Long Topshot of Floro (25ft+) Spinning Reel Issues

[reason162]

The problem is no matter what I do...the braid just behind the connection knot will get frayed. It could be within the first few casts of the day, or after a couple hundred casts, but sooner or later I can feel/hear the THUNK of the knot catching in the guide train and the braid will start to separate behind the knot. The floro leader and the knot itself would not be damaged in any way.

I'm using YGK Upgrade x8 14lb (that's like 4lb "normal" braid dia) to 6lb Sniper. Tried both FG and Alberto. My knots are perfect. No matter what I do, if the knot is inside the spinning reel spool this happens. I've resorted to a 13ft leader just to keep the knot outside the spool, but then I'm casting with a 6-7ft drop. Knot outside the spool zero issues.

Any suggestions?

[jasonG]

Never had such a issue and I use j braid

[Walkabout7781]

I would inspect the bail roller to make sure it turned free and had no burrs on the edges. FWIW, IMO, a few feet of leader is all you need, but we all use more so that we don't have to tie on a new leader all that often...especially on the water. I have enough trouble tying a Palomar on a windy day, on the water, with 8 lb copolymer. Part of it is 75 year old eyes, but not all.

[DrewFlu33]

I run long leaders on my drop shot rod, roughly 20 feet. I’ve not had this issue except with one type of braid, the Fins XS. That stuff handles great and is super smooth, but wants to fray for whatever reason. The YGK is supposed to be great stuff across the board, but I would try something else to see if that fixes it. I’ve not used that variety of YGK, but did use the I agree with OhDragon SS140 in a similar setup with no issues.

Walkabout’s thought about checking the roller is a good idea, but I would think a problematic roller would cause issues all over your line instead of in just one spot. Maybe the knot slapping it causes it to stick for a second or something and that’s causing your issues, but I suspect the line is the problem after having the similar issue I mentioned above.

I think it’s caused by the line being prone to fraying anyway, and the knot whipping around subjecting that small section of braid to make more contact with the rod, guides, etc. as you’re fishing. To some extent, the fact that the longer leader twists a little more might contribute as well. That twist can cause the knot to double back on your mainline and fray it up too.

[reason162]

I run long leaders on my drop shot rod, roughly 20 feet.

Are you bombing out casts with that setup? The application for me is spybaiting on a 7'6 spinner, and I am launching that bait.

It's definitely not the line roller, and I've since spoken to a couple other guys who basically said my issue is unavoidable. The only thing that cuts down on the % is UV knot glue and "tapering" the last inch or so of braid into the knot itself...something I'm unwilling to do.

I ordered a spare spool and filled it with 6lb Sniper, tho it seems thicker than I anticipated. Might try 5lb next. I haven't loaded up a full spool of anything but braid since...well shit, since braid came out on the market lol. We'll see how straight floro treats me, if I get any more bites and if the line behaves.


fe5PJuv.jpg

[Walkabout7781]

Hmmmm….dunno about using Sniper on a spinning reel. I put 6 lb Tatsu on a Curado SF for spybaiting and never had a problem with the line. I did not like the way my Duo Realis Spy90 fell...80 degrees nose down...dropped like a rock.

I have since considered trying to adjust the fall with different line setups, such as straight 10 lb Copolymer or maybe 20 lb braid with a 10 lb Copolymer leader, to keep the bait's nose up some. Nobody ever said anything about using different line on the 90 sized spybait, so I just quit fooling with it. Gotta figure out what to do with a reel full of 6 lb Tatsu now.

[slipknobber bot]

Hmmmm….dunno about using Sniper on a spinning reel. I put 6 lb Tatsu on a Curado SF for spybaiting and never had a problem with the line. I did not like the way my Duo Realis Spy90 fell...80 degrees nose down...dropped like a rock.

I have since considered trying to adjust the fall with different line setups, such as straight 10 lb Copolymer or maybe 20 lb braid with a 10 lb Copolymer leader, to keep the bait's nose up some. Nobody ever said anything about using different line on the 90 sized spybait, so I just quit fooling with it. Gotta figure out what to do with a reel full of 6 lb Tatsu now.

Agree. Flouro is the last thing I want tied to my spybait.

[reason162]

First day with a full spool of floro...felt like I'm fishing with a rubber band. 30% loss in casting distance, not sure if I got more bites. But...

I landed every single fish that bit. 8/8 for the morning, all 18 - 20" smallies. That's a marked improvement from my previous landing % with braid-floro on spybaits. Definitely going to 5lb Sniper to see if I can squeeze more casting distance.

[reason162]

Hmmmm….dunno about using Sniper on a spinning reel. I put 6 lb Tatsu on a Curado SF for spybaiting and never had a problem with the line. I did not like the way my Duo Realis Spy90 fell...80 degrees nose down...dropped like a rock.

I have since considered trying to adjust the fall with different line setups, such as straight 10 lb Copolymer or maybe 20 lb braid with a 10 lb Copolymer leader, to keep the bait's nose up some. Nobody ever said anything about using different line on the 90 sized spybait, so I just quit fooling with it. Gotta figure out what to do with a reel full of 6 lb Tatsu now.

I've never found a use for the 90. 80, 80 gfix, alpha 72 is all I throw. You might like the new 100?

And does it matter how the bait falls, as long as it tracks flat on the retrieve? Are you saying the 90 travels head down on the wind?

[DrewFlu33]

Are you bombing out casts with that setup? The application for me is spybaiting on a 7'6 spinner, and I am launching that bait.

It's definitely not the line roller, and I've since spoken to a couple other guys who basically said my issue is unavoidable. The only thing that cuts down on the % is UV knot glue and "tapering" the last inch or so of braid into the knot itself...something I'm unwilling to do.

I ordered a spare spool and filled it with 6lb Sniper, tho it seems thicker than I anticipated. Might try 5lb next. I haven't loaded up a full spool of anything but braid since...well shit, since braid came out on the market lol. We'll see how straight floro treats me, if I get any more bites and if the line behaves.


fe5PJuv.jpg

Yep, I'm bombing casts with it pretty regularly on a 7'3" rod. Not throwing spybaits with that setup so maybe not as many casts which may be the difference, but I have leaders last for several trips without any fraying issues.

Tying the straight fluoro off to something and taking off walking a little more than a cast's length out and pulling on it a bit then reeling it in under moderate tension before you go fishing helps a bunch to get that memory out of it that it develops while sitting for a few days. Just be careful not to pull hard enough to come close to where you feel like it might snap as you can damage it. It will definitely behave better if you stretch it a little first. Can't argue with that landing rate on a bait that's notoriously tough to land fish on. Maybe trying some light mono would make it easier to cast? I feel confident that the action won't be any different with line that light, though it will be even more of a rubber band.

[ifishinxs]

If you don't trim the floro really close it can fray the braid. Try the GT knot as an alternative.

[reason162]

Yep, I'm bombing casts with it pretty regularly on a 7'3" rod. Not throwing spybaits with that setup so maybe not as many casts which may be the difference, but I have leaders last for several trips without any fraying issues.

Tying the straight fluoro off to something and taking off walking a little more than a cast's length out and pulling on it a bit then reeling it in under moderate tension before you go fishing helps a bunch to get that memory out of it that it develops while sitting for a few days. Just be careful not to pull hard enough to come close to where you feel like it might snap as you can damage it. It will definitely behave better if you stretch it a little first. Can't argue with that landing rate on a bait that's notoriously tough to land fish on. Maybe trying some light mono would make it easier to cast? I feel confident that the action won't be any different with line that light, though it will be even more of a rubber band.

Just to be clear, it's the braid immediately behind the leader knot that's fraying, not the knot and not the leader. Someone told me it's simply the knot flying off the spool, with the heavier floro up front and the lighter braid behind + the rapid coiling off that forces a hiccup when it hits the stripper guide...who knows, but so far it's happened without fail if I leave the knot in the spool vs just outside it.

The 6lb sniper is manageable w/o any special treatment/line conditioner, as long as I drag the line behind my kayak once or twice a day w/o a bait and wind under tension. I knew but never appreciated just how much braid can eat up twist w/o issue. I'll try the stretching trick at some point, but I'm hoping 5lb sniper will be a step in the right direction.

[reason162]

If you don't trim the floro really close it can fray the braid. Try the GT knot as an alternative.

Very true, though if you hold my knot against the light you can't even see the tag end. I trim it so close 1 out of 10 knots fail on a test pull because I trimmed into the braided portion lol.

[Quillback]

I've been using braid with a leader a lot the last couple of years and don't recall ever having the problem you describe. Lately I have been throwing Keitechs on 1/4 and 3/8 heads all day long. I use about an 8 foot leader, but I don't see how leader length could make a difference. I use Seaguar Smackdown FWIW.

[reason162]

I've been using braid with a leader a lot the last couple of years and don't recall ever having the problem you describe. Lately I have been throwing Keitechs on 1/4 and 3/8 heads all day long. I use about an 8 foot leader, but I don't see how leader length could make a difference. I use Seaguar Smackdown FWIW.

Yet it is precisely the leader length that's relevant. As long as the knot is inside the spool, what I describe happens...if it's outside the spool (up to 12-13ft on a 7'6 rod with a long drop), zero issues. I too have used braid to leader on all my spinning setups for the past decade...and only when I started experimenting with longer topshots 15ft+ did I encounter the braid fraying behind the knot.

[Quillback]

Gotcha. Don't know that I have ever fished a leader that long myself.

[DrewFlu33]

Just to be clear, it's the braid immediately behind the leader knot that's fraying, not the knot and not the leader. Someone told me it's simply the knot flying off the spool, with the heavier floro up front and the lighter braid behind + the rapid coiling off that forces a hiccup when it hits the stripper guide...who knows, but so far it's happened without fail if I leave the knot in the spool vs just outside it.

The 6lb sniper is manageable w/o any special treatment/line conditioner, as long as I drag the line behind my kayak once or twice a day w/o a bait and wind under tension. I knew but never appreciated just how much braid can eat up twist w/o issue. I'll try the stretching trick at some point, but I'm hoping 5lb sniper will be a step in the right direction.

I'm with you on the part that's fraying. As I mentioned, I did have the same issue with Fins XS. It was particularly bad when I used a heavier leader. I think the knot catching the line when coming off the spool, or the leader doubling back on itself when it gets twisted are definite possibilities. Regarding the latter: braid is definitely nice for eating up that line twist, but it can't eat it up as well when the leader is longer which I think probably adds to the issues you're experiencing as the fluoro wants to twist back up on itself making that knot entangle with the braid immediately behind it.

After trying other braided lines aside from the Fins XS, I haven't had the issue again.