Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23
  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Location
    Bull Shoals, AR
    Posts
    97

    High speed sonar: tricks? future developments?

    So I was out yesterday getting nowhere finding fish (except right at the boat ramp...what's that all about?). Been that way for the past few days actually. Anyway, after a couple hours of idling around with SS/DS I decided to use 2D sonar on plane to try and find some baitfish pods. Bull Shoals is super deep...like 200' in the main channel and can be over 100' just 20 feet from the shore. I used my Lakemaster chart to stay clear of shallow water and cruised along the edge of the channel. I came across an image that looked different...like a small cluster of fish and stopped for a closer look. Turned into a good day albeit late with a couple nice keepers in the boat. If anyone else has some tips on using this technique I'm all ears.

    Some folks here are tuned into the R&D direction of sonar and I have to wonder if high speed sonar is an active area for improvement. SideScan on plane would be incredible. Especially with some indicators for fish and baitfish. A baitfish pod is so obvious I'd have to believe the software could be taught to identify one. Sure I can see them myself, but sometimes they are small or faint. At high speed it would be pretty hard to see if you were using sidescan and the normal, unzoomed view.

    I realize the boat bouncing around and other interference gets tricky at speed but just wondering if this is something the industry is interested in. Thanks

  2. Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,200
    #2
    You'd have to have a mighty long extension cord to power the processor(s) and sonar elements required to display SS image @ 70 mph.

  3. Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Location
    Bull Shoals, AR
    Posts
    97
    #3
    I hardly even look at my chart when driving 70 mph. how about something more reasonable like 35 mph?

  4. Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,200
    #4
    8000 watt generator strapped to the back deck n' your good to go. Of course it's gonna take liquid nitrogen to keep the transducer cool.

    The real answer to your question - Not in our life time. Or perhaps so at a prohibitive cost.

  5. Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Location
    Bull Shoals, AR
    Posts
    97
    #5
    Wondering how old you are. Have you lived through the tech advances I have? Did you wake up one day with a cell phone in your hand and think everyone must have always had one? Your vision seems a little short-sighted and for some reason your answer to everything is just to add more power (or money?). Please just don't respond if you have nothing helpful or interesting to say.

  6. Member Nightmare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    West Central Ohio
    Posts
    540
    #6
    need a safe space?

  7. Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    FTW Texas
    Posts
    2,416
    #7
    We do it quite often with 2d looking for stripers, going between 20-30mph is pretty easy. This guy shows ya what to look for


  8. Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Wichita ks
    Posts
    29
    #8
    Just my $0.02 but the Airmar transducers with more power and better Q rating are a step in the right direction speaking only about 2d of course. I went to the tm165 and one reason why was to fish Beaver with the exact same challenges as Bull Shoals where you are covering a vast amount of water chasing open water fish. I have a lot to learn, but my airmar so far has impressed me at speeds under 30mph where the screen stays pretty clean except for targets/bait.

  9. Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,200
    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by danieljanse View Post
    Wondering how old you are. Have you lived through the tech advances I have? Did you wake up one day with a cell phone in your hand and think everyone must have always had one? Your vision seems a little short-sighted and for some reason your answer to everything is just to add more power (or money?). Please just don't respond if you have nothing helpful or interesting to say.
    I hear your mommy calling - get back in the basement.

    You asked about sidescan at HIGH SPEED. 30-35 is not high speed. Well it's not unless you are still riding a tricycle! You want SideScan at HIGH SPEED it's gonna take power(electrical) and money. You need to git yur azz back to the shallow end of the pool!

    Those that replied with 2D solutions - that wasn't the question but yeah... things are visible at those speeds(30-35). More so with the higher powered transducers.

  10. Dink Flipper alpine4x4's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    East Wenatchee, WA
    Posts
    4,542
    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by yupitsme View Post
    I hear your mommy calling - get back in the basement.

    You asked about sidescan at HIGH SPEED. 30-35 is not high speed. Well it's not unless you are still riding a tricycle! You want SideScan at HIGH SPEED it's gonna take power(electrical) and money. You need to git yur azz back to the shallow end of the pool!

    Those that replied with 2D solutions - that wasn't the question but yeah... things are visible at those speeds(30-35). More so with the higher powered transducers.
    Comparatively 35mph is 7x faster than 5mph which is the max speed most use SS at, so yeah, I would call it "high speed" in this realm.

    The problem with SS at higher speeds is generally image quality. The image will be overly compressed and lacking any real detail. Honestly you can run SS at relatively high speeds now if you can keep the transducer in the water, which most of the time you cannot due to where its mounted.
    06 Skeeter 20i Yamaha 250 HPDI
    Visit my Youtube Channel!
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCW6p06navSpOqUn3xotG2vA

  11. Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Allentown,Pa since 1985
    Posts
    298
    #11
    What scroll rate and ping speed do you use if I may ask?

    Quote Originally Posted by danieljanse View Post
    So I was out yesterday getting nowhere finding fish (except right at the boat ramp...what's that all about?). Been that way for the past few days actually. Anyway, after a couple hours of idling around with SS/DS I decided to use 2D sonar on plane to try and find some baitfish pods. Bull Shoals is super deep...like 200' in the main channel and can be over 100' just 20 feet from the shore. I used my Lakemaster chart to stay clear of shallow water and cruised along the edge of the channel. I came across an image that looked different...like a small cluster of fish and stopped for a closer look. Turned into a good day albeit late with a couple nice keepers in the boat. If anyone else has some tips on using this technique I'm all ears.

    Some folks here are tuned into the R&D direction of sonar and I have to wonder if high speed sonar is an active area for improvement. SideScan on plane would be incredible. Especially with some indicators for fish and baitfish. A baitfish pod is so obvious I'd have to believe the software could be taught to identify one. Sure I can see them myself, but sometimes they are small or faint. At high speed it would be pretty hard to see if you were using sidescan and the normal, unzoomed view.

    I realize the boat bouncing around and other interference gets tricky at speed but just wondering if this is something the industry is interested in. Thanks

  12. Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,200
    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by alpine4x4 View Post
    Comparatively 35mph is 7x faster than 5mph which is the max speed most use SS at, so yeah, I would call it "high speed" in this realm.

    The problem with SS at higher speeds is generally image quality. The image will be overly compressed and lacking any real detail. Honestly you can run SS at relatively high speeds now if you can keep the transducer in the water, which most of the time you cannot due to where its mounted.
    Awww Hellll... I must'a missed it. In the OP post I only read "High Speed" I missed that part about "... for Side Scan" And yet again I erred in thinking he was referring to a meaningful useable side scan image. I simply did not know we were talking about a garbage screen full of worthless imagery. Please... continue to inform all of the benefits of running current Structure Scan technology at high speed... for structure scan.

  13. Dink Flipper alpine4x4's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    East Wenatchee, WA
    Posts
    4,542
    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by yupitsme View Post
    Awww Hellll... I must'a missed it. In the OP post I only read "High Speed" I missed that part about "... for Side Scan" And yet again I erred in thinking he was referring to a meaningful useable side scan image. I simply did not know we were talking about a garbage screen full of worthless imagery. Please... continue to inform all of the benefits of running current Structure Scan technology at high speed... for structure scan.
    I literally said it is lacking detail, so yeah, thanks for reiterating what I said? Take your useless drivel elsewhere, you have contributed nothing to this conversation beyond making an ass of yourself.
    06 Skeeter 20i Yamaha 250 HPDI
    Visit my Youtube Channel!
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCW6p06navSpOqUn3xotG2vA

  14. Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,200
    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by alpine4x4 View Post
    Take your useless drivel elsewhere, you have contributed nothing to this conversation beyond making an ass of yourself.
    Au Contraire DUDE! Was you that contributed worthless drivel. You simply told him what he already knew. While I, OTOH, answered his question. He didn't necessarily like the answer but then that's not my problem.

    To get meaningful side scan imagery at a blistering 35 mph would require a transducer capable of pinging 7X, using your number, faster than current technology runs at. Not only would the transducer need to ping at 7X current specs it would also require more power. Then... you have to have a processor capable processing the huge influx of data. Then... you'll need a monitor capable displaying that data in human readable format @ 7X the current scroll speed. If you're not keeping up I'll explain it - I just described a gaming video/computer. Do you know what gaming computers require? POWER! You know what else gaming computers create? HEAT! So in the end you wind up with a display scrolling so fast it's virtually useless. Which brings us full circle to my previous closing statement - Probably not in our life time.

    Like I said, I provided a valid answer while you provided - conflict.
    Last edited by yupitsme; 01-15-2021 at 04:26 PM.

  15. Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boerne & Three Rivers, Texas
    Posts
    18,061
    #15
    This question might be better asked on a big boat forum, where guys use through the hull ducers. Real through hull, not shoot through. They are bound to use something when looking for Marlin and blue water fish.

  16. Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Location
    Bull Shoals, AR
    Posts
    97
    #16
    Here's a thought: What do the map makers use when they chart a lake for say, the limited C-MAP contour series or Lakemaster? Seems like they would want to do that asap and the best way would be to use some sort of sidescan for the range. Are they idling around the whole lake?

    I have the 2D sonar set to the defaults which I believe is Max ping...no idea on scroll speed. I went out again yesterday and headed to a couple spots that I'd identified on my good old topo maps that were close to the main channel and looked out of the wind. On the way I used the 2D and noticed a baitfish pod so I dropped a waypoint. The spot turned out to be a dud so I headed back to the waypoint. The baitfish were still hanging out and I could see larger fish at various times on the down and sidescan. Good sonar day, not great fishing though...so many shad that I don't think they even noticed my lures.

    The idea to get on plane and scout for spots to fish was actually told to me by a local guide. I had an old PDT-WBL transducer which I siliconed in and it is working nicely. The Airmars sound interesting but I'm not sure I could get better 2D...it keeps giving a bottom signal into the low 40 mph range. In the 30s I've got a good signal almost as good as idling. When I'm scouting I try and dip into coves and stay close to the shore so slower speeds are a must. If I saw a deal on an Airmar I'd probably compare it to what I have.

    Thanks for the video also! I'd love to find the striper on this lake.

  17. Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    314
    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by danieljanse View Post
    Here's a thought: What do the map makers use when they chart a lake for say, the limited C-MAP contour series or Lakemaster? Seems like they would want to do that asap and the best way would be to use some sort of sidescan for the range. Are they idling around the whole lake?

    I have the 2D sonar set to the defaults which I believe is Max ping...no idea on scroll speed. I went out again yesterday and headed to a couple spots that I'd identified on my good old topo maps that were close to the main channel and looked out of the wind. On the way I used the 2D and noticed a baitfish pod so I dropped a waypoint. The spot turned out to be a dud so I headed back to the waypoint. The baitfish were still hanging out and I could see larger fish at various times on the down and sidescan. Good sonar day, not great fishing though...so many shad that I don't think they even noticed my lures.

    The idea to get on plane and scout for spots to fish was actually told to me by a local guide. I had an old PDT-WBL transducer which I siliconed in and it is working nicely. The Airmars sound interesting but I'm not sure I could get better 2D...it keeps giving a bottom signal into the low 40 mph range. In the 30s I've got a good signal almost as good as idling. When I'm scouting I try and dip into coves and stay close to the shore so slower speeds are a must. If I saw a deal on an Airmar I'd probably compare it to what I have.

    Thanks for the video also! I'd love to find the striper on this lake.
    The mapping boats i seen use multiple 2d type transducers on booms to cover large area in one pass. They use a computer to log data. All they are pinging for is depth nothing else. They use multiple boats on same lake at the same time. The only place you get depth from is under the boat. Side scan cant do depth 30 ft from the boat.

  18. Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Osakis, MN
    Posts
    226
    #18
    Side and down scan cone are much narrower than 2D so at 30 mph the sonar ping misses many targets.
    I wrote this article for FLW Magazine on searching for fish a few years ago, searching for fish on plane is something I use almost every time I go fishing.
    https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/02...March.pdf?1635
    Doctor Sonar®
    Go Fishing, the Clock is Ticking

  19. Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Location
    Bull Shoals, AR
    Posts
    97
    #19
    Great article, Doc and just what I was hoping to learn. Going to switch my background to blue. Hope you check back for a few follow up questions.

    - Does current sonar have the ability to use fish reveal to ID fish spikes rather than arches?

    - Do you play with scroll speed when on plane? I didn't and was still able to see baitfish but wonder if it would help decompress the image (would spikes become arches?)

    - What is your current favorite 2D sonar equipment setup?

    Bonus question: What's your goto Walleye lure when you find them like you described? ;)

  20. Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Location
    Bull Shoals, AR
    Posts
    97
    #20
    The mapping boats i seen use multiple 2d type transducers on booms to cover large area in one pass. They use a computer to log data. All they are pinging for is depth nothing else. They use multiple boats on same lake at the same time. The only place you get depth from is under the boat. Side scan cant do depth 30 ft from the boat.
    I can totally picture that! Are the booms holding some sort of a pontoon or narrow hull, like a catamaran, for the transducers to make surface contact? Thanks for helping me understand.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast