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  1. #1
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    Surge Breaks - Sudden Loss of ALL Resistance

    Out of nowhere it seems, my surge breaks have lost all resistance. I can push and pull my tongue in and out 100% by hand. Fluid level is normal. Don’t see any leaks.

    1. What could cause this?

    2. Most important, does it have an easy fix. I don’t care about having brakes.

  2. Member
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    #2
    Almost sounds like the brake fluid is bypassing the calipers and returning back to the master cylinder? Possible bad Master Cylinder.
    Last edited by Champ 2001; 08-13-2020 at 06:55 PM.

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    #3
    Have you inspected your pads to see if they are worn down to the bare minimum?

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    #4
    Haven’t. Just happened and know very lite about surge brakes. My answer might be to weld it open.

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    #5
    What make and year of your trailer?

  6. Member
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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Champ 2001 View Post
    What make and year of your trailer?
    2018 EZ Loader

  7. Member
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    #7
    Jack up trailer, remove tires and inspect. Check fluid level in master cylinder. If ok, then manually pump the master cylinder to see if calipers are working. Rotors should not be able to turn until you release pressure. Underneath your tongue there is a small tab that you can put a screwdriver underneath and cycle the master cylinder. That's how you would bleed your brakes as well if needed after a opening in the brake system. I'm no expert, by no means but this should help.

  8. Member Jeff Hahn's Avatar
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    #8
    The backup solenoid is designed to cycle the brake fluid back into the master cylinder so you can back up without locking up the brakes. Sounds to me like the backup solenoid stopped working in the close position, so it will cycle the brake fluid back into the master cylinder, allowing your to easily push and pull the tongue by hand. I would check the power to the backup solenoid. If there's power to it, lightly (and carefully) bang on it and see if you can loosen it up.
    "The man of system is apt to be very wise in his own conceit; and is often so enamored with the supposed beauty of his own ideal plan of government that he cannot suffer the smallest deviation from any part of it…He seems to imagine that he can arrange the different members of a great society with as much ease as the hand arranges the different pieces upon a chessboard.” Adam Smith, The Theory of Moral Sentiments

  9. Member
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    #9
    Well I brought it to a trailer repair shop and they couldn't fix it. Said they tried everything and could get it to work once and then it wouldn't work again. Same thing with a new actualtor. Work once and no more. Changed brake lines too.

  10. Electrical/Wiring/Trolling Motors Moderator CatFan's Avatar
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by barbarian View Post
    Well I brought it to a trailer repair shop and they couldn't fix it. Said they tried everything and could get it to work once and then it wouldn't work again. Same thing with a new actualtor. Work once and no more. Changed brake lines too.
    You need a new trailer repair shop. Surge brakes are so simple that any competent mechanic should be able to repair them in just a few hours even if the entire system needs to be replaced.
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  11. Member
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    #11
    Well I brought it to a trailer repair shop and they couldn't fix it. Said they tried everything and could get it to work once and then it wouldn't work again. Same thing with a new actualtor. Work once and no more. Changed brake lines too.
    Confused

    Did you pay the trailer shop for the parts and labor?

    Did you return to the shop after it failed after the first use or did it fail when they were testing it and gave up?

    Did they say they would not continue to work on the trailer?

    I would agree with CatFan in needing a new shop.

    I would also argue for a refund on the incompetent/unskilled labor ( but still pay for parts used ) and move on.

  12. Member wmitch2's Avatar
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    #12
    Take the cap off of the Master Cylinder and pump the brakes by pushing on the hitch, SLOWLY. You should see the fluid bubble. If not, then the shaft from the actuator is broken. You might make the whole thing easier by just replacing the whole Surge Brake tongue, (everything forward of the brake line). Runs around $250 +/- and is an easy DYI. OH, and NEVER EVER go back to that trailer shop !!!
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  13. Member
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    #13
    Sorry about your brake issues. Im having them as well. Question on bleeding surge brakes. Does the fluid really squirt out of there when you get all the air out? Or does it come out somewhat slowly when working the small tab.

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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by wmitch2 View Post
    Take the cap off of the Master Cylinder and pump the brakes by pushing on the hitch, SLOWLY. You should see the fluid bubble. If not, then the shaft from the actuator is broken. You might make the whole thing easier by just replacing the whole Surge Brake tongue, (everything forward of the brake line). Runs around $250 +/- and is an easy DYI. OH, and NEVER EVER go back to that trailer shop !!!

  15. Member
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by wmitch2 View Post
    Take the cap off of the Master Cylinder and pump the brakes by pushing on the hitch, SLOWLY. You should see the fluid bubble. If not, then the shaft from the actuator is broken. You might make the whole thing easier by just replacing the whole Surge Brake tongue, (everything forward of the brake line). Runs around $250 +/- and is an easy DYI. OH, and NEVER EVER go back to that trailer shop !!!
    They did replace the whole tongue when I brought it back. They called me and said it was ready. I picked it up and before I got completely off their property. I noticed the back and forth still going on. Brought it back and they spent almost another full day working on it including changing the surge brake tongue and brake lines. I stopped by after work and they were at a loss. Said they have never seen anything like it and had no idea what to do next except start changing the brakes. That day of labor was free for me, but I wasnt going to start guessing on my $$ so I brought it home. In the end, they changed the lines, bled the system at least twice that I know of, tried a new surge tongue. Said they would test it and it would work on one side then when they would test the other side, it would work but the other side wouldn't. Their next guess was the calipers causing the issue. My next guess is to eliminate them completely.

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    #16
    Well, you have written a very interesting post. If people there can't fix it with the actual trailer in front of them I doubt we can from our computers. I don't think our guesses will hurt though. I once worked on a V W bus that had a weird issue, if you hit the brakes hard, it wouldn't stop but if you hit them easy it would. Turns out the brake reservoir was right next to the window washer reservoir and the owner had put wiper fluid in the brake system.
    Since all the components are new, maybe a total flush and new fluid would help.

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    #17
    i would buy a couple speed bleeders and try bleeding it myself,it sounds like it still has a air pocket in it

  18. Member cwilt's Avatar
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    #18
    Did they replace all the brake lines? I had a blockage on the line that T's to the left brake. The left brake caliper would bleed just a small trickle of fluid and would not release the brake pads (just left side). Did they replace the back-up solenoid? You can test it with a 9v battery and listen for the audible click when connecting the battery. Good luck.
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by cwilt View Post
    Did they replace all the brake lines? I had a blockage on the line that T's to the left brake. The left brake caliper would bleed just a small trickle of fluid and would not release the brake pads (just left side). Did they replace the back-up solenoid? You can test it with a 9v battery and listen for the audible click when connecting the battery. Good luck.
    Any flex line can break down inside and block fluid. Change them now if you have any that flex, it's a cheap fix if it works.

  20. Member
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    #20
    That day of labor was free for me, but I wasnt going to start guessing on my $$ so I brought it home. In the end, they changed the lines, bled the system at least twice that I know of, tried a new surge tongue. Said they would test it and it would work on one side then when they would test the other side, it would work but the other side wouldn't. Their next guess was the calipers causing the issue.
    Just to be clear, they installed a new tongue actuator or just used a new actuator during testing and did not leave it installed?

    Their trouble shooting skills seem somewhat deficient and they may be introducing more variables into troubleshooting the problem than actual solutions.

    I noticed the back and forth still going on. Brought it back and they spent almost another full day working on it including changing the surge brake tongue and brake lines. I stopped by after work and they were at a loss.
    These systems are just not that complicated that it would require a full day to trouble shoot unless they did not have all parts on hand.

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