21ss extreme questions

[Jlambdin]

I have a 99 21ss extreme. I bought it from a buddy of mine. He said he got top speed around 72 mph, would run on average between 55 and 65. That was with factory lower unit. It now has an EMI lower unit on it. I can only get about 63 mph, and thats wfo. No more pedal. Running around 6500 rpm. I noticed before I changed the plugs I was only getting around 5500 rpm. Would the emi be geared different maybe? All speeds are via GPS. Now he said his run was empty livewells and about a quarter tank of fuel. Motor is 225 ficht running a 13.5x 23 4 blade prop I believe.

[javelin90]

Yes the Emi lower unit is geared differently. Is the Emi similar to the Reman. SEI lower unit? Friend of mine had the same setup and he was running a 25" 4 blade prop. I cannot remember the name or model of prop.

[Jlambdin]

I'm not sure, he had changed the lower unit before I bought it from him. Prop is a 13.5× 25 renegade. A couple lf the blades have some nicks in them. Would 2 full livewells and 3/4 tank of fuel take 8 or 9 mph away

[mactlman]

without knowing the gear ratio it is a guess but lots of slippage in them numbers like a worn out or bad prop-- 65 ok for that boat motor set up but 55 way low -- motor healthy?

a big hub merc prop would definitely be worth it to look into getting one

[Jlambdin]

Attached are pictures of 3 of the blades. I do not know either of the gear ratios. Compression checked in April not ran a lot since then 120-125 across all 6. Motor seems to be healthy. What I mean was his average cruising speed was 55-65 mph. It was capable of about 72. Again this was all before the lower unit got replaced. But at 55 mph now I'm running around 6k rpms give or take and at 63 mph I'm pushing 6500-6700 rpms. If the lower unit is geared differently should I go with a bigger prop or larger pitch?





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[JR19]

The prop definitely need to be refurbished/repaired. I would sent it to Mark Croxten. It will cost around $15 both ways to ship but I can assure its worth the $30 in shipping. His work is second to nobody... http://www.marksprops.com/


Now as for your rpm's they are very high. Almost so high I would question the accuracy of the tachometer. If your truly spinning that Ficht to 6000 or 6500 the insides will explode pretty soon. I may be wrong but I though they had a rev limiter that kicked in around 6000 or 6100. Post your engine model number in the Evinrude forum and ask what the max suggested rpm is for your motor. Having the model number will allow them to give you the correct answer. Simply saying 225 Ficht has variables so post the model number so they know exactly what motor is in question. Also ask if that motor has a built in rev limiter. I might be wrong (because I have been before) but I do think the computer will not allow it to spin 6500...and even if the computer does allow it to spin 6500 I can assure you 6000 or 6500 is way too many.

[Jlambdin]

Well, prior to changing plugs it was running 5500-6000 at roughly same speeds... I don't think I could have messed anything up with the tact readout by changing plugs, or could I have?

[mactlman]

redline is at 6200 i believe on these fichts- plug change would not affect tach but tachs can be off anytime also

[BuzzB8]

Not a fight owner, but do the plugs need to be indexed?

[Jlambdin]

If you're calling indexed turned towards the injector.. I believe so and I have them all fairly close. Prior to changing plugs, randomly one day it started cutting out bad when I was trying to get out of hole...once it broke over it ran fine. It done that several times on that trip.. Last time it did it check engine light came on. Changed plugs and check engine light went away.. Now randomly once in a while check engine light will come on, shut it off fire it back up no problem. But it also will die completely out going from gear to neutral.

[JR19]

Not a fight owner, but do the plugs need to be indexed?

If you're calling indexed turned towards the injector.. I believe so and I have them all fairly close. Prior to changing plugs, randomly one day it started cutting out bad when I was trying to get out of hole...once it broke over it ran fine. It done that several times on that trip.. Last time it did it check engine light came on. Changed plugs and check engine light went away.. Now randomly once in a while check engine light will come on, shut it off fire it back up no problem. But it also will die completely out going from gear to neutral.

Yes they have to be indexed and I will also add there is a specific plug you need to use so don't cross reference or vary. Use the plug that is suggested and make sure to check the gap because I have seen them be off a tad bit from the factory. I don't know what plug yours calls for or how man pounds of torque but I do have the info my my particular Ficht but its a totally different motor than yours. I will use mine as an example though...spark plug gap .28-.30....ALWAYS set them to the low side because Ficht's don't like a gap wider than what's called for. If you install them at .30 as soon as they start to show signs of wear they can lose effectiveness. Installed at .28 you have a little wear before they lose anything. Now regarding being indexed they do not have to be pointed directly at the injector. There is a small window above or below the injector they can fall into but they and they must be torqued to the correct ft pounds.. NEVER use shims to get one into the correct position. If it does not work on one cylinder more than likely it will be perfect on the cylinder on the opposite side. I have index a set of Ficht plugs about 5-6 time in yeras past and only once did it take me 7 plugs to get them all set correct.

[mactlman]

[Jlambdin]

Yes they have to be indexed and I will also add there is a specific plug you need to use so don't cross reference or vary. Use the plug that is suggested and make sure to check the gap because I have seen them be off a tad bit from the factory. I don't know what plug yours calls for or how man pounds of torque but I do have the info my my particular Ficht but its a totally different motor than yours. I will use mine as an example though...spark plug gap .28-.30....ALWAYS set them to the low side because Ficht's don't like a gap wider than what's called for. If you install them at .30 as soon as they start to show signs of wear they can lose effectiveness. Installed at .28 you have a little wear before they lose anything. Now regarding being indexed they do not have to be pointed directly at the injector. There is a small window above or below the injector they can fall into but they and they must be torqued to the correct ft pounds.. NEVER use shims to get one into the correct position. If it does not work on one cylinder more than likely it will be perfect on the cylinder on the opposite side. I have index a set of Ficht plugs about 5-6 time in yeras past and only once did it take me 7 plugs to get them all set correct.

Would incorrect gap cause check engine light?

[JR19]

Would incorrect gap cause check engine light?

I am not a technician so I relay don't know the technical answer but my opinion is no....I owned a 1999 150 HP Ficht for several years. During that time I done a lot of research and know a little about the small blocks but don't really know much about the big blocks. In the small blocks the computer as well as the solder joints in the Power Distribution Panel was a weak link that often had sporadic issues or failed. Make sure you do not have wing nuts on your battery. Clean the + and - connection so they look like a shiny new penny and install lock nuts. In my case there was a ground wire behind the PDP that also needs to be clean and have a tight connection. For some reason the small blocks were prone to have sporadic issues if the ground was not a perfectly good connection.

Now if you have had a check engine light and it went away the code is still stored in the computer. If you have the software you can look at the data. If not you will have to take it to a dealer and let them pull the codes and tell you what they mean.

My computer crapped out at around 500-600 hours. It's been a few years but to the best of my memory this is what happen when my computer failed...One day out of the clear blue cursing down the lake my rpms would drop 500 rpm then jump right back to normal. This would only happen every once in a while. I changed the plugs and still had the random issue. Then about 2-3 trips later when cursing at 4500 it instantly fell to 2500 rpm then instantly surged back to 4500. It was almost as if you let completely off the throttle then mashed it to the floor. This happen two or three times on my way back to the ramp. Once at the ramp and I went to start it to load all the lights on the system check tack would flash and the motor would do nothing. Luckily I was broke down at the ramp. I ended up buying a new computer and I can tell you a new one or getting your old one refurbished is an expensive repair. Then a few years later at almost 1000 hours I had issues where my motor would not start. The tech I took it to said the start assist circuit in my computer was the problem. At this point I had 1000 hours on my motor so I decided I would re-power rather than have another costly computer repair. Again....my issue may be totally different than yours but that's what happen both times my computer failed.

If you want to know what your past check engine light meant have the stored codes pulled.

[Jlambdin]

I just got some more information. The factory lower unit was a 1.86:1 ratio the new one is 1.83:1. From what I've read the new lower unit will give you more bottom end less top end. Would that much ratio difference take 5-7 mph away? Can I get more speed by re proping or am I stuck with what I have?

[Williep99]

How are u shipping for $15. UPS jacked me $70 to just send it to Mark from Idaho.

From earlier in this thread and I quote.
The prop definitely need to be refurbished/repaired. I would sent it to Mark Croxten. It will cost around $15 both ways to ship but I can assure its worth the $30 in shipping. His work is second to nobody... http://www.marksprops.com/

[Jlambdin]

Do what? Lol. I think you posted into the wrong thread.

[tdt91]

If you're calling indexed turned towards the injector.. I believe so and I have them all fairly close. Prior to changing plugs, randomly one day it started cutting out bad when I was trying to get out of hole...once it broke over it ran fine. It done that several times on that trip.. Last time it did it check engine light came on. Changed plugs and check engine light went away.. Now randomly once in a while check engine light will come on, shut it off fire it back up no problem. But it also will die completely out going from gear to neutral.

I knew there was more to the story.

[tdt91]

How are u shipping for $15. UPS jacked me $70 to just send it to Mark from Idaho.

Yeah, JR19 is thinking about a prop he shipped 15 years ago. LOL. With decent packaging and insurance it's up in the $70 range unless you have an account through a business that has a good plan.

[tdt91]

OP, Yeah you need a different prop but I would question if that is your main issue. Maybe you have a rectifier regulator going bad or maybe the EMM is going bad.
An incorrect gap will not cause a check engine light but an EMM issue will. These motors have a common issue and thats the EMM. They get hot because the cooling system they designed for the Ficht was flawed. They then start to fail, you can most of the time get them repaired.
Once you get the motor back to right then trow away the Renegade or sell it to someone else that thinks Renegades are worth something. You should try to find friends with props to try because with the LU you have you don't really have a starting point. Those props you try also need to be un-worked, built back to spec by a very reputable shop or low hours and in great shape, almost new. If you borrow a prop from a guy and it looks great but in reality is out of spec it ends up throwing you further off the path. I bought a prop from a guy here on BBC years ago and it looked great. Once I ran it I knew it was a piece of crap out of spec because I have a known starting point with the boat, motor, and props and have an idea of how it should respond. With no starting point you will be fighting it forever.
Get the engine right, if it can get right, then start testing good props. All that said, that combo you have is about a 65MPH boat. To get 72-73 like he said he must have been really light.
I wouldn't recommend putting a lot of money into the motor, it's a one off year, parts are extremely hard to find and it's worth nothing to mostly anyone other than the unsuspecting. When guys post up asking questions about these motors and are considering buying a boat with one the answer from mostly everyone is. If you really like the boat and it's solid then buy it for a price that don't include the motor.
I may seem forward with this post but I'm not trying to sell you something, I'm being straight up honest about the motor and the props based on experience.

Good luck