Should women be allowed to teach, speak, or lead in church? 1 Tim 2
Should women be allowed to teach, speak, or lead in church? 1 Tim 2
I coulda swore I responded to this yesterday but, perhaps i never hit post...
I did a little looking around on this question. On the surface, the answer is no. However, some of what I found suggests that the words Paul wrote to Timothy about not letting women teach were written to address a specific issue that existed in the church of Ephesus, that being uneducated women were providing false teachings. Another resource I ran across suggests that women can teach, but under the guidance of men, i.e. men set the doctrine. I do believe that the passage makes it clear that women should not serve as elders or pastors. Obviously, some religions differ on that.
Finally, in other writings by Paul, he condones women teaching. I'm referring to Acts 18 where Paul refers to Priscilla and Aquila teaching. The fact that her name is referenced first suggests to most scholars that she was the primary teacher. There are many other references in the bible to women taking an active role is prophesying or sharing the gospel.
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Last edited by LennyB; 04-17-2021 at 06:58 AM.
Probably a bit off topic, but I have often wondered how many men, are lead to Christ by a woman in their lives. A mother, sister, girlfriend, a wife? Their quiet prayer and personal example I believe has led many a man to salvation.
Myself included.
Same here.
So I'm a little confused, when it comes to evolution, the Bible means what it says, no matter what logic, or evidence, or science has shown, When Paul speaks in Timothy 2 -11.12 does that not mean what it says?
Should a woman teach in church? There must be something I don't understand.
As someone who used to be a pastor, I will try to say very little (and probably fail). I would be less concerned with whom is doing the leading and more concerned with what kind of person they are and where they are leading.
If I were going to take teaching from the old testament - and even the new testament - and apply it to my life, I would dig very deep to attempt to understand contextual cultural bias that inherently exerts ideals that are outside the core intent of the doctrine.
We all know where humans would be in this world without women. - moms, wives, sisters, daughters. Just try to imagine it. It's not a pretty sight. The first guy here that wants to give birth, just raise your hand.
- I'm not certain of much, but I'm certain that I don't know it all.
Last edited by NoZero; 01-09-2021 at 05:14 PM.
1985 Ranger 340v w/ 1985 Johnson GT150 Crossflow
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Last edited by LennyB; 04-17-2021 at 06:58 AM.
Originally Posted by rexico
I will help rexico.
(IMO) The women who were mentioned in the above thread WERE NOT ELDERS, APOSTLES, TEACHERS, PASTORS/Bishops blah blah blah................. but rather they were deacon's (deaconess ?) .
In church governments mentioned in the bible a deacons role was servant/helper to the others both to pastors and the congregation too. A plurality of men (elders) functioned as teachers of the Word to expound sound doctrine along with a lot other functions. A deacon (female or male) was never in a position of authority over a man nor a elder in any congregation mentioned in the bible.
Per preaching/teaching/ leading someone via sharing the gospel to them.........................anyone male, female, greek, slave , free ect can all do that.
You are correct in your post above................. The text means exactly what it says it means................or at least it used too until political correctness hit the scene, but that has been going on for centuries. The things people do to hold onto pet doctrines (what their church believes to be true) or be politicly correct are amazing. The vast majority of church government today is far from what is described in the bible. You have never seen a board of directors mentioned in the bible, you have never seen a singular authority ie a pastor runs the church LOL.
We cant get leadership correct for starters...............why do you think we have such bizarre teachings across the Christian spectrum ? In many church's all you have to say to some leader in a church ...................."God showed me this, can I share it with the congregation", Or I had a dream and God showed me this and I feel I need to share it with the Sunday School class this morning. those kinds of things can most likely get you into the Elder role of the church when you may have only been a believer for 3 weeks. LOL
Reading the epistle written to the Ephesians, and taking the teachings therein, Paul is addressing Timothy, who had been left in Ephesus to continue what paul had started.
Timothy is being instructed on the person seeking the office of minister and the minister's household, as well as the bishop and deacons. Therefore, we need to reference back to Ephesians 5 : 22-33 in order to obtain additional clarity of the paragraph referenced by the original posting.
When these teachings are amalgamated for the person seeking the ministry, the wife (woman) should not usurp the power of teaching over her husband (man) nor in any other aspects of his ministry, whether the wife of a minister, a bishop, or a deacon. Further, Paul makes no reference of this being by the Spirit as he does in 1 Timothy 4, or in his own opinion, as he does in 1 Corinthians 7.
Lenny I have never read the phrase you often use "Conclusion of the System of Things" in any bible translation I have studied over the years. I assume you are referencing "the end of the age" . It would serve you well to study "what system of things" / "end of the age the bible is referencing in your translation of the Bible.
Some people on this forum do not like "details" but this is exactly why details are important. To avoid false doctrine .
There was a "system of things/ an age " that was present when the NT writers wrote the NT and they described it as (this present age). Jesus and his apostles also spoke about "the age about to come".
Do you believe both "system of things"/ "this present age" to the the writers of the NT and the age ABOUT TO COME are present today ?
Would an all knowing God make all this clear, so we would know?
I think the answers are there but you must be willing to see. You can’t test the Lord. I used to say thing like, “Lord, if you’ll do (whatever), I’ll believe.” He never did do what I asked. Until finally, I believed.
Faith my brethren faith, and always remember the words of Jesus Christ during His temptation ' Thou shalt not put the LORD thy GOD to the test'. Though, I do find myself asking 'Lord if you could help me by guiding this lure like you did for Cephas' when it seems that I am catching nothing but 3# smallies no matter where or what I cast.
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Last edited by LennyB; 04-17-2021 at 06:58 AM.
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Last edited by LennyB; 04-17-2021 at 06:59 AM.
When will the Word End?
I did not know that GOD gave the earth an expiration date, and I am surprised that none of the geologist digging everywhere have found it also.
Oh well, bottle water has an expiration date, why not the earth.
According to that latino House Rep from NYC, AOC, the world is going to be coming to an end in about 10 yrs?, unless we get rid of all the cars and start driving electric cars.
Last edited by digthemup; 01-10-2021 at 05:24 PM. Reason: spelling
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Last edited by LennyB; 04-17-2021 at 06:59 AM.
Lenny, I have a very good grasp on biblical translations over the centuries, maybe you didn't understand what I was asking .
Ill try again. Follow along my question is not complicated.
In Post #8 You made mention of the passage Matthew 28: 19,20. I will post that passage below from a few translations.
New International Version : 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
New King James Version : Go [c]therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” [d]Amen
Youngs Literal Translation : having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them -- to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,20 teaching them to observe all, whatever I did command you,) and lo, I am with you all the days -- till the full end of the age.'
Now , If you prefer you can replace the term "end of the age" with your term/translation "conclusion of the system of things" . Hope you understand now, I don't care which translation you choose because I think either is a valid translation.
Now back to my question to you.
What age was Jesus and his first century contemporaries living in when Jesus made the statement "I will be with you always even to the end of the age" / "conclusion of the system of things " ? Ill post the question in another way, what "system of things" were Jesus and his first century contemporaries living under in in the first century ? Remember Jesus said I came for the lost sheep of Israel.
I would post the meaning of the term "this age" from the Greek Lexicons but I do not want to make this complicated for some readers. I accept your translation "conclusion of the system of things". What system were they currently under ?
OK, since the lost Israel as a nation have NOT accepted Jesus as Christ to this very hour, than what?? what age are we in?
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