Thread: Morning musing

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  1. #1
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    Morning musing


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    #2
    I respect your knowledge.. help me with this one. Exodus 21 all of it especially 20 and 21

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    #3
    Good morning. Thank you for your response.

    Could you be more specific ?

    There is alot to cover in those two chapters which speaks about the (physical/natural Exodus of Israel) and how the physical/natural exodus of Israel in the Old Testament correlates to the new Exodus in Christ (spiritual,spiritual Israel). Here are some correlations.............

    Every book in the Bible contains an important life lesson. The story of Moses is related to the spiritual exodus we as Christians face now.

    1. Bondage

    The Hebrews were in bondage by the Egyptians (Exodus 1:11). Before knowing Christ, we also were in bondage to sin, now we have been set free by Christ sacrafice on the cross. The Pharaoh represents kingdom of darkness. Today most people are in some type of spiritual bondage by kingdom of darkness (John 8:34). People are desperately waiting for the true children of God to set them free through deliverance (Romans 8:20-21) ie, the gospel.

    2. God’s Vessels

    Just like Moses, God calls people to set the captives free such as apostles, prophets, teachers, evangelists, etc. (1 Corinthians 12:27-30, 2 Timothy 4:5). However, many are called, but few are chosen (Matthew 22:14).

    3. Spiritual Warfare

    Throughout The Book of Exodus, Pharaoh’s magicians did the same kind of miracles Aaron did but at the end his staff swallowed their staffs (Exodus 7:12). When Balaam tried to curse the Hebrews, God forced him to bless them instead (Numbers 24:2-9). This describes how God’s power is mightier than any spiritualist, occultist, witch, or magician.

    4. The Blood of the Lamb

    Just as the Hebrews were protected from the wrath of God by the blood of the lamb so are we as Christians (Revelation 12:11). Whoever follows Christ will be protected by his blood from the wrath of God (John 3:36).

    5. Holy Spirit

    The Holy Spirit manifested in these elements: fire and water. When the Holy Spirit guided the Hebrews he was a cloud (water) by day and fire by night (Exodus 13:21). Through the Holy Spirit, Moses were able to do miracles. After Jesus Christ died, the Holy Spirit was available to anyone who asked for him (John 14:26).

    6. Wilderness of Sin

    The Hebrews were first wandering in the wilderness of Sin (Exodus 16:1). In order for them to survive, God rained bread from Heaven (Exodus 16:4). This represents our spiritually journey of conquering sin through the word of God and through faith (Deuteronomy 8:3). Jesus Christ is the living word (John 6:51). So because we look unto Jesus Christ, we have eternal life set free from bondage and sin.

    7. The Cross

    When the Hebrews were complaining about the manna, God sent poison snakes to kill them. Then Moses prayed for the Hebrews. Then God instructed him to make a fiery snake made out of bronze on a pole. Once the Hebrews would look at it, they would live (Numbers 21:5-9). Once we look to Christ we also live.
    The snake on a pole represent Jesus Christ and ours sins dying on the cross once he died on the cross. Bronze was the same metal used as a sacrifice altar in the Tabernacle (Exodus 38:30). The fiery snake represents sin and judgement of sin, which is Hell. As Christians, we must always fix our eyes on Jesus Christ (Hebrews 12:2 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him. – John 3:14-15. Once we believe and follow Jesus Christ, our sins are in turn put on the cross (Galatians 2:20).

    8. Promise Land

    The Hebrews were promised to inherit a land with milk and honey (Exodus 33:3-9). The Lord Almighty guided them to the land until their lack of faith cost them their inheritance (Numbers 13:27-14:30). As Christians, Jesus Christ promised us eternal life with him in Heaven (John 14:2) and on the New Earth (Revelation 21:2).


    There could be books written on the correlations.......................and many have already been written. Hope this helps. Have a great day.

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    #4
    Thanks for your response. These are puzzling to me. Exodus 21 verses 20-21

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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by rexico View Post
    Thanks for your response. These are puzzling to me. Exodus 21 verses 20-21


    Here’s a way to illustrate it in more modern times to help us understand. Let’s suppose someone owes me a business debt of $200,000. They can’t pay, and I offer that they can work for me exclusively (ie, be my slave under contract), and live with me and tend to my property. At the end of 6 years, they are free to leave and do what they want. Their debt will be paid at that time. They agree.
    Well, one day, the worker I hired (“the slave”), gets into a fight with me. I reach over and whack him over the head with a baseball bat in the heat of the argument. If he died, I’d be put to death for murder. But let’s say he lives. So he goes to the hospital, but he survives. Then, we must appear in court over the incident.
    In court, the judge looks at his medical bills, pain, and his suffering. The judge then orders that I pay $200,000 to cover such expenses (“the penalty”). I then point out that I had purchased his labor for this very price (in the form of indentured servitude labor). So the judge says, okay, you pay nothing then. You should pay him $200,000, but since the slave owes you money ($200,000, your compensation for that debt), you don’t owe anything. It’s a wash.

    In my view these verse's are merely laying out punishments for crimes. It isn’t saying the crime is okay, but just stipulating the punishments if they happen.

    Thankfully we have this


    There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
    -Galations 3:28

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    #6
    Help me with Exodus 21 vs 2 - 11 These seem to be rules for buying slaves. verses 7-11... puzzling, what does it mean?

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    #7
    Good evening Rexico , Slavery in ancient times could be good or bad just like today. You could be mistreated or treated with kindness. There are many forms of slavery recorded in the bible. Just as in todays society , the debtor is slave to the lender, you borrow money in todays world, I can promise you that you are a slave to the lender, you can work for a boss that is unfair, treats you like dirt, demanding in unfair ways, over works you .................on and on I could go.

    I have been blessed to own my company for over 20 years...................I have attempted to treat my slaves (employees) the way I would want to be treated.

    Slavery in the vernacular of todays society is warped.........................we are slaves to the federal goverment.......we dont own anything in todays world. We pay taxes to "Ceasar" ie, think Roman world and biblical language.

    Hope this helps.

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    #8
    If you dont pay "Caesar"....................His tags for your automobile, or his property taxes, or his school taxes, or his state income taxes, or his sales tax, or estate tax or his federal income tax...........................what happens to your property ? We are all slaves.


    Unless you are a slave to Christ.


    Hope this helps !

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    #9
    Leviticus 25: verse 46
    Slaves seem to be your property, to buy and sell, and to leave to your family. Do you think God approves of this?

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    #10
    rexico...................I am not sure if you are a troll or are truly interested in uderstanding the bible or todays culture.

    Today, the term "slave" in a socialistic, western or liberal sense has a totally different meaning than it did 2,000 years ago. Were there slaves 2000 years ago that were negleted, mistreated ect ........................of course there were. I attempted to describe in my previouse post it is the same today.

    "to buy and sale" ? of course, its the same today. If you want to keep an employee and they are worthy of their labor, you pay them, if not they are bougth by another person for better wages, salary, benifits..................

    "and to leave to your family" Do you have any idea how many auto workers , coal miners , electricians, steel workers ect during our national history have stayed with those companies for generations ?

    If you are not a Troll................I would refer to you Ecclesiastes 1:9

    What has been will be again,
    what has been done will be done again;
    there is nothing new under the sun.

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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by rexico View Post
    I respect your knowledge.. help me with this one. Exodus 21 all of it especially 20 and 21

    rexico, I am not easily flattered

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    #12
    rexico,

    over the years, there are trolls (which i dont care to inform)...................and there people who do not want to "deal with", "exegete" or have "a dialouge with" the scriptures that are present in the conversation. "They" want to always point to the next scripture to make their point. This seems to be you ?

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    #13
    Deal with the text in the conversation...........................dont bring up other text until the origional text has been dealt with. :)

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    #14
    You seem irritated, I am sorry. I was hoping to find someone that would answer some questions. I remember from my Sunday school days "you shouldn't ask questions like that" I brought up another verse because I didn't think you understood my question. I actually don't know what a troll is.

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    #15
    Rexico, not irritated at all.

    What part of my answers (Post #'s 3,4,5,7 and 8) made you think I did not undertand your question?

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    #16
    I guess the story of Joseph would be a fine example of slavery.

    (Genesis 37, 39-45).

    Joseph had a pretty good gig going on and yet he was a slave.

    Another example of slavery is :

    According to Proverbs 22:7 (NIV), “The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is slave to the lender.”

    Another example of slavery is :

    21Were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so. 22For the one who was a slave when called to faith in the Lord is the Lord’s freed person; similarly, the one who was free when called is Christ’s slave. 23You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of human beings. 24Brothers and sisters, each person, as responsible to God, should remain in the situation they were in when God called them.

    Now this chapter of Corinthians is very
    eschactological (dealing with the last days, end times, second appearing of Jesus ect) SEE VERSE 29

    29What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short.




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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by rexico View Post
    You seem irritated, I am sorry. I was hoping to find someone that would answer some questions. I remember from my Sunday school days "you shouldn't ask questions like that" I brought up another verse because I didn't think you understood my question. I actually don't know what a troll is.

    Now that is a great statement and is actually what made me seek God and to understand his written word to the best of my ability.

    Most read the bible like it is a Readers Digest (hope you are old enough to know what a readers digest is LOL). The bible is a composition of stories, allegories, poems, psalms, letters, historicle narratives , metaphores apocolytic languge ect. It is not a Readers Digest.

    Many christians do not like for people to ask questions or to seek out to understand tough biblical passages, they just want you to "obey" whatever view they have. I have posted Bart Erhman videos on here in the faith forum and people got offended. I would assume they got offended because he is a agnostic and he addresses tough biblical questions that most christians can not defend or answer (apologetics) unless they use the "obey" me line of thinking.

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    #18
    I am glad to know that you are not " one of those Christians". We socialize with friends, that are very active in their church, it an unspoken rule, that you don't ask any questions. That has always been the impression I get. From the 8 yr old kid in Bible school, to the 60 yo adult. It does look like you were a little irritated about the questions. The best you can do is give your opinion on any questions. An answer to a question about a verse with another verse, doesn't really help me. I have many questions. I hope you are patient enough to help. By the way what is a troll?

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    #19
    Well i am probably not the internet guru on trolling.........but what i meant by the term was asking questions in a attempt to steer the converstation in another direction without ever commenting on or discussing the origional question/answer. No hard feelings at all here !

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by godsdozer View Post
    rexico...................I am not sure if you are a troll or are truly interested in uderstanding the bible or todays culture.

    Today, the term "slave" in a socialistic, western or liberal sense has a totally different meaning than it did 2,000 years ago. Were there slaves 2000 years ago that were negleted, mistreated ect ........................of course there were. I attempted to describe in my previouse post it is the same today.

    "to buy and sale" ? of course, its the same today. If you want to keep an employee and they are worthy of their labor, you pay them, if not they are bougth by another person for better wages, salary, benifits..................

    "and to leave to your family" Do you have any idea how many auto workers , coal miners , electricians, steel workers ect during our national history have stayed with those companies for generations ?

    If you are not a Troll................I would refer to you Ecclesiastes 1:9

    What has been will be again,
    what has been done will be done again;
    there is nothing new under the sun.
    This is where you seem upset. Where you can help me is..... Are these verses not to be taken as written? The verse says slave, you say employee. These are things that confuse me.

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