1999 Evinrude 225 Ficht Woes Redux M# E225FPXEEO sn#4694771

[Catenary Kid]

First, Here's my engine CV:

4694771_Diagnostics_Identification.jpg

OK guys, after a few hours of attempted diagnostics Here is what I've done and come up with:

I re-ran the compression test, this time wet (with a spritz of fogging oil in each cylinder),with all plugs (except the test hole) installed, all plug wires disconnected and grounded and the throttle wide open. Result: 85# on all cylinders, no deviation at all. I've been told my engine is a 'looper' and they traditionally have low compression, is this true? Most people on this and other forums report significantly more compression 110 - 145#.

I ran a physical spark test on each cylinder separately with a spark tester. All cylinders have spark.

I tested all of the fuses and they are all good.

I tested all of the plug wires for resistance and they run from .676 to .689 depending on length, the longer ones had slightly more resistance.

I placed a piece of dry paper in each cylinder and cranked the engine and all cylinders are getting fuel.

Here's an interesting tidbit. I pulled all the plugs and numbered them then photographed them. They are attached below. As I said in my earlier request for help/guidance/pity these plugs were all gapped at .030 and properly indexed on install. They have less than 20 minutes on them! What could possibly cause the range of conditions between them?

#1.jpg#2.jpg#3.jpg#4.jpg#5.jpg#6.jpg

These are laid out #1, #2, #3 etc.

In case anyone is interested, here is the link to the thread for my original query: http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread....ght=1999+Ficht

If anyone here is thinking: "My God, this guy has no idea what he's doing!" Bingo.

So your assistance is eagerly solicited as there isn't a mechanic within 100 miles with time open for the forseeable future.

[ChampioNman]

those aren't the correct plugs according to the plug chart. the Champion plug number is 7712 which is a QC12PEP there is a optional plug QC10WEP (9005) but you need to change the Thermostats out the the Etec stats 5005440. I don't see any index marks on your plug and the one that has a mark it isn't in the correct place.

[ChampioNman]

Here is how to index them. http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=322878

[suzukidave]

yep great catch

those are plugs for a late 90s johnson carbed v6, not for a late 1990s evinrude ficht motor. you will feel it in the pocketbook when you acquire the correct plugs.

[Huey]

Any carby E/J from the early 1990's to when the J was not made anymore in 2006 use QL78YC plugs-never used these plugs if you wanted the correct plug.

[Team Mud]

Go to "Rock Auto" for the Plugs..............cheapest price I've found

[Catenary Kid]

Gentlemen,

I deeply appreciate your kind offers of advice. For neophytes such as I, it's comforting to know there are professionals out there willing to lend a hand.

First, About 5 years ago I had taken the boat in for routine maintenance, tune up, water pumps, thermostats, etc., and my mechanic suggested I try these plugs as I was having some minor periodic, low speed rough running issues. They worked like a dream. I bought 6 sets of them and have been running them ever since. So I've been using the wrong plugs for almost 5 years with not a hint of trouble - not with the plugs anyhow. As for indexing, I've had this engine for 21 years. I may not have learned much but I know how to index plugs and these are most certainly indexed and they are indexed properly. The indexing doesn't show because of the angle I posed the plugs when I took the pictures. You can't see the numbering on most of them either, but trust me, it's there.

So I guess what I'm hearing is if I go back to the QC12PEP (which I ran for the first 14-15 years I had the boat) all my woes will be over? Can anyone give me any idea why the drastic disparity in plug conditions? Can anyone give me any insight into what would cause the catastrophic loss of power I experience out on the lake? Is 85# sufficient compression to support combustion on this engine? Is there anything in my half-fast diagnostics that would indicate a problem with the EMM?

Again, thanks in advance...

(I'm adding this as an afterthought) It is important that everyone understand I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I think it's critical that we work with accurate, factual information. It's reasonable that I'm using the wrong plugs, I relied on the advice of a professional and that could be a problem. But it is not possible that the plugs are not properly indexed, so let's take that off the table. For me, this is a very frustrating, time consuming process and winter's coming.

[ChampioNman]

So the plugs you posted on your original post are from 15 years ago? And the "Gold" plugs what you have been running for the past 5 years? The "Gold" plugs that are in this current post show that #1 and #4 aren't firing. You need to verify if injector #6 is firing. Compression testers vary by manufactures yours all seem to be all even in pressure.

[suzukidave]

Any carby E/J from the early 1990's to when the J was not made anymore in 2006 use QL78YC plugs-never used these plugs if you wanted the correct plug.

yes sorry, i was not recommending that champion 2412 plug for anything. just trying to identify how they ended up on his motor.

the champion 2412 crosses to an evinrude 439831 which for some reason is (or was) specced for 1997-1998 johnson v6 60 degree motors.

439831 is discontinued and superseded by 5000547 which is the qc12pep plug used on his ficht. so presumably, someone mistakenly thought that the older part number was forward compatible to a qc12pep.

[ChampioNman]

As for indexing, I've had this engine for 21 years. I may not have learned much but I know how to index plugs and these are most certainly indexed and they are indexed properly. The indexing doesn't show because of the angle I posed the plugs when I took the pictures. You can't see the numbering on most of them either, but trust me, it's there.

So I guess what I'm hearing is if I go back to the QC12PEP (which I ran for the first 14-15 years I had the boat) all my woes will be over? Can anyone give me any idea why the drastic disparity in plug conditions? Can anyone give me any insight into what would cause the catastrophic loss of power I experience out on the lake? Is 85# sufficient compression to support combustion on this engine? Is there anything in my half-fast diagnostics that would indicate a problem with the EMM?

Again, thanks in advance...

I see no index mark on this plug and the gap is facing the picture, Same with #1 You tell me where the mark is?

[Catenary Kid]

Championman, I know you are an expert and I'm not trying to dispute your opinion. If you look closely at the picture, you will see the open portion of the contact (gap) is pointing directly at the top of the photo frame. Not at you. 90* to the top of the frame from you. If you look hard, you will see there is a very small slice of my index mark visible on the porcelain at the very top of the plug photo. It is exactly in line with the opening of the plug right where the spark would catch the incoming fuel plume.

Here's an idea: why don't i pull those plugs tomorrow afternoon and photo them with both the index mark and the plug opening pointing directly at you. I photoed them the way I did so you could see the condition of the plugs more than the index mark and it's relation to the gap.

[Nordmann]

Sorry guys, you did not give OP the answer he wanted, so now he has posted on THT, probably hoping they will give the answer he is looking for.

[ChampioNman]

Sorry guys, you did not give OP the answer he wanted, so now he has posted on THT, probably hoping they will give the answer he is looking for.

They can have him. He'll get more info there then he'll ever need. He completely missed the point on two of the plugs not firing and the use of the incorrect plugs as well. Best of luck to him.

[omcforever]

Looked at his post over there....looking for the answer he wants,,not what he needs. He also left out a few tidbits of key info as well...

[mactlman]

i see the black mark on the gold plug but have never seen plugs for my ficht be gold????

[suzukidave]

catenary man, if you want to fix this start over. install and properly # and index the original plugs you showed in the first photo in the first thread, and triple check all your connections are correct using a wiring diagram and also that they are made good.

think of this as forensics and you have been stepping all over the crime scene. you started with what appeared to be a single down cylinder that didn't follow the spark plug. no idea why you thought a new set of plugs and repeating the same tests would help, but all you have done is multiply and confuse the problem.

if you can return to original and find yourself still with a single problem persistently on that cylinder, and if you have proven that switching out plugs, plugs leads and coils does not make the problem move, then you are left with a bad cylinder, a bad injector, bad wiring upstream from your coil but isolated to the feed for that cylinder, or an emm issue.

you can eliminate the injector by swapping injectors and testing at idle.
you can go further on checking the bad cylinder option with a leakdown test and a borescope inspection
you can troubleshoot the wiring and emm using the factory service manual

but first you have to get back to where you were with only the one problem. for now, you are nowhere

[Bassmeister]

Looked at his post over there....looking for the answer he wants,,not what he needs. He also left out a few tidbits of key info as well...

Did they boot him for having a freshwater boat?? Never saw his post.....

[omcforever]

Did they boot him for having a freshwater boat?? Never saw his post.....

It was there around 10 am,,,,left out some key details....LOL

[omcforever]

Just checked...its gone. Poof!

[ChampioNman]

Just checked...its gone. Poof!

Shocker.