About 2 volts and now it’s rock steady even when I start the engine. No interference. No offense to the guys offering this other harness here but it seems way overpriced. Literally none of the other wiring on my boat is “waterproof”.Originally Posted by 20basstriton
Last edited by DoctorJJ; 09-17-2020 at 10:03 PM.
2022 Ranger Z520R, 2022 Mercury 250 ProXS 4s
Dual 16” Lowrance Live’s at console, 12” Live with Active Target, Garmin 8612 and Livescope, and Humminbird 12” Mega 360 at the bow
Lowrance Ghost TM
Running a 521C with the Batteries Plus X2 G31 and having BAD issues with voltage drop on Bow and Console Units. Followed Tommy’s advice on here (BBC search) and added a dedicated Blue Sea Fuse Block and 10g wire for Units. One hour, less than $60 and all problems are solved. If you are having issues, this is a quick, cheap and easy solve!
Which is a common issue in boats. It is extremely important to have water tight connection points to avoid corrosion. Utilizing non insulated connectors and or posi-lock connectors will lead to a compromised power source I can assure you. Have been involved with DC voltage long enough to see it happen time and time again. Which is why we came up with a 100% waterproof solution to avoid this exact issue. As for your pricing comment I will disagree as our Harness starts at $150 and goes up to $350 which is technically under the range of the competitors. Additionally our solution is true dedicated power versus a shared system like competitors. True dedicated power is extremely important for proper fuse protection and to truly eliminate voltage drop. Just my .02
SeaClear is $200 and I run 5 units on it. Your 4 unit system is $350?? I can make the connections waterproof for about $0.10. Be super easy to shrink tube over the posilocks. Or just solder and shrink tube myself. I can see that your product is a great product. The system I installed is a dedicated system.
2022 Ranger Z520R, 2022 Mercury 250 ProXS 4s
Dual 16” Lowrance Live’s at console, 12” Live with Active Target, Garmin 8612 and Livescope, and Humminbird 12” Mega 360 at the bow
Lowrance Ghost TM
I think I'll just build my own and have less the $100 in it. Seems simple enough.
Interesting hearing everyone’s response on this issue and it sounds like it definitely helps but it really sounds like it comes down to a solid connection free of corrosion more than running oversized wire. Obviously running 20 gauge wire isn’t a smart idea and guys running 3 graphs pulling over 10+ amps was also surprising so I could see using a minimum of 12, so I guess why not go with 10 gauge. I didn’t realize these new units used that much juice.
One question for the guys running Garmin Livescope. I believe one poster said Garmin recommends running 10 gauge wire. My question is what gauge wire is the wire or cable supplied by Garmin going to the unit? I would bet it’s not 10 gauge wire. Minnkota does the same thing. I have a Fortrex and believe I ran 6 gauge when I installed it I. I believe Minnkota recommended a 50 amp breaker yet the wire going to the unit supplied by Minnkota is 10 gauge which is not rated for 50 amps. Seems silly when they recommend you to use such a large gauge wire yet they undersize the wire going to their units.
But if crimped, then soldered; best of both worlds! I can’t tell you how many crimped fail connectors I had to fix over the past week! Mechanical locked terminals are prone to fail when exposed to continuous vibrations. That is why we don’t just crimp on aircraft connectors. A failure could mean life or death! The same could be said when one is stuck on their boat with no one to help when the cell phone has no service
Frank
i agree that most of the issues are bad connections-multiple connections not wire size. If they ran dedicated 10-12 or even 14 awd for their graphs it would solve the voltage drop issues.
The reason the manufacturers can get away with undersizing wiring is because they just use what is necessary to pass ul listing. Pretty common to see a light fixture that requires 12 awg to have internal wiring that is much smaller.
2020 Nitro Z20 Pro Package
Many would disagree. Soldering can degrade a crimp and is unnecessary.But if crimped, then soldered; best of both worlds! I can’t tell you how many crimped fail connectors I had to fix over the past week! Mechanical locked terminals are prone to fail when exposed to continuous vibrations. That is why we don’t just crimp on aircraft connectors. A failure could mean life or death! The same could be said when one is stuck on their boat with no one to help when the cell phone has no service
Frank
1994 201 Champ re-powered with a 250 HO G2 E250LHAFA 05438419
How so?
Frank
This is from Marine How To...
Crimp vs. Solder
This discussion has been beat around the net more than a tennis ball. I think the best statement on soldering a crimped terminal comes from the Senior Product Engineer Tom Michielutti at AMP.
AMP is one of the most widely respected suppliers of crimp terminations to the US Aerospace and military sectors. Below is the statement from the senior engineer at AMP. These are NOT MY WORDS.
Begin Quote:
“Subject: Soldering Crimped Connections & Solder in Crimps
This subject is discussed in AMP’s internal “Fundamentals of Connector Design” course.
Soldering Crimped Connections
In the minds of some customers, fortunately a diminishing minority, the reliability of crimped connections can be improved by soldering. In fact, soldering can degrade the performance of properly crimped connections. Such degradation can arise from the effects of soldering temperatures, the potential corrosion from improper cleaning of soldering fluxes and the effects of solder wicking on the conductors. Solder wicking causes the multi-strand conductors, which have high flexibility and stability against vibration, to become, effectively, solid which degrades both the performance characteristics mentioned. For these reasons, soldering of crimped connections is not recommended.
Should Solder be Used in Crimps?
Crimps are designed to work without solder or solder-dipped wires. Solder present in a crimp changes the deformation, metal flow, cleaning, welding, and residual force characteristics designed into the crimp.
Soldering would be an additional heat producing assembly step. Test results show that soldering or solder-dipping wires before crimping does not produce a termination superior to that obtained in a properly applied crimped termination. Some tests specifically show detrimental effects due to soldering or solder-dipping (e.g. soldered crimp terminations can lose some ability to withstand vibrations and flexing, due to solder embrittlement of the copper wire, and/or due to solder wicking up the strand of stranded wire to form a short length of solid conductor near the termination).
The terminated conductor then does not have the flexure strength characteristic of strand wire, and should behave more like solid wire which fails quickly in flexure testing.”
The above is a direct quote from AMP/Tyco/TE Connectivity.
https://marinehowto.com/marine-wire-termination/
1994 201 Champ re-powered with a 250 HO G2 E250LHAFA 05438419
While I respect his position; I respectfully disagree as also a professional in the field. His opinion would never fly in any industry requiring ISO reliability! He and I are just two opinions. I can show you what happens under the console of a boat with just crimps and no other means of securing the joint. I also know what happens to electronics in a wet high vibration environment when electrical joints are not bonded by other means other than a mechanical swedge. The author’s points against soldering have been taken into consideration by engineers in developing new solders, flux materials, and the like. His thoughts have been surpassed by proven bonding techniques.
I would never advise just crimping an electrical bond in any sensitive electronics environment; never!
Frank
Soldering is not recommended in any application where vibration is involved.But if crimped, then soldered; best of both worlds! I can’t tell you how many crimped fail connectors I had to fix over the past week! Mechanical locked terminals are prone to fail when exposed to continuous vibrations. That is why we don’t just crimp on aircraft connectors. A failure could mean life or death! The same could be said when one is stuck on their boat with no one to help when the cell phone has no service
Frank
The automotive industry has leaned away from soldering for quite some time.
In the airplane industry, soldering is against regulations.
The vibration of a soldiered joint can cause cracking and wire damage.
The best connections are using waterproof connectors and shrink tube.
The waterproof connectors have a glue inside and when heated the glue adheres to the wire. I also use the shrink tube with the glue inside.
What about all the computers on vehicle, plane or boat all those have soldiered joints but they are manufactured in a controlled environment with the proper heat and an extremely clean joint. I’m guessing the reason for not soldering every connection in a boat or vehicle is to eliminate human error. A quality crimp tool and the proper crimp take the error factor out if the equation. Proper crimps make a difference as well. Boat manufacturers use the cheapest crimps they can get. The high temp crimps are much better but they are expensive. Two wires stripped and twisted then properly soldiered with the double wall heat shrink will last longer than a crimp if done correctly in my opinion even with vibration. Never had to repair a soldiered joint on a trailer or boat but replaced plenty of crimps.
It doesn't matter if you crimp, solder, or just twist the wires together. All that matters is you use the right size wire, good clean connections, and use something to waterproof those connections. It's not rocket science, it's just 12 volts.
What are y’all using for a switch on the dedicated electronics wire? I’m thinking about running a 10 ga with the stereo capacitor. My interference is terrible. Running 2-HD9’s an HD 12 and Garmin 9 with livescope. At end of day my graphs will flash on motor start up and just installed a new Interstate Group 31.
2021 Skeeter ZX150
2020 Sea Doo GTI se 170
Just a quick note. I use splices. Good splices not Chinese crap. I slide a piece of heat shrink down the wire, do the crimp, pull test it, then paint it with Liquid Electric Tape. While the LET is still fresh, I slide the heat shrink down over the splice and heat it which causes the L E T to ooze out the end of the splice which waterproofs it and supports the wire for stress relief.
Per the above post I do not see where a large capacitor can hurt the circuit if installed at the bow on the power wires. It can maintain system voltage when starting, and dampen out interference.
I have a twist knob battery cuttoff that is installed just under my back deck lid.
2022 Ranger Z520R, 2022 Mercury 250 ProXS 4s
Dual 16” Lowrance Live’s at console, 12” Live with Active Target, Garmin 8612 and Livescope, and Humminbird 12” Mega 360 at the bow
Lowrance Ghost TM
20200918_102415.jpgI just got back from Sonar Plus in Dawsonville Thursday. I have taken my boat out a couple of times and all the electronics up front are running more than 12 volts instead of 11.4. My DI and 2D are crisper and show more detail. I am still dialing in my Mega 360 however I now have the confidence that it is getting the correct voltage to run at its best. Turned out that my old connections and wires were corroded Trent went through everything and did a great job of installing quality wiring harnesses directly to the battery. Here is an image of some small stripe and bass with my new wiring.
I am glad that I did not buy an expensive lithium battery that would not have solved my problem . I think I will do just fine for my purposes with an AMG now.
Last edited by geodebasser; 09-19-2020 at 09:10 AM.
I made a harness last night. Im going to install it this evening and try it out tomorrow
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