It's tough to do for the guys that use a certain style of rod or spyder rig. Mine is so wide and in a location that single pole crappie fishing or drop shotting for bass is useless. Before the update it was not an issue so why should I have to change?Originally Posted by MonteSS
I'm a little late getting out to the lake this morning but saw this and thought I would comment. I disagree, but I'm trying to be constructive. One key to solving a problem is replication. Engineers have to be able to replicate a problem to analyze and correct it. So if it is so widespread and that one problem is that users have to be taught how to find it, give us the particulars. What size jig? What type of bottom? At what range and depth do we suspend this jig under a floating bottle? Then we move back from it we will NOT be able to see it on LiveScope because it is in the dead spot. I bet I've tried this at least 50 times with a 1/8 oz jig but maybe the bottom was too hard or too soft or the water is different. Or maybe it has to be a 1/32 or 1/64 oz jig. And if we move this setup out to deeper water is the dead spot at the same location or does it move? If it in a fixed location or a location relative to the bottom? Is it just near the bottom or does it reach all the way to the surface? Garmin has said that the "weak area" range is relative to the depth.
My wife asks if I'm going to fish every day. I can't fish every day. Some days I might be sick.
Leonard, thanks for your confirmation of my issue, I really appreciate your opinion and knowledge. I know my lake and the conditions that I fish in are way different than yours but I appreciate your honesty!
Pfisher is 100% spot on with his comments, especially in regards to the crappie fishing community. This is a wide spread issue. Once you really see and identify the issue it is hard to unsee. Like he said, watch some of the newer YouTube videos, it's there and most think it is normal. It's not!
Leonard, you've probably already done this, but can you share your settings? Last weekend was first time out and still trying to find a good baseline to start with? Thx
My electronics guy had sent them numerous videos from at least four different boats. He talked to one engineer that tried to explain it away while looking at a video he had sent. His latest video comes from an install he did this week and he tells every person he installs for the situation so they don't think it's and install issue. He has done mounts on the TM shaft, fixed mounts and pole mounts with the same results. He lake tests every install and hasn't seen one yet without the dead spot.
I employ enough programmers to know they don't like to think they are wrong about anything, even with the evidence staring them in the face ..... lol
To answer your questions mine is noticeable from a 1/32 oz jig to a mega flutter spoon and from a 3 inch fish to a 6 lb fish. It's a very consistent spot from about 5ft to 10 ft in range and it makes no difference, so far, with bottom composition or water conditions. I do know folks that the dead spot is at a different range but everything else is relevant to their install.
He and others have posted them multiple times. It's really beside the point isn't it? Most posting here with issues are experienced users and have posted multiple times that this started happening with the perspective update. We have also stated, multiple times, that LS has always been very good without multiple adjustments. Heck I didn't even know there are pages of adjustments before all of this BS. I changed gain and range on screen and that's all I needed to do.
Garmin is very good at not fixing issues. I got sucked into the Garmin vortex when they first came to freshwater because of saltwater experiences. Once I figured out the Si/Di was a 12 on a 1-10 scale of terrible I called them. They kept promising a "fix" until, a year later I went with another brand. Jump ahead a few years to UHD and now it's a 9-10 on the same scale compared to the others and they are still telling folks I know a software fix is coming. I'm predicting the same thing with this issue since it's still pretty amazing technology and they are large enough that losing a few customers doesn't matter much.
So going off the assumption that something could have changed in garmins production. Possibly all new units/transducers have this issue? If you bought a new setup most people may think its just normal if they never knew any better. What you really need is a known good working system to start swapping stuff. Obviously first you would verify the entire system works as it should. Then start swapping in your non-working hardware in the exact same configuration.
I bought the $100 perspective mount this spring. Still toO scared to update until there is a resolution on this.
PFisher, I wasn't asking you. Besides the point, not to me. Like I said, been out 1 time and looking for some help and yes seen a few of the posts, but would like to duplicate his settings next time out. Don't see your POINT for your response. If he wants to post them or send them to me, that's his call.
The LS is fairly easy to set up in most conditions. But all waters are different.
Gain auto med
TVG off or low
noise med
depth I use auto. Others set it to depth they are in.
Distance I use 40-50'
Palette stick to amber or blue.
Does someone have a Livescope system that does not have this issue they can loan me to test? :)
The Garmin tech who I've been working closely with says he does but he can't send it to me.
I've really been pushing Garmin for a visit from one of their engineers or service techs to come out with me on my boat and troubleshoot my system. So far no luck.
I wonder what software version the Garmin tech has. I am sure he doesn't want to part with it. I wish I were close to you, because I have version 2.00 that I got this spring that I refuse to upgrade after seeing all there problems 2.33, and 2.41 have brought upon many. It would be interesting to see someone close to you that has a version 2.00 or 2.20 that hasn't been force reloaded, and what it would look like on your boat under your conditions.
Roy: I agree that Garmin should send one of their experts to come and get in the boat with you and see it first hand. Short of that, we need a way to artifically replicate this in a way that anyone, anywhere could do the same thing and see the same results.
pfisher: Thank you. Roy's depth on his videos ranges from 20-24 ft. You never mentioned depth but I can go by his. I know you fish pretty shallow so I'll check that depth and shallower. I can use a combo screen with 2d that can be used to get an idea of bottom hardness at the time. Royt video showed the dead spot to be 10-20. So I'll try to be thorough from 0-30.
I think it's inaccurate and close to insulting to say everybody has this if they just knew what they were looking at. But you could be right. Maybe I just don't know any better. It reminds me of hearing a teacher argueing with a principal over how to teach and stating that they had 30 years experience. He answered, "No you don't. You have one year experience 30 times". I fish a lot, not every day but almost. A lot of it is repetitious. And as you know, I am slow to accept anyones claims without good evidence.
8upwithfishin': MonteSS's settings are good. When fishing shallow (<60 ft) I used to start out:
Gain-auto medium
TVG Low
Noise Rejection Medium
Palette Blue
Apparently I can tolerage a messier screen than most. Now, I use as little TVG and Noise Rejection as I can stand to look at. I start will both OFF but usually end up at MonteSS's settings for crappie and bass.
Range is something I vary a lot according to the situation. I have a 16" screen so when I am in open water, like today, I'll run it at 120 when searching. I try to get within 30-40 ft to cast and then I move it back to 70. It depends on your screen size and how much detail you want to see. When I was using a 9" screen I would search using 70 ft and then move it back to 50 when I started casting.
Depth is nearly always manual according to what I am targetting. For my crappie in winter I'll have to use 40 or 50 depending on the depth I find them. If they are consistently at 20 ft or less I'll set the depth to 30. Our spotted bass right now could be anywhere from 0-60 ft and a pod of them will move up and down that much while I am targetting them. My walleye now are generally around 80 ft so I set the depth to 100. That's pushing LiveScope to it's limits. For the walleye at that depth I run manual gain starting at 75. I ignore the mess. I'm not confident of seeing them at 90 ft unless the gain is at least 75.
Last edited by LWINCHESTER2; 09-19-2020 at 04:23 PM.
My wife asks if I'm going to fish every day. I can't fish every day. Some days I might be sick.
I was out about a month or so ago with a friend that has an older system that has never been updated. I believe but not postive that it was 2.20. We were on his boat. We scanned the same brushpiles that I'm testing on. Zero dead spots or ghost tree issues. He has a GPS series unit.
I really hate to ask him to let me borrow and test using his black box. And what if that really is the issue, I've shown that just doing a forced rollback didn't fix my problem and Garmin isn't going to send me an old black box with 2.20 software. I'll go out with my friend again soon and shoot a video from his boat on the same brush.
I really appreciate the info MonteSS and Leonard. I only get to get out a several times a month so will be taking a crash course.....when I know it takes time on the water.
I hope this works out for you. I'd really like to know how it performs. I've run v2.41 and v2.20 side by side until I'm sick of it. Saw very little difference. If you see a difference, that will be a revelation. I do see small differences in transducers. The so called "artifacts" will have minor variations. My v2.20 was a forced backup but I don't think there is any difference between the original v2.20 and a forced backup to v2.20. It just don't add up to me that remnants of a later version would be hanging around. If they did it would almost certainly brick the system. A complete selfcontained functioning module would have to remain. Also if going back left remnants how would you have any confidence that a normal update going to a newer version didn't leave remnants of the older version. Yes I do know of exceptions as I was a programmer myself in another life, but the exceptions were not application software. The reason Garmin's updates are so huge is that they are comprehensive. Everything connected gets updated or rolled back; unit, sonar module, radar, nmea stuff, media, gps, whatever.
My wife asks if I'm going to fish every day. I can't fish every day. Some days I might be sick.
Leonard, great responses!
Now if only someone at Garmin would see this and agree with you and send someone one my way. I do believe that many under the same lake conditions as I'm fishing in will have the same issue that I'm having but not everyone's will be as obvious as mine. I hope that I'm wrong.
I'm by no means very knowledgeable about how software works but I'm 100% confidence in saying that I didnt have these issues to this degree before installing the original Perspective View software update. I've now done a forced update and the issue is still there but over all my images are clearer than with 2.41 IMO. Why is this, I really don't know but know what I see.
Thanks everyone for the responses, even the ones I don't like! :)
A lot of us do.
Because we have seen how much better it can be!
ive had the same problem. Garmin changed out black box but still I have ghost tree with dead spot. Like you, when I purchased mine in oct 2018, thing worked great. I used a 93sv. With the updates and with 122sv, it’s worst. Fished last Thursday and it was almost useless. I turned unit on and off a couple of times and it help some but not a lot. Wish Garmin would have given the option of leaving off the perspective mode.
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not wanting to argue point, but I specifically talked to Garmin engineer. They ask but don’t replicate the way we use them. They put it in their boat and it’s not same depth, if the bottom is rock or mud, or clarity If water. They sent me the video and it was in like 25’ of water. Yes it didn’t show ghost teee but I never fish 25’ deep. I would live for them to come get into boat with me.
2021 Phoenix 21PHX
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