Still can't make the decision on lithiums

[XChris1632X]

My starting battery just dumped on me. Boat sat for 2 months at the dealer and battery now won't accept charge. I had been planning on going to lithium but I still hear about a handfull of negatives such as don't work when its this cold out, cause some Phoenix boats to slow down due to lack of weight on rear, and in the end cost. Honestly I was sold on Ionics. I went to purchase from Drew crafts site last night and saw that in the last 6 months it looks as if the 125ah battery jumped $200. That irritated me enough to look at other batteries and notice zero price jump. I think everyone has expected the price of these to continue to fall as they gain popularity. That part is going to be a hard hurdle for me to get over quickly. My thinking is if they go up $200 in 6 months, what are they going to cost in 5 years when I need a new one. I can buy a lot of Deka intimidators for a lot less in that time period.

Is there anyone who wishes they wouldn't have pulled the trigger on lithium? I know largely most love it. Just trying to really weed out the negatives. I am concerned about losing speed in my 721 and have to fight to move my tackle to the rear to make up for it. Anyone have much experience with them in cold weather?

[BigBrownBass]

Mercury recommends an AGM battery. I have LiFePo for my trolling motor. I didn’t have any issues in the MN cold this fall. Charging temps need to be above 32 degrees F. Check specs for the brand you choose.
My 920 pro xp does not ride well without weight in the rear. I added 140 lbs to battery compartment and the ride is better in rough water. Kinda defeated the purpose going lithium. I’m happy with the performance but wouldn’t do it again because of the weight issue.

[XChris1632X]

Thats what I wanted to hear. Through all of the pages of lithium battery reviews it seems like it is guys saying how great they are. To me that either means they are that good, or they are trying to feel better about spending that money. I upgraded to a powerpole charge just to run lithiums and update my charging system. Im just having second thoughts.

In regard to temps, it makes more sense now that temps are critical for charging but not for use. I thought the became far less effective at cold temps and I was worried about not starting. Looks like the ones with the heaters installed would fix that.

[DREWTICK]

Actually the 125ah is the same Price as it was on 1-1-2020, the website prices did increase by $64 due to MAP price restrictions preventing us from posting sales or prices lower than the Manufacture.
We still have great discounts for BBC members and a few other private groups like Phoenix Boat owners, our prices are always based on the package and not the induvial battery but even a single will be discounted to a BBC member.

a full swap of 4 batteries using 50ah for the trolling motor you would be loosing about 190lb which will require making a few adjustments to the setup, with a manual jackplate this is always more of a pain as it always adjust and test, then repeat, but in most cases you can drop the P2p 3/4" and be back close to where you were running before, with a hydraulic it can fine tuned in a few minutes and we have seen many gains of 1 to 2 mph
the biggest advantage to the weight loss isn't the running lighter but for most its getting back to where the boat would run before, adding Poles/tallons, running 5 graphs and live scope and needing more battery power to run them which adds weight, some guys its always having the live wells full and for some they tell be they just have a very heavy buddy riding with them.

still they may not be for everyone but the % of people swapping to lithium continues to rise daily so I dont for see any price increases , hopefully in the future the price to manufacture them will continue to come down and shipping charges will stop going up.

Im always happy to answer any questions or quote prices and if you choose to go another route that's absolutely cool with me im still here to help when I can especially for my Phoenix Friends

[XChris1632X]

Thanks drewtick. No disrespect meant either. I wasn't directing any of my pricing remarks towards you. I very well could have looked at dates wrong. I just saw a June post where a guy talked about buying one for $870. You have always provided great customer service and to me, that is often more important than price. Im just trying to weigh options.

Are you doing any pre-orders for Mega live?

[DREWTICK]

Thanks drewtick. No disrespect meant either. I wasn't directing any of my pricing remarks towards you. I very well could have looked at dates wrong. I just saw a June post where a guy talked about buying one for $870. You have always provided great customer service and to me, that is often more important than price. Im just trying to weigh options.

Are you doing any pre-orders for Mega live?

not yet on the pre orders , I have not been given a shipping date but soon as I get one I will be taking orders.

[XChris1632X]

Is there still a concern over lithium batteries and water? Fishing big water it seems like waves are always washing over my deck. Im not as much concerned about shorting batteries out as much as I am of them catching fire in my boat.

[DREWTICK]

IONIC and most any batteries designed for marine use will be Lithium Iron Phosphate or LifePO4 which is very safe and then protected by a Battery Management system that will shut down the battery in the event of any type of short, over heat, or over charge , My batteries get wet constantly either because I stopped to quick and flooded the back deck, left the livewells on manual and ran them over or when Im washing out the bilge area which I do quite often. they are not ip68 submersible but it will not hurt them to get wet.

[06 SB]

Is there still a concern over lithium batteries and water? Fishing big water it seems like waves are always washing over my deck. Im not as much concerned about shorting batteries out as much as I am of them catching fire in my boat.

If you look into every battery fire in the bass boat world, it was always the charger or unsecured items in the bilge that caused the fire. It wasn’t lithium batteries. Since you do not have a Mercury 4 stroke, an AGM is not a requirement. A good but relatively inexpensive fix to your dilemma may be to buy the NAPA Commercial battery PN7234 or 7235 (same battery just different terminals). It is normally around $175 and is a great battery for the 2 stroke ProXS motors. You can watch the price of lithiums over the next few years.

[Meleagris1]

I've been running Ionics for two seasons now - 125ah for starting and 3 100ah for trolling. I run a lot of tidal rivers, Champlain, Great Lakes etc. I also fish in temps well below freezing. My only regret is that I didn't make the switch sooner. I bought mine from Andy and he was fantastic.

[fishin couillon]

Drew, talking about the 100ah and 125ah battery, can either be used for cranking?? Also when running the big motor, is each time you crank and run considered a "charge cycle" being the alternator is charging?? How does that work??

[DREWTICK]

Drew, talking about the 100ah and 125ah battery, can either be used for cranking?? Also when running the big motor, is each time you crank and run considered a "charge cycle" being the alternator is charging?? How does that work??

the 100ah and the 125ah can be used as a starting battery as long as we know ahead of time so we can install the upgraded BMS, many guys running 150ah use the 100ah as starting batteries and some with 2 graphs
we also have a 125ah available now that will start the 400R
anytime a battery is charged with the charger or the alternator when it above 50 to 60% it doesn't count as a cycle it uses partial cycles that add up to be a cycle
if you used 20% and charged every time and fished 10 times you may only end up with 2 cycles

[haus9393]

im one of the guys who lost speed going lithium, I used to run 5 AGM batteries, I swapped to 2 agm cranking and 3 lithium trolling last year and gained about .5-1mph but this year I swapped to full 5 lithiums and lost about 2 mph. But I will say I changed from a 12" to a 16" graph on the bow and also added another 10" graph so much more added weight up there this year. The lithium power is worth the slight speed loss. Mainly the issue is that I lost bow lift and that's the main reason why ive probably lost more speed. The reason ive lost bow lift is because ive removed so much weight from the back that my transom sits much higher now, then adding even more crap to my bow ive exponentially hurt the bow lift with weight. All my lithiums are 100AH so about 150lbs total. My old agms weighed about 340lbs. As far as the cold there is 0 issue discharging in the cold, I just fished on sunday and it was in the 20s. Ive cranked my pro xs over with the Relion HP a few times in the driveway when temps were close to 0 degrees without hesitation too. Charging I am mindful of the temps once below freezing, I actually have a garage now for my boat so the freezing temps are a thing of the past which is nice. This fall I ran my boat with all my graphs at 70 mph and then pulled my 3 graphs off the bow and ran 73mph and could feel much more lift.

[Phoenix919]

Replaced 3 Deep Cycles with Lithium's in my 919 and the boat runs higher, and zero problems in rough water. I just had to adjust the feel of the ride with the JP. Yes expensive option but I like how they perform on long days on the water. And with those adjustments to the JP I had to make, I have run the boat at 77 mph. So for me a win win scenario.

[km9e]

Running the Ionics -- two 125AH starting, & three 100AH trolling motor batteries. Charged in early October & still at 98-99%. My 21PHX rides absolutely great & got rid of 300-400 lbs out of the back. Trollers never under 85% after full hard day of fishing & starters with five lg graphs, live wells, 360 & livescope never went under 94%. I switched out & never looking back .... Drewtek is the best!

[findley1202]

Replaced 3 Deep Cycles with Lithium's in my 919 and the boat runs higher, and zero problems in rough water. I just had to adjust the feel of the ride with the JP. Yes expensive option but I like how they perform on long days on the water. And with those adjustments to the JP I had to make, I have run the boat at 77 mph. So for me a win win scenario.

Im assuming you had to raise the motor given the weight lots? If so approximately how much?

[DREWTICK]

Im assuming you had to raise the motor given the weight lots? If so approximately how much?

the weight loss means lowering the motor. on a phoenix that can be 3/4 to 1" or sometimes just moving some stuff from the front to the back and not have to lower that much

[bassm1n]

My 20 PHX has the motor mounted in the 3rd hole down and the Atlas is mounted flush to transom which id 3/4 inch higher than the factory. I normally run at 6-8 on gauge so I only have 1 1/2 inches to play with. Do you think I will need to raise the motor up 1 to have enough play and to accomodate lowering in rough water

[drjbh]

Drewcraft,
You said "a full swap of 4 batteries using 50ah for the trolling motor you would be loosing about 190lb which will require making a few adjustments to the setup, with a manual jackplate this is always more of a pain as it always adjust and test, then repeat, but in most cases you can drop the P2p 3/4" and be back close to where you were running before,"

WHAT DOES P2p 3/4" mean? I am new to all the subtle nuances of boating. Also, I run a Merc 250 on Ranger, and there may be no benefit to going lithium? I have a hydraulic jackplate and I could adjust with the lighter weight however. I hear Mercury recommend AGM batteries. What is the reason for this? Will I damage my engine with Lithium batteries? Thank you for you time, James.

[Shuck Grass]

Drewcraft,
You said "a full swap of 4 batteries using 50ah for the trolling motor you would be loosing about 190lb which will require making a few adjustments to the setup, with a manual jackplate this is always more of a pain as it always adjust and test, then repeat, but in most cases you can drop the P2p 3/4" and be back close to where you were running before,"

WHAT DOES P2p 3/4" mean? I am new to all the subtle nuances of boating. Also, I run a Merc 250 on Ranger, and there may be no benefit to going lithium? I have a hydraulic jackplate and I could adjust with the lighter weight however. I hear Mercury recommend AGM batteries. What is the reason for this? Will I damage my engine with Lithium batteries? Thank you for you time, James.

P2P means Prop to pad.