Saw the post about the NRX and adding weight to balance it. When you hold a rod where should it balance, and then with a reel? I like might balance just ahead of the seat... with a reel on it. Never though of adding weight to balance one.
Saw the post about the NRX and adding weight to balance it. When you hold a rod where should it balance, and then with a reel? I like might balance just ahead of the seat... with a reel on it. Never though of adding weight to balance one.
Depends on if it is a tip up or down presentation. Sometimes in front of the reel seat and other times at the reel seat.
Back in the day on the Bass Fishing Home Page website, we had a lot of discussions regarding this and the opinions were split on whether to balance or not. It seemed like most of the experienced rod builders strove to build the lightest rod possible and did not like to add weight. You might already know this but they make handle kits where you can add weights about the size of the quarter so you can add as many as you need, or some guys just take those rubber stoppers that fit on the bottom of chair legs and put them on the end of the handle. I prefer not to add weights.
On your index finger. Grip the rod with reel attached then carefully un-grip the rod with it balancing on your index finger...
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All of my rods that I have built balanced "butt-heavy". I always strive to build the lightest weight rod possible for the application. This usually results in an extremely "tip light" rod because the handle components are always going to be heavier than the guides, thread, and finish. I actually prefer that type of balance because I know that a rod held with the tip upright transmits more to your hand than one held at any other attitude. Obviously, not all baits can be fished in that manner.
Last edited by Hair Jig; 09-07-2020 at 09:37 PM.
The balance should be where you hold the rod.
While that's hard to do sometimes I like to choose a reel that will help balance a rod.
IMO how the rod alone balances doesn't mean a thing. There is a reel on the rod when you use it, so that's the balance point you need to be concerned with. Point of balance, or degree of balance are pretty much personal preference, and for me, really depends on what the rod will be used for. I build my own rods, but the only ones I am concerned about their degree of balance, are the rods I use for tip up, slack and semi slack line techniques.
My personal preference is that they feel tip light, or as Hair Jig put it, butt heavy. A tip light rod is much less fatiguing on your hand, wrist, and forearm, than a rod and reel combination that is tip heavy.As Hair Jig mentioned, having the rod and reel balanced to be tip light also aids in bite detection. A tip light rod is not only less fatiguing to fish, it also aids in certain presentations. Flipping and pitching being the two that immediately come to mind. Tip light makes it easier to accelerate the tip which increases accuracy, and to some extent, distance, as well as making it easier to get your bait to enter the water more softly.
Hair Jig is right about how rod builders feel about adding weight to the rods they build. I'm a member of Rodbuilding.org, and the vast majority of them are only interested in building the lightest rod possible. And while it's true that adding weight to a rod will technically decrease its sensitivity ..... where the added weight is located is what really counts. Weight located from the reel seat to the butt doesn't have nearly the affect on a rod's sensitivity as weight located from the reel seat to the tip. The closer to the tip the weight is located, the more affect it has on a rod's sensitivity. If you are adding weight to a rod to get the rod and reel combination balance that you're looking for, you want to add it as close to the butt as possible. Doing so will lessen the amount of weight you'll need to use to get the degree of balance you're looking for.
Needing to add weight to the butt of a rod to get the rod and reel combination to balance doesn't mean you've bought a crappy rod. And it doesn't mean that the rod is built improperly. The fact is that longer rods, with lighter reels (although reel weight isn't that huge of a factor in balance) and lighter split rear grips have made getting a rod and reel combination more difficult to balance. It's a matter or physics.
center of reel seat or slightly in front of seat with reel attached
"No man stands taller than one who stoops to help a child"
I agree.Originally Posted by Bassbme
In a nutshell ...... You want as much of the weight IN YOUR HAND as is possible. Behind your hand is great, but if the setup feels like your hand is holding all of the weight you're in business.
It should balance anywhere you want it to. It makes no difference where that is. The only reason it should balance in a static condition is if you hang it on the wall. We are people, mostly constructed the same but there are differences due to heredity, conditioning and age to name a few reasons. When a rod and reel become kinetic, the operator's range of motion, strength and the necessity to either cast long, short, or with accuracy are among the variables, not to mention lure weight etc.
It's where you like it.
Short answer is the rod with reel attached should balance at the reel seat or slightly forward of the reel seat. Which in most cases is were you hold the rod. Glad to see some rod builders chiming in.
In the fresh water world rod and reel combos don’t weigh much, so any good quality rod is going to be fairly light. In the offshore scene, large 2 speed reels and stout rods can weigh a few pounds. Balance is much more important holding that mess all day and can wear you out.
When I built rods they were always set up neutral. Which means they balanced at the reel seat or just in front depending on application.
2024 Phoenix 818, Mercury 175 (3B414035) Trick Steps, 3 Garmin 106 SV,s, LVS 34. BoatEFX dual bow mount. Ionic 12V 125AH, 2 12V 100 ah LiTime’s for the TM. Minn Kota 345 PCL charger,
I’ve been following this thread along and last night gave my son his birthday gift of a Rainshadow blank, high grade cork, split grip with nice winding checks. I put a alps fighting butt that has the butt cap you can epoxy on after you finish. Just to see, I mounted a Curado on it and had him feel it. It’s just a little tip heavy so I started adding a little weight to the butt just taping it on so he could feel it. 3/4 ounce first, then added another 3/4 ounce. Even though the rod was 1 1/2 ounces heavier, he said it felt lighter in his hand. I didn’t coach him on what to say or what we were looking for. All because we changed the balance point more toward the reel. It ended up balancing just in front of the mid point of the reel, about at its pivot point. I will probably do this on most of my builds going forward.
And THAT is why the rods I build for personal use have the lightest guides and the minimum amount of thread possible. They balance in a "tip-High" attitude because the handle is always heavier. Better sensitivity & lighter feel.
Just out of curiosity ... what length blank and how many guides?
Just out of curiosity ... what length blank and how many guides?
Rainshadow Eternity, ETEC76MH, 7’6”, Alps MVT carbon fiber reel seat, CRB LZR Casting Guides with 1 double foot stripper, 1 single foot 6 ring runner, 9 5ring single foot runners, so a total of 11 guides. When I static load tested this looked the best. The LZR’s are the Light duty, thin rings with Zirconium polished insert. Very nice guide train that I like. The #5’s allow me to run braid with a leader if I want.
I'm VERY old school. All of my 7' 844s have (1) double foot 12, and (2) single foot 10s, and (3) single foot 8s. Yes ... only 6 guides. I've built them like that for years and they have never caused any problems, are extremely lightweight and sensitive. We run line from 12# to 25# on them. Never saw any reason to change anything.
I know a lot of guys like a spiral wrap. Nice way to cut down on guides and reduce weight. I haven’t built one but something to explore.
I built one a few months ago. Lots of work for nothing, imo. The main thing I am hearing is that it stops the line from slapping on the blank when it is loaded. FWIW, I've fished for 45+ years and caught a lot of very large fish and never saw this "line slap" as a problem or had any line failures because of it. Guess I'm just too old.
apdriver, don't let anyone tell you that you added too much weight to your son's rod. You added what needed to be added, and as your son experienced, even though the combination is physically heavier, it doesn't feel as heavy. I have a rod I built on a Rainshadow Immortal IMMC 72MH (bad ass blank btw) that I added 2 3/8 oz inside the butt to get the balance point I prefer.
Prior to that rod I had another rod that I had built on the same blank with other than a different reel seat, had the exact same components. It was one of the first rods I built and I didn't add any weight to it. It was quite tip heavy. Using that rod would have my wrist and forearm aching at the end of a day of flipping and pitching. Initially I blamed it on the reel seat, it was a Pac Bay Minima seat (split seat) but it was really they tip heaviness of the rod and reel combination. Sadly that first rod broke due to a unfortunate encounter with a 40+ inch rocket of a muskie hitting my bait right at the boat.
Anyhow, since that rod, I have been using the Alps MVT reel seat that you mentioned, on all of my casting rod builds. IMO it's the sweetest looking casting seat on the market, and is super comfortable in use.
Thanks Bassbme. That’s what’s nice about making your own, I guess. Allows you to build it like you want. I’m not convinced that building a blank with the recommended number of eyes, spacing according to your own deflection test, maybe even adding a guide makes all that much difference. Especially with these small single foot, light alloy frames in a size 5. Probably the biggest factor is butt to reel seat spacing, IMO. This can be tricky as everyone likes something different and we all measure a little different in forearm length, height, etc. For me 13” from butt to middle of reel seat is comfortable. An inch or two either way and it’s too short or too long. So that’s limited in itself. The split butt removes weight behind the reel seat essentially adding to tip heaviness. Blank length plays a big factor. Longer blanks have more mass in front of the reel seat tending to make them tip heavy. At some point adding weight to the butt is all you have.
I've never given any thought whatsoever to the way a rod balances. An entire setup weighs less than 1lb. If you can't fish with something that light because it's "tip heavy", you might want to think about strengthening your forearms.
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