywhere in the literature that I am aware of. There was quite a bit of work in Canada on the topic. Phillip and Siepker have both written articles on the topic in North American Journal of Fisheries Management or Transactions of the American Fisheries Society, yet most if not all of their references are theoretical "potential harm" to the population(s). I found a 2006 article of interest in NAJFM by Siepker et. al... "Evidence of reduced reproductive success of nesting largemouth bass sampled with standard electrofishing procedures" From the article... Electrofishing during the spawning season has thepotential to cause declines in reproductive success of
individual largemouth bass. If electrofishing is conducted
during the peak of largemouth bass spawning
activity, a substantial proportion of spawning fish at
a given time may be subjected to stress that increases
the probability of nest abandonment. Furthermore, if
surveys are conducted on small water bodies or at
multiple times throughout the spawning period, as is
commonly done, an even greater proportion of the
parental male largemouth bass may be affected by
electrofishing."

Well, in MN electrofishing has been done for over 30 years now. Recruitment of bass continues to increase, survival from reproduction has been increasing over time. Biologically, early season angling makes no difference, period. Electrofishing for the past thirty years has made no difference (even in the face of different regulations in place, period... LMB_AVG_length_regs.jpg

Anyway, thanks for the perspectives.

[PJ-Rohlf]

At what time is electrofishing taking place? Just to clarify the points that you made. Are they electrofishing during spawn when you sourced that it can be harmful to the population or is this completed at a different time outside of spawn that would have no effect on the spawn.

Also getting into the spawn portion of the debate there have been many of times that I have bed fished smallies and largies well into season in the midwest, so what would fishing earlier is the pre spawn have to do with this as it is catch and release.

[Macsimus]

Eric,

I don't quite understand what is being stated in 6.c of the bill document you referenced. Is is a new addition? What does "close the season" mean? What does it mean in regards to bass fishing?

"The commissioner shall close the season in areas of the state where fish are spawning
and closing the season will protect the resource."

[Smallie_Hawgin]

At what time is electrofishing taking place? Just to clarify the points that you made. Are they electrofishing during spawn when you sourced that it can be harmful to the population or is this completed at a different time outside of spawn that would have no effect on the spawn.

Also getting into the spawn portion of the debate there have been many of times that I have bed fished smallies and largies well into season in the midwest, so what would fishing earlier is the pre spawn have to do with this as it is catch and release.

Electrofishing does occur pre and during spawning in MN. My point was basically saying even the DNR has been potentially causing "studied issues", and has done this for over three decades, yet despite this, reproduction and recruitment has not been harmed, whatsoever. Earlier CnR would not impact bass biologically at the population level. As you mentioned, the current season does not protect them and not does it need to... At least based on the evidence of consistent year classes over the history of electrofishing in the state.

[Smallie_Hawgin]

Eric,

I don't quite understand what is being stated in 6.c of the bill document you referenced. Is is a new addition? What does "close the season" mean? What does it mean in regards to bass fishing?

"The commissioner shall close the season in areas of the state where fish are spawning
and closing the season will protect the resource."

That portion is nothing new... It basically gives the DNR the authority to designate spawning aggregations... So basically walleye runs etc. Think Gull Lake dam or around the egg take sites around the state.

[PJ-Rohlf]

Electrofishing does occur pre and during spawning in MN. My point was basically saying even the DNR has been potentially causing "studied issues", and has done this for over three decades, yet despite this, reproduction and recruitment has not been harmed, whatsoever. Earlier CnR would not impact bass biologically at the population level. As you mentioned, the current season does not protect them and not does it need to... At least based on the evidence of consistent year classes over the history of electrofishing in the state.

Thank you for clarifying that.

[bass-o-maticjm]

Anyone know if this bill ever got any traction?

[bassmastermatt]

I am guessing I will be one of the few that are against opening up fishing earlier in MN for bass. Let Wisconsin try it out for 10 or more years and see how the bass fisheries respond. I think that one of the reasons that MN fishing for bass is so good is because of the protections and the off season the fisheries get. I would even be for keeping the current catch and release opener as is in MN, but extending the C&R period. I don't see electro-fishing as the same as regular fishing where different anglers fish the same water over and over, day after day, especially in prime spawning locations and times. The fish on popular waters wouldn't ever get a break during spawning times. I would also say if they are talking about open C&R all year for bass, why not all species if it doesn't affect reproduction. I don't see more protections as a bad thing, I see them as a good thing for the long term.

[drscholl14]

I am guessing I will be one of the few that are against opening up fishing earlier in MN for bass. Let Wisconsin try it out for 10 or more years and see how the bass fisheries respond. I think that one of the reasons that MN fishing for bass is so good is because of the protections and the off season the fisheries get. I would even be for keeping the current catch and release opener as is in MN, but extending the C&R period. I don't see electro-fishing as the same as regular fishing where different anglers fish the same water over and over, day after day, especially in prime spawning locations and times. The fish on popular waters wouldn't ever get a break during spawning times. I would also say if they are talking about open C&R all year for bass, why not all species if it doesn't affect reproduction. I don't see more protections as a bad thing, I see them as a good thing for the long term.

In the two years WI has had a year round C&R season it has gotten me over there to fish much more, and I have to say the more I fish over there, the more I'd rather fish over there than MN. There might not be as many lakes, but the bass are healthy and big. I'm plenty happy giving $$ to WI because they have earned it. All MN cares about is the walleye. Nothing else matters to the DNR, Politicians, or MNFish for that matter. It's a joke if you do anything other than walleye fishing. I'm all for conservation but I believe the bass can handle an extra 3-5 weeks on the season. That the reality here. It would only be another few weeks of fishing pressure.

[drhamm44]

Bass are prolific breeders. MN has never stocked bass that I am aware of and they will continue to thrive. The only thing that will hurt them is the DNR coming in and changing the rules on specific lakes, like Mille Lacs.