Flipping Stick build/advice

[apdriver]

For all the flippers out there, I need a little advice. I bought a couple NFC MB7109 7’10”, moderate fast mag heavy blanks rated for 1/2-2 oz and wanted to build a couple flipping/punching sticks with them. I’m not a day in day out flipping guy so I wanted to ask those that flip and punch all the time what their favorite length is. I’m 6’1 but just holding the blank it seems long to me. Before I make a mistake and build too long, what’s everyone’s opinion on length for this? TIA!!!

[purple_champ193]

Can I ask if you are really flipping like the old timers did or do you pitch more? I personally pitch and never flip and don't know many people who still flip (having an arm-length of line pulled out with the non-dominant hand and swinging the bait back and forth). For pitching I find the ideal length to be 7'2"-7'3" for smaller weights and 7'6" for heavier. I have had difficulty finding rods that I am accurate with at longer lengths than that.

[willwork4fish]

Yeah, same question as purple champ. Actual flippin or pitchin? I pitch with 7'-7'6", I flip with a 7'6", I punch with a 7'6". I've got an 8 footer that I break out sometimes for flippin and/or punching but prefer 7'6". I'm 6'1" myself. Around mixed cover where I'll be both pitching and flippin I'll be using a 7'6" with straight 20lb flouro.

Is the NFC HM? I only ask because if it is I personally wouldn't use braid. Close quarters, high modulus and braid is a possible explosion on every hookset IMO.

[apdriver]

Yes, it’s a HM Xray blank. Usually I’ll grab the bait so I flip more than I pitch, I guess. I can see where pitching would be more efficient, though.

[willwork4fish]

Yes, it’s a HM Xray blank. Usually I’ll grab the bait so I flip more than I pitch, I guess. I can see where pitching would be more efficient, though.

You're still talking about pitching. When you flip you're never touching the lure. Google "how to flip a lure" Timmy Horton has an old video that explains it really well.

[apdriver]

If I understand this correctly, I mostly pitch. I would like to have kinda dual purpose pitch and punch rod. It looks like you guys like a 7’6” for punching. A little shorter for dedicated pitching.

[Bassbme]

The advice I would offer for a flipping/ pitching rod build would be to choose a blank length and components that will result in a well balanced rod and reel combination. With flipping and pitching being slack and semi slack line techniques that are fished with the rod tip up, rod and reel balance is IMO, of utmost importance. A tip heavy rod will cause fatigue far faster than a well balanced, or tip light rod will. An overall heavier rod and reel that is well balanced will feel lighter while fishing, than a rod and reel that is actually lighter overall, but poorly balanced. A tip heavy rod takes more to accelerate the tip as well. And being able to accelerate the tip quickly and easily is extremely helpful when pitching and flipping.

Therefore my first consideration for such a rod, is how long my rear grip will be. Some blanks are heavier in their tip section than other blanks of similar length and power. The NFC X ray blanks are very light in the tip, but you're talking about a blank that is nearly 8' in length. You can move the reel seat closer to the tip to help with rod and reel balance, but IMO doing so is a poor choice. To begin with, depending on the length of the blank, one must move the reel seat a considerable distance to have an appreciable affect on rod and reel balance. Secondly, in the quest for the point of balance one is looking for, one could easily make the rod difficult to use because they've made the rear grip too long. What good is a rod, if it's difficult or becomes painful to use? Myself, I will gladly add weight to the butt of the rod, before I move the reel seat further up the blank.

Point of balance will also influence the components you'd want to use. If you use a leader you're going to need your guides to easily pass any associated connecting knots, and that is going to translate into larger guides. Larger guides weigh more than smaller guides. Guide weight, especially in the running portion of the rod blank, is a major contributing factor to a tip heavy rod. If you're going to go with larger #5 or #6 running guides you might want to consider titanium framed guides to help alleviate any tip heaviness. You also want to consider the type and material your rear grip is made of. Split rear grips made of light weight material aren't going to act as a counter balance of the weight of the rod ahead of the reel seat. You might consider a full length grip using cork to add some weight behind the reel seat. The longer the rod blank, the more important the factors I've mentioned, become.

For me personally. I consider rod and reel balance first and foremost for any rod that will be fished with the rod tip up, and with slack and semi slack line techniques. My personal preference is to have the rod and reel balance tip light. It aids in bite detection, and accuracy in both flipping and pitching. And in distance when pitching.

[geodebasser]

The advice I would offer for a flipping/ pitching rod build would be to choose a blank length and components that will result in a well balanced rod and reel combination. With flipping and pitching being slack and semi slack line techniques that are fished with the rod tip up, rod and reel balance is IMO, of utmost importance. A tip heavy rod will cause fatigue far faster than a well balanced, or tip light rod will. An overall heavier rod and reel that is well balanced will feel lighter while fishing, than a rod and reel that is actually lighter overall, but poorly balanced. A tip heavy rod takes more to accelerate the tip as well. And being able to accelerate the tip quickly and easily is extremely helpful when pitching and flipping.

Therefore my first consideration for such a rod, is how long my rear grip will be. Some blanks are heavier in their tip section than other blanks of similar length and power. The NFC X ray blanks are very light in the tip, but you're talking about a blank that is nearly 8' in length. You can move the reel seat closer to the tip to help with rod and reel balance, but IMO doing so is a poor choice. To begin with, depending on the length of the blank, one must move the reel seat a considerable distance to have an appreciable affect on rod and reel balance. Secondly, in the quest for the point of balance one is looking for, one could easily make the rod difficult to use because they've made the rear grip too long. What good is a rod, if it's difficult or becomes painful to use? Myself, I will gladly add weight to the butt of the rod, before I move the reel seat further up the blank.

Point of balance will also influence the components you'd want to use. If you use a leader you're going to need your guides to easily pass any associated connecting knots, and that is going to translate into larger guides. Larger guides weigh more than smaller guides. Guide weight, especially in the running portion of the rod blank, is a major contributing factor to a tip heavy rod. If you're going to go with larger #5 or #6 running guides you might want to consider titanium framed guides to help alleviate any tip heaviness. You also want to consider the type and material your rear grip is made of. Split rear grips made of light weight material aren't going to act as a counter balance of the weight of the rod ahead of the reel seat. You might consider a full length grip using cork to add some weight behind the reel seat. The longer the rod blank, the more important the factors I've mentioned, become.

For me personally. I consider rod and reel balance first and foremost for any rod that will be fished with the rod tip up, and with slack and semi slack line techniques. My personal preference is to have the rod and reel balance tip light. It aids in bite detection, and accuracy in both flipping and pitching. And in distance when pitching.

Good stuff here.

[apdriver]

Thanks for the reply, Bassbme. The last rod I built I balanced it by adding weight and it really made a huge difference in the sensitivity. I am using size 5 runners just to make sure a double uni or Albright will pass easily. I plan on balancing these, also. This gives me a place to start with my length and layout. Thanks again.

[apdriver]

So to continue on this pitching rod thread, what’s the length of the handle on your favorite pitching rod? Bassbme made a very good point about handle length and running into problems if it’s too long. Too short isn’t good either. To balance a rod, you need a handle length and overall length that you can work with to find a balance point without adding too much weight to the butt. Just wondering what others prefer in a pitching stick.

[Bassbme]

apdriver, I would suggest you measure the length of the rear grip on the rod you currently flip and pitch with. If it's comfortable and clears your body and any associated clothing you might wear, I would just match it. Your physical dimensions are going to play into what you're able to use as well. Also, because both flipping and pitching are done using your wrist and forearm, (mostly the wrist) the rear grips travel path is going to be a key consideration. By travel path, I mean where does the rear grip go when you're performing the techniques?

When I flip, the rear grip of the rod passes to the outside of my forearm and away from my body. When I pitch, the rear grip travels inside of my forearm and towards my body. I'm right handed and hold the rod in my left hand when flipping and pitching, but it's the same even if I am holding the rod in my right hand. Personally, I'm almost 5'8" with an average build. The rear grips (from the butt to the back of the reel seat) on the rods I use for flipping and pitching are 9 3/4" long.

I have one rod that I use for casting, but at times I do some pitching with it, and it has a rear grip that is 10 1/4" long. That is the absolute max length I can use and get away with. But the 9 3/4" length is my sweet spot. The 9 3/4" length will clear any clothes that I may have to wear at any time of the year. That includes rain gear and heavier winter clothing that I may have to wear. Definitely consider what clothing you might have to wear when choosing your grip length.

[apdriver]

Thanks Bassbme. I just wondered what was comfortable for other folks in a handle length. For my casting rods, I like 11” but my frame is a little larger than yours so that makes sense. I will sure get out a few of the rods I pitch with and try them to be sure I get things right. The movement and how the rod is handled is much different between casting and pitching and those differences should be addressed in a technique specific build, for sure. Appreciate the input.

[DrewFlu33]

My main flipping and pitching stick is one I built on the slightly lighter powered version of the blank you're using, the 7108 X ray. I left it full length and haven't regretted it at all. I actually feel like the length helps with accuracy in close quarters when pitching or flipping something heavy as you have more line out of the rod when you make your cast and can more accurately "pendulum" the bait where you want it (like up under a dock), though I'm sure that has to do with casting style. I definitely like the length for laying the wood to one that hits when you're not quite ready for it.

Getting to balance was my biggest worry, but it wasn't bad at all either. This is with no counter weight (aside from the Tatula Type R you can see on it...I have a Zillion XXSL on it now and it balances the same) and a carbon fiber split grip (cork or EVA or a full grip would be heavier and help more with balance). I think the handle length from butt to top of the reel seat is 15 inches, so call it 11" to the top of the grip / bottom of the reel seat. Not bad for a heavy powered 7'10" stick! As little thread and thread finish as you can manage makes a difference!


EDIT note: I'm 6'2" and have long arms (have to get 37" length in dress shirts), for whatever that might be worth.

[apdriver]

That looks like a really nice build, Drew. I bought some full length carbon fiber rear grips (14”) for some salmon rod builds and was amazed at how light weight they were. My plan for this pitch build is to do a custom full length cork and put some rubberized cork accent pieces toward the butt for weight and balance. I appreciate you sharing the pic, build, and your experience and decision leaving it 7’10”. I wanted to start this week but work got in the way but plan on getting to it next week, I hope. I know the action will be a bit different but how many running guides did you use?

[DrewFlu33]

That looks like a really nice build, Drew. I bought some full length carbon fiber rear grips (14”) for some salmon rod builds and was amazed at how light weight they were. My plan for this pitch build is to do a custom full length cork and put some rubberized cork accent pieces toward the butt for weight and balance. I appreciate you sharing the pic, build, and your experience and decision leaving it 7’10”. I wanted to start this week but work got in the way but plan on getting to it next week, I hope. I know the action will be a bit different but how many running guides did you use?

I appreciate the kind words! I'm a big fan of the carbon fiber grips. Super light, transmit vibration well so they are super sensitive, and they are very grippy when wet or dry or hot or cold. I know lots of folks prefer the original cork, so completely understand that.

I'll have to get back to you on the guides. I think it was a choker then 8 runners (plus tip top of course), but I'll let you know for sure. I forgot to mention that I spiraled it, so that probably allowed me to get away with fewer than if I had built it conventional.

[DrewFlu33]

Following up...it is the choker and 8 runners, or 9 runners total plus the tip top depending on how you look at it. Since I spiraled it, I *might* have been able to get away with subtracting a runner if I fiddled around some more, but I landed on a really good static test with the 9 runners and just went with it.

[21XDC]

Andrew builds some of the nicest rods I have seen... And own. Maybe I should have asked for those grips...

[apdriver]

Thanks Drew. I haven’t ventured in to the spiral guide train so it won’t be a fit for me. Just not there yet. May try it one of these days, though. Thank you for your reply. My plan is to dry fit everything to make sure it works and go from there. I’ll post the results when I’m done.

[Bassbme]

apdriver, as this is a rod you plan on using for pitching and punching, I would suggest that you be pretty particular about your line path relative to the blank's curve. Landing fish while punching can put some pretty severe stress on a rod blank. The more closely the line's path follows that of the curve of the blank under load, the better it's going to be for the rod's longevity, and the blank's power will be better utilized. The two rods I use for flipping and pitching (and at times, punching) are 7'2" and 7', respectively. They're conventionally wrapped casting rods and each has 11 guides, plus tip top. 3 double foot LN guides as the reduction train, and 8, 4.5 Fuji L guides as runners.

I'm more than certain most people would consider that way too many guides on those length rods, but they help protect the blank from the kind of high sticking that can take place when landing a fish or trying to get one up out of the weeds. The 7'2" rod is built on a Rainshadow Immortal IMMC72MH blank. One bad ass blank btw .... The other 7' rod is built on an NFC MB 709 IM blank. Yet another bad ass blank. lol

Anyway. I'll sacrifice adding a little bit of weight even in the running portion of the blank, to have the confidence that if and when I put my rod in a bad position while landing a fish, I'm not afraid I'm going to hear it explode.

Just something to think about.