Killed an X2 Power 31 series combo starting/deep cycle in 3 years, QUESTION

[Squire]

Hi All, I put a X2 Power 31 series (AGM) in my boat after about 6 months (early 2017) (2017 Triton received August 2016). At the time it came with a 5 year (now 4 I think) warranty. Early on when I put it in, the boat would buzz when starting indicating "low voltage", but after the first time starting, it would start great (foreshadowing my problem question). So, last time out, it died at the end of the day (yup, cranking up to go to weigh in), but it did jump start. I took it out, and back to the Battery Plus store near my house where I bought it and it showed 13volts and the kid was like its fine. I asked them to do a discharge test and the owner who was out to lunch, got it and did just that and it showed that it discharged quickly and was bad. The owner said they almost never get X2's back that are dead and asked alot of questions about where and how I charge. They replaced the battery under the warranty and were very nice about it.

1) I charge from a cord the Marina gives me. He asked that I check to make sure there are at least 6amps from the cord. This I will do with a new tester I bought.
2) He asked about the charger and here is my question. I have the Triton installed Delta Volt (that seems to be key) Pro Series charger that uses one charge cycle that is good for both AGM and Lead Acid (so it claims). I have lead acid TM batteries that have done very well with this charger. Note: I leave it plugged in all the time as it claims to be a 3 stage charger and goes into maintenance mode as it detects a full charge.

My question is this after reading about the two battery types and their charging needs. Can one charging algorithm really work for 27 series lead acid and 31 series AGM? I suspect something here that may mean the AGM's life expectancy is shortened. I am reading alot about the Minnkota chargers where you manually set the battery type and thus no compromise in charging styles/rates necessary. I'd rather spend the bucks NOW on a new charger and save myself the pain of replacing batteries more often (and the worry of premature failure).

Would appreciate any experiences or first hand knowledge.

[CatFan]

If your charger is working, it’s fine for either battery.

The primary differences are the charging and float voltages. AGMs can be damaged by voltages that are fine for conventional batteries, so charger makers lowered the voltages to accommodate the AGMs.

The area I’d be looking at is your outboard charging system.

[bobcoy]

I would check with your X2 guy and see what they recommend. I have an Odyssey that is very much like your X2.(TPPL) they are very picky about chargers and recommend high amp chargers.(Min. 20 Amps on mine. Another key is what State of charge is that battery at the end of a fishing day? Sounds like it is pretty low if your motor wont crank. That battery needs to get back to fully charged that day or it will slowly die. You might also think about some additional battery power for electronics to remove some of the load if your motors alternator can't keep that battery topped off. Bob

[Squire]

If your charger is working, it’s fine for either battery.

The primary differences are the charging and float voltages. AGMs can be damaged by voltages that are fine for conventional batteries, so charger makers lowered the voltages to accommodate the AGMs.

The area I’d be looking at is your outboard charging system.

Thanks Catfan. I will measure the output of all 4 banks in the charger and see if there are significant variations. Any other measurements you would do?

I do use the battery post adapters everyone on here touts (including EuropeanAM) as well, maybe I also just got a X2 that was sitting way too long....

[Squire]

I would check with your X2 guy and see what they recommend. I have an Odyssey that is very much like your X2.(TPPL) they are very picky about chargers and recommend high amp chargers.(Min. 20 Amps on mine. Another key is what State of charge is that battery at the end of a fishing day? Sounds like it is pretty low if your motor wont crank. That battery needs to get back to fully charged that day or it will slowly die. You might also think about some additional battery power for electronics to remove some of the load if your motors alternator can't keep that battery topped off. Bob

Yea, I need to check the amps from the cord the Marina gives me (its 6gauge). I only have 100 hours on my motor, as life (wifes health) has taken a toll on my Tx time. So there are VERY FEW long days with livewells and electronics running. I do have 2 12inch (now ancient) Gen 3's touches that are running pretty much all the time I am on the water, though when not Tx fishing, I am idling atleast 1 3rd the time mapping, though I question how much the alternator is charging at that rpm level. I always check the lights before I leave for the day (it's always plugged in immediately after getting off the water), and all 4 banks have always shown charging. When I get to the boat in the morning, I always check for 4 banks of green (and it always has been). Unfortunately, I am stuck with whatever the marina provides amp wize and they ran this cord just for me as I am great friends with the owner after 20 years of business. I am one of the few with covered spots with power :). If its lower amps, it may mean I just have to run a 31 series Lead acid and plan on replacing more regularly. I would love lithium, but Opti's are not designed to handle them.

[bobcoy]

I was referring to the chargers output. The input can certainly affect that of course. I have a Minn kota 460(15 amps per battery) I have 5 batteries so I bought what was recommended, 20Amp portable Odyssey as that is what they recommended. It is made by Odyssey for that battery. $200 but I am not worried about it dyeing early. I always find out what the MFR wants for a charger. Of course things break anyway. Good luck with your replacement. Bob

[Squire]

I was referring to the chargers output. The input can certainly affect that of course. I have a Minn kota 460(15 amps per battery) I have 5 batteries so I bought what was recommended, 20Amp portable Odyssey as that is what they recommended. It is made by Odyssey for that battery. $200 but I am not worried about it dyeing early. I always find out what the MFR wants for a charger. Of course things break anyway. Good luck with your replacement. Bob

Yea, thanks Bob, was not trying to question what you said at all. I guess what I don't know is how the chargers distribute the amps coming from the supply? Does it evenly divide the amps? a 15 amp circuit would work out to 3.75 amps per battery, or it may be rotating the amps across the bank on a timing circuit? curious how that works....more research, which I enjoy....when I think about when I got my first boat, LOL, so much wasted money in retrospect.

[bobcoy]

Lets get specific. Lets say you have 120 AC volts with 15 amp breaker from the marina. If we transform that to 12 DC volts we could potentially have as many as 150 amps at 12 volts for our charger to distribute. Just saying you have no worries of asking more than the 15Amp marina breaker could handle. There are other factors that could be involved but lets keep this simple. So if you have 4, 15 amp pairs of wires you can charge 4 batteries at 15 amps no problem. The conversation before was mentioning if not supplied with good AC it could affect your chargers performance somewhat. That aside, unless there is something in your charger broken it should charge fine. I hope I did not confuse this anymore.

[Squire]

Lets get specific. Lets say you have 120 AC volts with 15 amp breaker from the marina. If we transform that to 12 DC volts we could potentially have as many as 150 amps at 12 volts for our charger to distribute. Just saying you have no worries of asking more than the 15Amp marina breaker could handle. There are other factors that could be involved but lets keep this simple. So if you have 4, 15 amp pairs of wires you can charge 4 batteries at 15 amps no problem. The conversation before was mentioning if not supplied with good AC it could affect your chargers performance somewhat. That aside, unless there is something in your charger broken it should charge fine. I hope I did not confuse this anymore.

DOH.....LOL....been too long sense I took those EE classes. Yes, its a big power inverter, so I would have lots of amps at 12v. Woof on me....lol

Makes sense why the Battery store owner said I needed at least 6amps. !20v AC with 6 amps converts to 12v DC with 66ish amps, plenty for a 4bank 15amp charger....walla

[Oprod]

I don’t know if your fishing by yourself or not, but if so you might learn how to put the console graphs to sleep when you leave the seat.

[Squire]

I don’t know if your fishing by yourself or not, but if so you might learn how to put the console graphs to sleep when you leave the seat.

yea, I get the sentiment and have done that when I know I have a battery that is not 100%. I have chosen to go on the journey of finding a battery that will run 2 large screen units and 2 livewells all day with some occasional running. I have also played around with adding a lithium jump battery as a recharger. You can hook them up parallel and give the starting battery a good boost and they are small enough to fit in the battery compartment in the tray (my triton has two trays). The X2Power should have enough power based on its rating to run everything without overly discharging it (plus others). I do wish Mercury and others would design their motors to allow Lithium batteries as they have the promise to solve the problems and they are getting very price competitive.

[rangerranger]

I'm now on my 3rd X2 31. I am only getting 2.5 years or so out of them before they start discharging quickly during the day. My Dual Pro 4x15 charger is always plugged in when the boat is not in use. Even when they are going bad, the batteries recharge and show a full charge at the start of the day. But after a couple years they start running down quickly. Its the same story when I return them...they test them at the store and say they are good. I have to convince them to put them on a load for a discharge test which they then fail.

It's pretty frustrating. I don't know if it is an issue with my Dual pro or the X2s just aren't as good as advertised. Dual pro says I can ship the charger back for testing but that isn't cheap (its out f warranty) and that leaves me off the water in the meantime.

[bloodman]

I'm now on my 3rd X2 31. I am only getting 2.5 years or so out of them before they start discharging quickly during the day. My Dual Pro 4x15 charger is always plugged in when the boat is not in use. Even when they are going bad, the batteries recharge and show a full charge at the start of the day. But after a couple years they start running down quickly. Its the same story when I return them...they test them at the store and say they are good. I have to convince them to put them on a load for a discharge test which they then fail.

It's pretty frustrating. I don't know if it is an issue with my Dual pro or the X2s just aren't as good as advertised. Dual pro says I can ship the charger back for testing but that isn't cheap (its out f warranty) and that leaves me off the water in the meantime.

Its really sad. I've had so many of these high end batteries it makes me sick. Never had any luck with any of them. Different makes, chargers, whatever. Never gonna buy one again. Sorry to hear you're one of the victims too.

[bobcoy]

ranger, What is your battery's voltage at the end of one of your typical days? Bob

[friogatto]

You say there is a low voltage buzz at the beginning of the day.
At the start of your next trip >
disconnect charger, wait 1 hr for the battery to "settle", check/record voltage.
Midway through the day check/record voltage.
At end of day before plugging in charger check/record voltage again.

Post results.


I think some people just have all the luck and other have all the problems.
Stuff just dies around me. 2 blown powerheads, Braided line lasts 3 months (about 24 trips) before respooling, reels last 1-2 seasons, Lead acid (tm and start) lasts about 18 months.
Never ran them but I'd expect an AGM to last me 3yrs at most.
Switched to Lithiums. Hoping for 6 but would be happy if they lasted 5yrs.

Seems the only thing that has hung in there is an 11 year old Tundra. Only 9 more years before I can pass it down.