Does this need to be wet sanded? (gelcoat)

[natrix19]

Hey guys, I have a 2012 Nitro Z8 with some oxidation in the top cap and on the fenders. I wouldn't say it's severe, but it's definitely noticeable especially in the black areas. The attached pics don't really show the oxidation too well as it's a cloudy day and the boat is in the garage, but when it's in the sun it's a lot more noticeable.

Marine 31 sells a boat oxidation removal kit which I've tried twice. The kid includes an oxidation cutter, polish, and wax, as well as a light cutting pad and polishing pad for each step. I've tried this twice now and it looks great for about a month until the oxidation returns. I use the dual action polisher from Harbor Freight that was recommended on this board in a different thread.

Do you guys think this needs to be sanded, or is it possible that the Marine 31 compound and pad isn't doing the job and that I should use try the 3M stuff recommended in the sticky thread in this forum before trying to sand it?

Here's a link to the Marine 31 stuff if you guys wanted to see what I've tried so far.

Here's the pics of the oxidation, like I said doesn't show well in these pics. In the 3rd pic you can see it's really foggy near the red stripe.

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[rojoguio]

It doesn't look too bad to me, Crank will chime in at some point with a better evaluation. I personally would try to polish with a heavy cleaner staying off the stripes. Maybe even green masking tape off the transitions and concentrate on a small area of the black. See what comes back. If it works you have got to protect it with something of great quality. None of this happens without a bit of elbow grease. Why my beater only gets washed in the rain, I've been way, way, too busy to work on "Shine".

[twitch]

I found that if it keeps coming back after using something like you did then it probably needs to be wet sanded but Crank68 will be a better judge of that stuff he has helped out many on this board...

[bigfoot17]

Crank helped me out with advice on my old skeeter and the results came out phenomenal!

[natrix19]

Thanks guys, I'll wait and see what Crank says. I'm definitely open to any product recommendations you guys have to get and protect the shine.

[trashmanssd]

I find cutting gel coat requires a microfiber or wool pad, foam wont cut it (pun intended). I like Griot's fast correcting cream for a compound. Gel coat is hard and requires more aggressive products and pads to cut through. That polisher will work but is weak and will take more time and more passes. A stronger polisher would work better or a rotary polisher is a lot faster but also dangerous as the can burn up pads and gel coat if not used properly.

[crank68]

Thanks for the kind words guys... I would say by the pics it needs sanding and black is hard to get to look right afterwards. Also the dual action machine you mentioned is pretty much useless on a boat. You have to be able to heat the surface to burn the final sand scratches out. The black will need buffing with a 3000 grit product (I use 3M Compound and Finishing Material) that finals as a polish and a wool cutting pad. It may need a final buffing stage with a product like 3M Perfect It 2 or Finesse It 2 with a med cut pad. You can call or text me and I’ll try to help you with how I would sand and buff it...may need to text me a few more pics or some folks will send me a short vid. Here’s a pic of a black Moomba I just finished a few weeks ago. I did a small repair on the finished side of the pic. 7EEB2CD7-CA1C-4E9B-9747-524381C8568D.jpeg

[tracer1]

That looks great Ted. Sure wish you wasn't so far from me.

[rojoguio]

I've noticed some of the newer boats that have very dark to black gelcoats are manufactured with a luster not found in older boat gelcoats. It is my theory at the molecular level an additive like in Dutatec High Gloss Additive is being added especially in dark gels. The boat in this thread is not a modified or maybe "fortified" would be a better word, gelcoat. As most coating cure the "luster" molecules rise to the surface and the "structural" molecules "suspend". As Crank68 correctly points out in his post older "blacks" really don't come back well or even maintain the restored lusture. I've restored numerous Saltwater Boat's luster and shine as a service to my customers. My guys hated if I agreed to cut & polish a boat. Polishers are 13 pounds. Hold that against the side of a boat all day. Most after a year chalked right back up but when you looked down the sides the luster was plainly seen. I'm not a chemist but theorize the UV protection and lusters get sanded off so what remains really does not want and can't stop burning up from UV. When your headlights "yellow" you can sand and polish right back clear but if nothing is added to prevent re-burning the lens clouds over. If you look at the cloud it remarkably resembles the cloud in the first pictures on the black. I personally grew up in Body Shops starting at 13 years old and have been painting with House of Kolor paint for over 30 years. Most House of Kolor clearcoats have no UV inhibitors so the "Custom Culture" paint job colors are as the artist intended. Notice no "real" custom painted project is left in the sun, the colors burn unless you use a clearcoat with the proper UV Inhibitors. PPG Refinish has fantastic refinish clearcoats for UV protection, mix a batch to spray and you can't see through it. I buy a high solids clear from Coast Airbrush that is crystal clear when mixed. Colors "Pop" when getting a coat of that product. So back to the point, if we get the "Black" back how to stabilized to surface from burning in UV exposure? This is over my head, the Glidecoat Pro is an coating like a clearcoat but very thin. My Blazer will be black gelcoated on top when done but I plan to adding lots of Duratec High Gloss Additive to my gelcoat increasing the percentages as the coats build as I believe that is the secret to the rich, lustrous, dark gelcoats coming out on boats today. Sorry to be so long winded but a bit of discriptive writing was necessary.

[natrix19]

Based on what Crank is saying, I should probably let the professionals handle this one LOL.

Rojo, is there a way to protect it once it's fixed? It sounds like a wax won't do it based on what you're saying, as it wouldn't have that "high gloss additive". But if I took it to get a new clearcoat or something, would that protect? Just trying to understand what's possible.

Thanks guys!

[paulrodbender]

I'm not 100% sure but i believe some of them Nitro's with them black stripes don't have clear gelcoat over the black stripes and the black gelcoat seems very thin.

[crank68]

There is no clear over colored gel just on the flake. Get the finish on the boat corrected and all of the oxidation off then keep it waxed and polished or in some cases people like ceramic coating. Find products you like and use them often that is the best way to protect the finish on your boat once it is corrected.

[natrix19]

Sounds good. Thanks guys!

[paulrodbender]

There is no clear over colored gel just on the flake. Get the finish on the boat corrected and all of the oxidation off then keep it waxed and polished or in some cases people like ceramic coating. Find products you like and use them often that is the best way to protect the finish on your boat once it is corrected.

Good to know Crank, thanks.....

[rojoguio]

As written above, I have not found a reasonably priced product be it wax or ceramic that protects against UV that is "Over the Counter". If you look for any type of written warranty on UV protection specs no "wax" manufacturer gives a spec on their product protection as it relates to UV inhibiting abilities. No spec no science behind the promotion. I would love to be corrected on this statement. We all need to protect our equipment. We used a polisher to machine wax all the boats we restored the Gel on but a year in a boat lift, chalk! Shine does not catch fish, has no bearing on how fast the boat goes either but maintaining the shine on a $80K bass boat really helps the resale. I personally have experience with the Glidecoat Pro. A consumer can not purchase it as a professional preparation & application has to be very strictly followed. That being said it is a catalyzed cure product that does add a cured visible film over the gelcoat. Also it is designed specifically for marine gelcoat application. We do need a product available for UV protection for gelcoat and vinyl with a wipe on and off application that's 100%. Get seats recovered and see it costs too. Carpet has a lot of additives in it. Look how long it takes the sun to eat up good carpet. Anyway other than garage kept I can't say how to protect your boat once finish restoration is complete.

[tracer1]

As written above, I have not found a reasonably priced product be it wax or ceramic that protects against UV that is "Over the Counter". If you look for any type of written warranty on UV protection specs no "wax" manufacturer gives a spec on their product protection as it relates to UV inhibiting abilities. No spec no science behind the promotion. I would love to be corrected on this statement. We all need to protect our equipment. We used a polisher to machine wax all the boats we restored the Gel on but a year in a boat lift, chalk! Shine does not catch fish, has no bearing on how fast the boat goes either but maintaining the shine on a $80K bass boat really helps the resale. I personally have experience with the Glidecoat Pro. A consumer can not purchase it as a professional preparation & application has to be very strictly followed. That being said it is a catalyzed cure product that does add a cured visible film over the gelcoat. Also it is designed specifically for marine gelcoat application. We do need a product available for UV protection for gelcoat and vinyl with a wipe on and off application that's 100%. Get seats recovered and see it costs too. Carpet has a lot of additives in it. Look how long it takes the sun to eat up good carpet. Anyway other than garage kept I can't say how to protect your boat once finish restoration is complete.

I may have this wrong but you're saying all these spray on ceramic coatings (Turtle Wax, Mothers, etc) actually doesn't do anything to protect the boat's gelcoat, right? And redoing the top cap (sanding, polishing, ProTec) is actually worthless since in a year or so it would have to be done again. And the only way we can halfway protect it from UV is to keep it polished and in a garage. That is really discouraging. All this time I thought I was protecting my boat. Am I looking at this the wrong way?

[rojoguio]

I don't think the alternative "Neglect" is the answer. I have no experience with Protec so would not have an opinion. Reflectivity is valuable as to helping to prevent UV damage. Besides walking on the gel with sandy soled shoes it is my opinion UV is the enemy here. Keeping the boat inside or covered if outside along with a good waxing will obviously prolong the finish. Gelcoat has pores, wax fills these pores, automotive products are not made for gelcoat. Consumers use automotive products on gelcoat all the time. Good results can be had if the boat is stored as written above after waxing. The purpose of asking someone to correct me is inviting anyone with solid science to give all of us a positive direction. I signed up with Glidecoat after an exhaustive search of gelcoat care products "fine print" where disclaimers are always located. After using their product on my hull I can say with a strong basis in fact that their PRO grade product is far and above any other product I have used or observed anyone else use. If you go through the painstaking process to restore a hulls finish that is when Glidecoat PRO is used. While the gelcoat is free of any waxes. If it's not perfect you get streaking, the very reason Glidecoat does not allow sales to consumers, "good enough for me" is not perfect. They end up with a unhappy customer through no fault of their own because of mis-application.

To directly answer your question, sanding & polishing does work, the waxing part is where the question is. Filled pores and increased reflectivity is a positive measurable value, meters are made for just such a measurement. Once a PRO grade application is completed the maintenance is a walk in the park. There is no avoiding the painful part, initial cost. I feel if I paid for the other work to be completed I would pay for the Marine Ceramic to be applied (2 Coats). One of my Buds has a fine old skeeter, he maintains an excellent wax job on it with the sprays but the big thing is he stores it inside, looks almost new. I hope this helps to clarify for you.

[tracer1]

Thanks rojo. Just wanted to know if I was wasting my money on the ceramic sprays. And if I ever had someone sand & polish if that was a waste of time and/or money. My boat is kept in my garage and even covered. Seems like all I do is clean & polish it. Probably too much. Here's a few pics of the gelcoat. This is an '08 boat so it won't look new. The hole in the fender happened last week at the lake. Didn't even notice it til I got home and was starting to clean it again. Guess someone backed into it and didn't to let me know. Got an estimate of $1200 for that. I keep a couple of moving blankets on the fender to protect them also. As I said this is in my garage. So what do you think is a good product to use. I think the ceramic sprays are automotive products, correct?

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[rojoguio]

Your boat looks great! I would not change anything. Do not criticize yourself for doing the maintenance properly. There are some polymer based waxes I personally like better than a carnauba based product. They last longer. After your "wax" base is built up a compatible spray "maintainer" is all that's needed. Stay away from any wax that states it is a "cleaner" too. Those have abrasives, you do not need any cleaner or abrasives on your gelcoat. The base will need reapplying periodically, depending on outside exposure. Again, great looking boat, pat yourself on the back.

[58LesPaul]

Spray ceramics are not as good as wipe on ceramics. I have a 99 Skeeter and worked it quite a few times with Marine 31 oxidation remover but all I have is a dual action polisher. It took a while to get it to where it is. I put GYEON Syncro wipe on ceramic coating on mine, it is a base coat and a top coat that is supposed to last 2 to 3 years on a car. I hope to get 5 to 6 years on the boat. So I believe some of the wipe on ceramic coatings are very good but you can't get them at Walmart or AutoZone. I use AutoGeek. I think GYEON now has gelcoat ceramic coating, not sure of the difference.