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  1. Member
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    #21
    Its not going to be cheap. I'm changing out. So guess my post on 9/24 was right.

  2. Member
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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by striper joe View Post
    Its not going to be cheap. I'm changing out. So guess my post on 9/24 was right.
    Someone from the Suzuki outboards Facebook page said he busted his lower unit and insurance would pay for a new one. His dealer agreed to order the new 2020 one. Price was around $3000. IF THAT'S TRUE, it's a lot cheaper than I imagined.

  3. Member Bustin' Bass's Avatar
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    #23
    I am running a new 200SS with the 2.0 gear ratio, on a tritoon. 17 prop right now. im close to being efficient. Im at about 5400 rpm. My cav plate is about 2" underwater tho. I plan to raise it up. and see were i can go on rpms.

  4. Member BillS53's Avatar
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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jake520 View Post
    I’m hoping that the new gear ratio doesn’t change the bullet proof toughness of this lower unit. The is existing lower unit is a godsend here in Iowa where I fish on the Mississippi river.
    Agreed

  5. Member
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    #25
    Just confirmed with my dealer. $3k flat, but parts are not available (presumably back ordered).

    Will be looking to get one asap.

  6. Member
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    #26
    I bought a lower unit from Shaver Marine in Pasadena Texas, they had one in stock.

    I'll be installing hopefully sometime this coming week. Both Mark Croxton and Powertech told me to try my 27p Razor XL as a starting point. Most likely it'll be too much prop but I could be pleasantly surprised.

    Will report back with results. My current top speed is 57 mph in ideal conditions.

  7. Member
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    #27
    th365thli Looking forward to hearing your new numbers

  8. Member
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    #28
    Unfortunately it wasn't as much as I wanted.

    I tested a Powertech RK3 25 pitch (supposedly a Raker/Tempest clone) today with the new lower unit. It was too high of a pitch. I was getting 60mph at 5531 rpms, good for about 9 percent slip. That's about a 3-4 mph increase from the previous lower unit, not the 8 mph increase I was hoping for.

    I need to drop down in pitch and gains some rpms. The slip number is pretty decent, but for the health of the engine I need to go up a bit. There may be a possibility to squeeze a couple more mph, maybe through a prop that the motor likes better. I had a Solas Scorpion 25 pitch coming in but I'm going to return that and get a 23 pitch Scorpion. Possibly try a Mark Croxton Razor XL again, but would need to talk to him first.

    Talking to Doss Marine, the problem with the engine is that the torque curve falls off before max WOT rpms, that's why it can't turn a higher pitched prop to get to 65+ mph. I think it's a problem with the design of the DF200SS. It's a tuned up 150SS as opposed to a tuned down 250SS (it should've been this). I think people need to be aware of this before comparing with a SHO or Pro XS.

    If I squeeze out anymore speed I either have to live with the top end or think about repowering. That might not be the best move anyways, since I know Suzuki's are very reliable.

  9. Member JoePA's Avatar
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    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by th365thli View Post
    Unfortunately it wasn't as much as I wanted.

    I tested a Powertech RK3 25 pitch (supposedly a Raker/Tempest clone) today with the new lower unit. It was too high of a pitch. I was getting 60mph at 5531 rpms, good for about 9 percent slip. That's about a 3-4 mph increase from the previous lower unit, not the 8 mph increase I was hoping for.

    I need to drop down in pitch and gains some rpms. The slip number is pretty decent, but for the health of the engine I need to go up a bit. There may be a possibility to squeeze a couple more mph, maybe through a prop that the motor likes better. I had a Solas Scorpion 25 pitch coming in but I'm going to return that and get a 23 pitch Scorpion. Possibly try a Mark Croxton Razor XL again, but would need to talk to him first.

    Talking to Doss Marine, the problem with the engine is that the torque curve falls off before max WOT rpms, that's why it can't turn a higher pitched prop to get to 65+ mph. I think it's a problem with the design of the DF200SS. It's a tuned up 150SS as opposed to a tuned down 250SS (it should've been this). I think people need to be aware of this before comparing with a SHO or Pro XS.

    If I squeeze out anymore speed I either have to live with the top end or think about repowering. That might not be the best move anyways, since I know Suzuki's are very reliable.
    What is the RPM on the 200 that they want you to shoot for....6100? I would think that if you can get the boat out of the hole OK with the 200 with a prop that is too big then once you get it dialed in, the boat should run well for you. I've run props on my old boat that were only one pitch off and the boat performed horrible but once the correct prop was installed it was night and day.

    I would think that if the 25 RKR had you at 5531 that the 23 Scorpion should get you really close to where you want to be. it may need some final tweaking.
    Joe Galada - Tamaqua, PA
    2004 Ranger 521VX - Yamaha 250 SHO

  10. Member
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    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by JoePA View Post
    What is the RPM on the 200 that they want you to shoot for....6100? I would think that if you can get the boat out of the hole OK with the 200 with a prop that is too big then once you get it dialed in, the boat should run well for you. I've run props on my old boat that were only one pitch off and the boat performed horrible but once the correct prop was installed it was night and day.

    I would think that if the 25 RKR had you at 5531 that the 23 Scorpion should get you really close to where you want to be. it may need some final tweaking.
    Yeah getting out of the hole is no problem, I have lithium batteries and CB hydrofoil. Top speed is my main goal.

    You know, I had a conversation with a fellow with the same motor a month ago, and luckily I went back and looked over the messages and funnily enough he had a similar situation. He tried a Powertech and a Tempest, same pitch and diameter, but the powertech would only turn 5600 while the Tempest turned 6300 (albeit a different Powertech prop). It sounds almost unbelievable but I talked to Croxton today and he said those RK3s are pretty stiff. He said a 25 Tempest would be his first choice, then a 24 Scorpion. Ken from Prop Gods is sending me a 25 Tempest to test out, and I just ordered a 24 Scorpion. Propping is such an inexact science, so I'm hoping that it's just a case of the motor not liking that RK3. I'm not giving up hope just yet. Still plenty of props to try.

  11. Member JoePA's Avatar
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    #31
    If you follow Lanier Props on Facebook you will see how inconsistent the props are right out of the box.

    The engine has no issues getting the boat out of the hole so now its down to what one is going to give you the RPM you need as well as getting bite so you can get your speed.

    Friend just installed a 200SS on his champion so curious to see how his runs and how yours does with the Tempest and Scorpion.
    Joe Galada - Tamaqua, PA
    2004 Ranger 521VX - Yamaha 250 SHO

  12. Member
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    #32
    Quote Originally Posted by JoePA View Post
    If you follow Lanier Props on Facebook you will see how inconsistent the props are right out of the box.

    The engine has no issues getting the boat out of the hole so now its down to what one is going to give you the RPM you need as well as getting bite so you can get your speed.

    Friend just installed a 200SS on his champion so curious to see how his runs and how yours does with the Tempest and Scorpion.

    Doss Marine in SC tried a bunch of props but couldn't break 62 mph. Yet this other user is saying he got 62 easy on 23 Tempest, and was able to turn it up to the rev limiter. I think Doss only tried Suzuki and Yamaha props. It's hard to get straight info.

    It seems like the motor likes a Tempest, but it's almost too farfetched to believe there can be that much of a difference in rpms between a Powertech. I talked to the the guy again and he was pretty adamant he saw 62 at 6300 rpms with a Tempest. Doss was saying that was impossible, tach must be wrong but......these rigs all come with NMEA systems to a C10 gauge.

    I'm getting the Tempest this Thursday hopefully, and the Scorpion Friday. I'm just dying to figure this out! Let me know how your friend's champion does. Is it a 19 footer?

  13. Member JoePA's Avatar
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    #33
    Yes, its a Champion 191 Fish-N-Ski. I have no idea what the setup is right now for prop to pad and what prop the dealer installed but was told it ran pretty good.....whatever that means. When our weather breaks and he breaks the engine in we are going to run a few different props to see what runs best to include a 24 Scorpion.
    Joe Galada - Tamaqua, PA
    2004 Ranger 521VX - Yamaha 250 SHO

  14. Member
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    #34
    Quote Originally Posted by th365thli View Post
    Doss Marine in SC tried a bunch of props but couldn't break 62 mph. Yet this other user is saying he got 62 easy on 23 Tempest, and was able to turn it up to the rev limiter. I think Doss only tried Suzuki and Yamaha props. It's hard to get straight info.

    It seems like the motor likes a Tempest, but it's almost too farfetched to believe there can be that much of a difference in rpms between a Powertech. I talked to the the guy again and he was pretty adamant he saw 62 at 6300 rpms with a Tempest. Doss was saying that was impossible, tach must be wrong but......these rigs all come with NMEA systems to a C10 gauge.

    I'm getting the Tempest this Thursday hopefully, and the Scorpion Friday. I'm just dying to figure this out! Let me know how your friend's champion does. Is it a 19 footer?
    I have never heard of rpm not being correct as reported on the NMEA2000 network. To the contrary, it is the data to reply on rather than analogue instruments.

    The data on C-10etc comes direct from the ecu. Hard to see how it could possibly be wrong.

  15. Member
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    #35
    Quote Originally Posted by JoePA View Post
    Yes, its a Champion 191 Fish-N-Ski. I have no idea what the setup is right now for prop to pad and what prop the dealer installed but was told it ran pretty good.....whatever that means. When our weather breaks and he breaks the engine in we are going to run a few different props to see what runs best to include a 24 Scorpion.
    Would be interested to know if there is any speed difference between a Fish n Ski and a regular bass boat. I would imagine the large windshield and the extra seats would add weight

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonlighter View Post
    I have never heard of rpm not being correct as reported on the NMEA2000 network. To the contrary, it is the data to reply on rather than analogue instruments.

    The data on C-10etc comes direct from the ecu. Hard to see how it could possibly be wrong.
    Yeah I agree. The only other option is he's just straight lying to me. Which also wouldn't make any sense since we were both trying to figure this out together (he also sold his boat last I talked to him).

  16. Member JoePA's Avatar
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    #36
    ""Well, not much better news with the Tempest and Scorpion. I'm beginning to wonder if there might be something wrong with the motor.

    The 25 Tempest only turned 5400 rpms, got 58 mph. The 24 Scorpion was a little stiffer, turned 5300, got 57 mph.

    I'm very surprised the 25 Tempest turned so little, I thought they were more true to pitch. Heck the Powertech RK3 turned a little more.

    I'd have to go down to a 23 Tempest or a 21 Scorpion. Something just seems a little off.""


    Jerry, Do you have a jackplate on your boat? What is your prop to pad measurement?

    Joe Galada - Tamaqua, PA
    2004 Ranger 521VX - Yamaha 250 SHO

  17. Member
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    #37
    I do, I'm not sure, I have a hydraulic jackplate I just go off the numbers. I usually run 4 inches up on the jack plate.

  18. Member JoePA's Avatar
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    #38
    I would find what number is where 3.5 Below the pad is and work from there. See if you can get your hands on a 23 just to see whats what.
    Joe Galada - Tamaqua, PA
    2004 Ranger 521VX - Yamaha 250 SHO

  19. Member
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    #39
    I'm running A 250ss on a Blazer 625 started out with a 27 4 blade Bravo hit Rev limiter with out much touch, went to a 4blade 28 Suzuki prop. Problem solved. its going to take a bigger prop than you think. The Suzuki is a whole new deal on props. If they would just change the lower unit gear ratio. We would be good to go. What kind of speed are you looking for?????? If you are looking for speed, go ahead an change motors. The Suzuki will not run with the Mercury an SHO. ITS all about the gear ratio. My 2cents. Takes a stiff prop. Ill be following this thread.

  20. Member
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    #40
    As I discussed with Jerry, with the 200SS being a straight 4 vice a V6/8 like the Mercury or Yamaha counterparts, you are not going to have the HP/torque with a I4 in the upper RPM band to twist a bigger prop for top end speed like you would with a V6/8. The 250SS might be able to keep up with Mercury or Yamaha if they matched their gear ratio without compromising the strength of their lower unit.
    2018 Bass Cat Lynx w/Suzuki 250SS.

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