What to do now ......

[Royt]

Too bad y'all don't get paid from Garmin by the hour for all this R&D.

If they really gave a toot they would have sent their engineers out there too since they can't duplicate the prob.

MonteSS,
I have to agree with you! First time in a long time Don has been here on this lake. He was able to replicate the problem on his unit the very 1st brushpile he went to. His 2nd picture really shows the void area we are trying to deal with.
Come on Garmin send someone this way. We can show you in person what this issue is allot better than any video or screenshot can!

[MikeF]

First time in a long time Don has been here on this lake. He was able to replicate the problem on his unit the very 1st brushpile he went to.

Obviously, it must be something about those Virginia brush piles causing the issues.

[PMantle]

Don,I could see it on the pictures you sent me,I think more people has that problem than we think, just they do not know it,one reason is that is only one they had and don't know the difference ,2 is style of fishing they do,3 do not fish enough to know difference

You make a good point. When I am fishing, I am so focused on the area 10' and in, I would never notice a dead spot like those in the blue pics. I never even have my range that far unless I am searching. When I find a top, I switch back to short range.

[Royt]

Obviously, it must be something about those Virginia brush piles causing the issues.

MikeF, by golly I think you have found the problem!!!

[LWINCHESTER2]

The left side is v2.00 original as came on the GLS10. The right side of the screen is the v2.41
When four jigs were used the top two are 1/16oz and the bottom two are 1/32oz. There are 4 jigs even if you only see three. When seven jigs were used all were 1/8oz. There are no snaps. Jigs tied directly to line.


I alternated which transducer was connected to each GLS10. One was mounted on the torpedo and is named FOOT32 onscreen. The other is up on the shaft and it's named Shaft32. Only the right side shows the name so the left side is whichever one the right side is not. Since there can be a difference in transducers I switched the transducers back and forth on the boxes but maintained proper identification. Both transducers are canted. A lot of the videos have NR and TVG off. I think those settings give a better representation of what the transducer can see. Filtering can hide both unwanted and wanted returns. So you'll have to tolerate ghost trees.


As you'll see there is quiet a bit of interference.


The significance of the file names.
Jx x is the number of jigs, either 4 or 7
G?? Gain 60, 70 or automedium (am)
NR??? off, low or medium
TVG ??? off or low
ShaftFoot or FootShaft. Left to right on screen of which transducer was used.
When I focused on a specific range I included that range in the filename.


I'm lazy. The easiest way for me to share these videos is to link them in my Google Drive. Here is the link.
There are 16 videos. You may want to look at them or may not.


https://tinyurl.com/v200andv241


Some of you may have requests for additional comparisons. I'm not doing that. I borrowed the box today and returned it today. I am paranoid about borrowing stuff. Usually when I borrow something I end up having to buy it. This guy fishes too and done me a favor loaning me his box. Good or bad, as they say it is what it is. Also, I am not including any interpretation. Judge for yourself.

[BASStard6344]

Wow lots of work right there. Thank you for that. Lots of great information right there.
Also looks like your water had a bad case of gas

[Kulibin]

The left side is v2.00 original as came on the GLS10. The right side of the screen is the v2.41
When four jigs were used the top two are 1/16oz and the bottom two are 1/32oz. There are 4 jigs even if you only see three. When seven jigs were used all were 1/8oz. There are no snaps. Jigs tied directly to line.


I alternated which transducer was connected to each GLS10. One was mounted on the torpedo and is named FOOT32 onscreen. The other is up on the shaft and it's named Shaft32. Only the right side shows the name so the left side is whichever one the right side is not. Since there can be a difference in transducers I switched the transducers back and forth on the boxes but maintained proper identification. Both transducers are canted. A lot of the videos have NR and TVG off. I think those settings give a better representation of what the transducer can see. Filtering can hide both unwanted and wanted returns. So you'll have to tolerate ghost trees.


As you'll see there is quiet a bit of interference.


The significance of the file names.
Jx x is the number of jigs, either 4 or 7
G?? Gain 60, 70 or automedium (am)
NR??? off, low or medium
TVG ??? off or low
ShaftFoot or FootShaft. Left to right on screen of which transducer was used.
When I focused on a specific range I included that range in the filename.


I'm lazy. The easiest way for me to share these videos is to link them in my Google Drive. Here is the link.
There are 16 videos. You may want to look at them or may not.


https://tinyurl.com/v200andv241


Some of you may have requests for additional comparisons. I'm not doing that. I borrowed the box today and returned it today. I am paranoid about borrowing stuff. Usually when I borrow something I end up having to buy it. This guy fishes too and done me a favor loaning me his box. Good or bad, as they say it is what it is. Also, I am not including any interpretation. Judge for yourself.

Thank you so much!
There is no difference in the picture ...

[DonnieG]

Leonard, thanks for your time & effort in putting together these very interesting videos'. I watched them all but someone that knows a lot more than me can comment.

[Royt]

Leonard, thanks for doing this. I know it was allot of work!
Unfortunately what you are trying to show does not match up to my lake conditions from what I can tell. I only watched a couple of the video, my internet is really SLOW!
I don't have much of a problem when I'm in 20 fow or less. Most places here in that depth have a soft bottom.
Where I do have a major problem is in 20 to 30 row over a hard clay or rock bottom. And with a large solid object like a brushpile.
I don't have an issue fishing up high in the water column in water with a depth of 30 to 60 fow. I'm usually fishing 15 feet or less deep then.
I understand about borrowing someone's stuff, I'm not comfortable doing this either. Sure wish that I could find an old original black box like that to test for a period of time.
But I think the short test that I did with Gene's black box showed a HUGE difference in returns than my current black box rolled back to pre Perspective View software.
Now if someone, somehow could just convince Garmin to pay me a visit I can show them "LIVE" what my issues are that I didn't have before the Perspective View software update.
I guess for now I'm just supposed to sit and wait and hope a Garmin Engineer reviews my issue and then come up with a fix for it.
I'm not holding my breath. My direct contact with Garmin seems to no longer even respond to my emails and the recent videos that I sent him using Gene's black box. I guess my "case" has been passed on to someone else and I don't have their contact information.

[Genec]

Roy,I know your feeling for the style and lake we fish,the last tournament I fish in June i wanted to throw unit in lake,I could not even see the tree in the water and had no backup unit for front, it may be hard to believe but my last unit was the worst one i ever saw, glad I got one now much better, oh I know it was in the box because I tried the new box a few weeks with old ducer before I put new ducer on boat which was the same

[Royt]

Some say they have the issue but it is not a problem for them, just fish around it.
Yeah, right. So how would those same people feel if they bought a big screen HDTV for around $4,000. Enjoyed it for a year. Told all your friends how great it was. Then the manufacturer offered a free upgrade to your tv. Sure you said, why not. You installed the free upgrade and immediately had problems. The manufacturer admitted the free software upgrade has issues and sent out several new software updates to help correct these issues. It helped some people but not you. The manufacture even sent you new stuff to fix your issue but it didn't help. You have this huge smear (void) area that arches right across the middle of your tv screen. Just look around it some say. Look how great your picture looks outside of the smeared area some say. I don't guess too many people would be happy with that. I'm not. And now I'm just to patiently wait for the manufacturer to hopefully get back to me someday.
Does this sound right?

[LWINCHESTER2]

I think a big part of the difficulty of getting a handle on weak and dead spots is related to the varying ways, circumstances, terrain, shapes, depths and ranges that the ghost tree exhibits itself. Here are some examples. In each case the amount of sonar reflected would vary depending on the characteristics of the target. The desired target would have to have more reflectivity than the ghost tree interference. Underwater brush doesn't always reflect well. I have pulled up sticks that were an inch in diameter that never showed on 2d sonar. In these videos there were even times that the 1/8oz jig didn't show up and we need much smaller ones to show up well within these ranges.

https://tinyurl.com/LVSghosttrees

[D Johnson]

Does someone sell just the black box and I don't want to move the one I have back and forth between my bass boat and saltwater boat. Called HB CS and they said no I had to buy a whole unit. Don

[Royt]

Does someone sell just the black box and I don't want to move the one I have back and forth between my bass boat and saltwater boat. Called HB CS and they said no I had to buy a whole unit. Don

I found one here pretty quick.

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/682121

[fishin couillon]

BBG Marine has just the box on their website.

https://bbgmarine.com/garmin-gls-10-sonar-module/

[D Johnson]

Thanks everyone. I just quit looking after Garmin told me I couldn't get just the box. Don

[Ron H 520]

I’ve just seen LiveScope once, fishing out of a boat other than mine. It was great, but I asked him what a particular return was, and he said it was a ghost tree, just have to live with it. I thought that was strange for a sonar product, but I know little about them. I’ve been considering purchasing one is why I’m on this site, and came across the “dead spot” issue after upgrades. Very odd, to say the least. I feel for you guys going through this, I would be frustrated also. When I was shown it in action, it was mind blowing what you could see. Hope it works out for everyone.

[LWINCHESTER2]

Every sonar application has its advantages. Those advantages are what make people buy them. For LiveScope, those advantages include, live view, knowing distance and depth, seeing closer to the bottom and ease of use. The ghost trees, delicate pointing and weak/dead areas are limitations. 2d and down imaging on irregular or sloping terrain have a serious dead spot close to the bottom; the more irregular or the steeper the incline, the worse it gets. Side imaging has been very useful but a fish 40 ft away near the surface, another 40 feet away mid depth and another 40 feet away near the bottom will all three be shown in a tight cluster. The challenge is to find how and when to make the best use of each.

[Royt]

For me Livescope was the cat's meow. Now it is still great and helpful but at the same time very frustrating. If I never had used it for around a year before.this issue came up I would be very happy. Having seen how it used to look and then just last week seeing how my setup performed with Gene's black box I don't know anybody who would say that they are still happy.
When this is all said and done I expect Garmin to come out with Livescope version 2.0 with a separate transducer for Perspective View and then be able to fix this issue with forward view.

[LWINCHESTER2]

It's hard to say what Garmin will debut next and even harder to guess when. There's really no competitive pressure on them right now. When you look at the individual capabilities of what they have already introduced, PS30, PS31, PS22, LVS32 (down, forward, perspective), they already have in inventory the knowhow for some new variations. I feel sure there will be a LVS-G2 and that they've already designed it. Unless some competitive pressure shows up, we'll be waiting for LVS sales to dry up. That's going to take a while. Sales around here have been wild.