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  1. #1
    Member Stoner's Avatar
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    Rod warranty question

    How does a company determine if a rod that is under warranty was broken from neglect or if it's a craftsmanship issue or other defect? Question came up in a discussion at work and I figured somebody on here could shed some light on it.
    @kennethandmacy
    2004 Triton 196
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  2. Member
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    #2
    I talked with Falcon rods about this. They told me a rod will usually break early on if it is a manufacture or material problem.

  3. Member
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    #3
    I talked with Falcon rods about this. They told me a rod will usually break early on if it is a manufacture or material problem. If a rod was fairly new they covered it but older then they would give me a discount. They said it was hard to tell unless you could see something like being crushed

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    #4
    St. Criox has preety much always took my word for it.
    Don Blume

    2018 Ranger Z520C
    2018 Mercury 250 Pro XS 2B525775 2-Stroke

    Past Rigs
    2008 Triton Tr186 with Mercury 175 Pro XS
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  5. Member
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    #5
    I had as recent warranty claim with 13 Fishing on our drop shot rod. Basically I had sent them a picture of the two pieces and a close up of the fracture and they responded within a few days with a claim form and instructions how to send a small section to them (6" piece with serial number). It snapped while fighting a smallie right around the third eyelet.

    They have likely seen enough claims and they can tell if it was stepped on, pinched in a rod locker or just failed. In my case they didn't have a direct replacement and offered me an upgrade at ZERO cost. Very pleased with their service and would buy other rods based on that. FYI...I hadn't even registered the original rod.

  6. BBC SPONSOR cidgrad's Avatar
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    #6
    Great question! We get asked this a lot.

    rangerbrent is correct - usually if a blank is defective, it will show very quickly... like first few uses. I don't mean first few trips, I mean like first few casts or first couple fish. Some defects are not really defects, but rods that were damaged in a store or damaged in shipment, but those usually end up coming back on us as a manufacturer. For us, realistically less than 0.1% of rods that make customer hands are defective. This 0.1% includes bad reel seats, locking nuts, grip assemblies, etc - not just blanks. So bad blanks going out is an even lower number.

    What causes blanks to be defective? When a rod is sent in, we look for a variety of things - bad tack spots, flat spots from sanding, delamination of the fibers, trash/backing paper in the fiber layers, etc. Altogether we look for about 6 different things to assess if a blank would have broken due to defective. Rod blanks also "don't go bad". So again, a defect is going to show pretty quickly.

    Defective seats, glue ups, etc can take more time to show - this is primarily why we add some time on the warranty period. Also it's possible a customer could buy a rod and not use for 2 or 3 months (Christmas present in a northern state, etc).

    I can't speak to other companies, but since we build everything in house, our rod blanks are tested 3 times. First time after being rolled, before being built, and then after being built. There are potential things that can happen at each stage so we look for that to ensure a quality product.

    Why do we do all this? Because candidly for us, we have about 4X as much money tied up in a rod compared to a fully built imported rod. We simply can't afford to put out bad rods. It would bankrupt us just on replacements.
    Last edited by cidgrad; 09-29-2020 at 02:57 PM.

  7. Member
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    #7
    I was once told by the owner of a high end rod company (who I'll not name) that his rods were priced at 1.5X what he needed to charge to make money just because the public expects a warranty. So he prices them higher to take into account the number that come back. Don't agree with it but if the public demands a no question warranty, the builder has to do something to accommodate.

    NoCAL
    2004TR-21X/2015 250 ProXS
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  8. Member Texas Larry's Avatar
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by NoCAL View Post
    I was once told by the owner of a high end rod company (who I'll not name) that his rods were priced at 1.5X what he needed to charge to make money just because the public expects a warranty. So he prices them higher to take into account the number that come back. Don't agree with it but if the public demands a no question warranty, the builder has to do something to accommodate.

    NoCAL
    It is the same with any product or service. Warranty is just a cost of doing business for any company. Based on experience, GM or Ford or whomever knows pretty much how much in warranty claims to expect from a certain vehicle and it is built into the cost.

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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by cidgrad View Post
    Great question! We get asked this a lot.

    rangerbrent is correct - usually if a blank is defective, it will show very quickly... like first few uses. I don't mean first few trips, I mean like first few casts or first couple fish. Some defects are not really defects, but rods that were damaged in a store or damaged in shipment, but those usually end up coming back on us as a manufacturer. For us, realistically less than 0.1% of rods that make customer hands are defective. This 0.1% includes bad reel seats, locking nuts, grip assemblies, etc - not just blanks. So bad blanks going out is an even lower number.

    What causes blanks to be defective? When a rod is sent in, we look for a variety of things - bad tack spots, flat spots from sanding, delamination of the fibers, trash/backing paper in the fiber layers, etc. Altogether we look for about 6 different things to assess if a blank would have broken due to defective. Rod blanks also "don't go bad". So again, a defect is going to show pretty quickly.

    Defective seats, glue ups, etc can take more time to show - this is primarily why we add some time on the warranty period. Also it's possible a customer could buy a rod and not use for 2 or 3 months (Christmas present in a northern state, etc).

    I can't speak to other companies, but since we build everything in house, our rod blanks are tested 3 times. First time after being rolled, before being built, and then after being built. There are potential things that can happen at each stage so we look for that to ensure a quality product.

    Why do we do all this? Because candidly for us, we have about 4X as much money tied up in a rod compared to a fully built imported rod. We simply can't afford to put out bad rods. It would bankrupt us just on replacements.
    Very nice input. I only have one ALX rod. But from all of the feed back from ALX on this board. It will not b my last.

  10. Moderator Fishysam's Avatar
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Larry View Post
    It is the same with any product or service. Warranty is just a cost of doing business for any company. Based on experience, GM or Ford or whomever knows pretty much how much in warranty claims to expect from a certain vehicle and it is built into the cost.
    Right, when a 250 and a 300 have the same components as long as it isn't an "r" with oil cooler and such, they cost the same to make but the 300 for 3,000 more, why? To cover the more stressed components from making more hp
    Mercury 250 proxs 2B115089

  11. Member dean c's Avatar
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner View Post
    How does a company determine if a rod that is under warranty was broken from neglect or if it's a craftsmanship issue or other defect? Question came up in a discussion at work and I figured somebody on here could shed some light on it.
    Loomis/Shimano examine the rod microscopically and say they can determine if the failure was from use or defect.

  12. BBC SPONSOR cidgrad's Avatar
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by dean c View Post
    Loomis/Shimano examine the rod microscopically and say they can determine if the failure was from use or defect.
    We do similar. We utilize a 30x jewelers loupe to examine the carbon fiber layers at the site of the break.

  13. Member Stoner's Avatar
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    #13
    Thank you all for the replies, never had this happen to me just always wondered how neglect/defects were determined.
    @kennethandmacy
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    #14
    Like others have said, a defective rod will fail within the first couple uses. A good tell tale sign that I was told by St Croix is if the blank breaks and it’s a clean break, it’s a manufactured defect. If it splinters, then there was some impact damage or mishandling either by the user or in storage at the facility and nearly every time it’s user error or abuse.

    Because people try to take advantage of the companies warranty and don’t tell the whole truth, you end up paying more for a lesser rod. A lifetime warranty rod costs as much as a cheaper rod with a limited warranty, even though they could have the same blanks and components..
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  15. Banned
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    #15
    one time, while fishing under a bridge, I made a cast and slapped the piling with the rod knocking one of the inserts out. I just so happened to hook a good un and while fighting the fish, the line broke at the eye with no insert and when it broke I hit the rod again on the top of the bridge breaking the rod in half. As I sat there in dismay, my lure floats up from the bottom .... hey at least I got my lure back! Then I notice the lure had a defect, a broken lip. So here I was in a triple whammy, I had been using a defective lure with defective line and a defective rod! So you can bet that I will be demanding my money back from all three manufacturers!

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    #16
    Im not in the rod business, but I suspect outside of blatantly obvious abuse, it would be alot more cost effective to send warehouse Johnny to grab another rod and slap a shipping label on it, than to hire CSI techs to do an in depth investigation.

    Especially considering denying a warranty claim will probably cost you even more money in lost sales. To that guy, PLUS everyguy he comes across.