Berkley Fusion 19 EWG Vs Gamakatsu Superline??

[Casslaw]

Hey guys I’m stumped on this one!

I normally use Gamakatsu Superline EWG worm hooks but got the Superline Berkley Fusion 19 4/0 hooks because they were on sale. I’m using them on flukes, 4-6” stick baits, Zoom speed worms, Culprit 7” FatMaxx, etc.

I’m using my brand new “worm rod” 7’3” MH-F Tatula 60th Anniversary Rod with a 7.1 Tatula SV 103HS with 40lb Sufix 832. I got the rod a couple weeks ago so I’ve been using it a lot to break it in and get used to it. Love the rod/reel, awesome combo!

I have had more fish come unpinned on these hooks in the last few weeks than I have ever lost in my life! Just this morning I had a nice 4.5lb’er on. I set the hook plenty hard, then fought the fish for 20 seconds or so. When the fish got about 10’ from me I went to pull it close to land it and POOF, the hook just came out!

This happened last week on a 6 pounder too. It’s also happened on much smaller fish. I have inspected these hooks and there’s nothing I can see that would lead me to believe they have anything wrong with them.

Each time I have lost a fish I shouldn’t have I have put my normal Gammy on, went back and lost no fish.

How is this possible? I can’t imagine these Fusion hooks are this bad! Anyone else have this experience?

[DMart1]

Haven't used the heavy Fusion but I like their standard worm hook for carolina rigs.

On a side note I recently switched from Gammy Superline to the VMC Heavy EWG for flipping and love it. Nice and strong hook and the epoxy hook eye is a huge bonus.

[jbrazzale]

I hesitate to comment as I haven't used the EWG version of the Fusion 19 hooks, but I have three years experience with their drop shot, flipping and screwlock hooks. Personally, I love this line of hooks, especially their flipping hook.

It surprises me to hear you have been having trouble with them. They are sticky sharp and once I set the hook, that fish almost always end up in the boat.

[Casslaw]

It’s very odd to me as well, I’ve never had a hook make this big if a difference, except using light wire hooks with braid and a stiffer rod. Those bend easily but they’ve never failed me. These hooks aren’t bending, they’re simply not penetrating and I know I’m setting the hook hard enough to launch a 1 pounder out of the water!

It’s weird to the point that I’m thinking of removing them from my box completely.

[Whopperstopper]

I think a hook sharpener should be in my boat at all times. Regardless of brands the same has happened to me. But on Douglas lake the fish all have holes in their mouth from being caught so many times. Highly pressured. At least that's what I think.

The hooks can do get dull after a couple fish and a couple swipes here and there through the day is easy enough. A sharp cheap hook is better than a dull expensive one.

[OkobojiEagle]

I think you haven't broken in your rod enough yet.

[okiebass]

Havnt used their worm hooks but i love their treble hooks

[ECobb91]

I haven’t had an issue with the fusion hooks at all. I kinda prefer them over gamas and VMC as they seem to not rust as easily and are just as sharp.

[DrewFlu33]

Are they smaller? I bought some Fusion hooks a while back and they were significantly smaller than Gamakatsu for a given size. I think they were drop shot hooks, though. Technically they were walleye hooks....I was actually buying them for ice fishing walleyes, their size 6 was significantly smaller than Gamakatsu's.

[Casslaw]

Drew, the size is very comparable, plus I could easily get away with a 3/0 hook while throwing a fluke with a 1/8oz weight. These hooks are new out of the package, and appear to be as sharp as anything (other than Trokars!). Today I went back up to my pond with my Gammy tied on. First hit was a nice 3 pounder, same hookset and the hook went in about 1/8” past his nostril and was all the way through.

That fish wouldn’t have gotten off if I let him swim around free lined for 10 minutes.

Its very weird to me, I have NEVER believed that one hook was far superior to another but each fish I caught this morning was stuck! So, I’m giving 15 new hooks to a buddy!

Im an evidenced based person, being an attorney, but as a fisherman this makes zero sense to me! It can’t simply be in my head, I have done this experiment a few times in the last month because I refused to believe that these hooks were somehow sub par. Every time I went back to the Gamakatsu hooks I haven’t lost a fish.

Ill be the first to acknowledge that this doesn’t make sense, but I’m going back to my old reliable Superline EWGs.

[DrewFlu33]

That's pretty wild. I'm sure you've looked them over...the only other thing I can think of is that the barbs may be smaller on the Fusion, and even then I wouldn't think that could make a difference on a hook that size. I did have some issues losing some fish on the G-Finesse drop shot hooks that I wasn't losing on the regular Gamy drop shot hooks that I think was due to the smaller barb on the G-finesse, though again a different ballgame. I've gone completely away from traditional drop shot hooks anyhow since you still lose them on the regular Gamys too.

I went and tried to compare the photos on Tackle Warehouse between the two because this has me stumped and intrigued. I do notice that the Gamakatsu has a sharper bend where the wire turns toward the point while the Fusion is more uniformly round through the bend. Surely something like that couldn't make that much of a difference in locking a fish on? Maybe it does... Even then I'm not confident that it's not just the angle the photo is taken at. If anything I'd think that sharper bend would make the Gamakatsu more prone to breaking.

Interesting stuff! One more lesson in "If it ain't broke..." This is the second one in just about as many weeks for you isn't it, Cass?

[Casslaw]

Yes Drew, sometimes I cannot leave well enough alone! Here is a side by side picture. I noticed the same thing about how the transition from the barb to the hook shank is much more pronounced on the Gamakatsu. The point also appears to be a couple degrees further out, the point of the barb doesn’t point straight to the eye of the hook. I’m stumped!

[Walkabout7781]

Interesting indeed! It appears that the wire size is similar, but to my eye, it looks like the point on the left hook is a little more acute than the one on the right. From your description of the smaller radius just before the point on the Gamakatsu, I figure that's it on the left, and the Fusion is the one on the right?

I would consider opening up the Fusion hook, so the point doesn't point toward the eye of the hook. I'd take another Fusion hook and give it a bit of a twist, so the point is not inline with the rest of the hook ("kirbing"). That aside, I must point out that bending on high quality heat-treated hooks can be a bad thing, leading to breakage. But I'd try it and see how it goes.

Does the package say where the Fusion hooks are made? I'm being positive!

[Casslaw]

Yes Walkabout, the Gamakatsu is on the left, sorry I didn’t point that out.

I don’t know where the Berkley hooks are made, I don’t keep them in their clamshell packages. It doesn’t say on their website either. I know Gamakatsu isn’t an American company but their hooks have always been top notch!

I was thinking about bending the hook point out to match the Gammy but these hooks really do not bend easily and I worried that if I do bend them that I may weaken the hook.

I still find it laughable that I’m having this big of an issue with a worm hook! And I’d laugh at me if I read this but I swear I’ve switched back and forth numerous times because I refused to believe the hook could make this big of a difference. Funny thing is one of the reviews on the Berkley site says that the hooks look great but he can’t keep them on all the way to the boat. For once I can agree with a review!

[Stickworm420]

Ewg hooks with that slick coating sucks i spent a bunch of money on the g finesse hybrids and the fusion 19 the coating makes the bait slide on the hook easy causing it to ball up on the bend ive noticed a lot of fish i hooked were barely hooked and the plastics always slid down the hook i love all the other products but i dont like the ewg hooks witg teflon style coating too slick

[DrewFlu33]

The design of the Berkley with the point right back at the hook eye is it I bet. Definitely didn't see that in the TW photos!

I would consider opening up the Fusion hook, so the point doesn't point toward the eye of the hook. I'd take another Fusion hook and give it a bit of a twist, so the point is not inline with the rest of the hook ("kirbing"). That aside, I must point out that bending on high quality heat-treated hooks can be a bad thing, leading to breakage. But I'd try it and see how it goes.

I've done this with great success on certain jig heads and even regular jigs to dramatically improve hookup percentage. I heard a pro talk about it at one point, maybe Bill Lowen? I was doing it on ice fishing jigs all along (and was a fun, sneaky way to win bets on most fish on long ice fishing trips when you could dramatically cut down on lost fish compared to buddies ), but that gave me the idea to do it on bass jigs. Since, I've never thought to try it on anything aside from small hooks like that Neko style stuff, most of which already have the point offset a few degrees. Good idea to do it on an EWG! Also cool to know that it has a name - I always struggle with describing the process because when you tell someone that you twisted to "offset" point, the word "offset" in the context of a hook usually makes people think of the bend just forward of the eye that holds baits on a Texas rig and they don't get what you're saying.

Ewg hooks with that slick coating sucks i spent a bunch of money on the g finesse hybrids and the fusion 19 the coating makes the bait slide on the hook easy causing it to ball up on the bend ive noticed a lot of fish i hooked were barely hooked and the plastics always slid down the hook i love all the other products but i dont like the ewg hooks witg teflon style coating too slick

I've had great luck with the G-Finesse hybrids, but I do agree with baits sliding down though it only ever was an annoyance and was solved by putting a dab of superglue on the offset of the EWG when threading a bait on. I haven't had issues with lost fish on them, though maybe I've been lucky? You think the bait sliding down is what's causing the lost fish? Or the coating? I mentioned above my issues with losing fish on the G-Finesse drop shot hooks, I attributed it to the almost non-existant barb, but maybe there is something to that coating making the hook slide back out easier?

(I did take my stock of G-finesse hybrids, stick them in my fly tying vise, and wrap some thread around the offset to see if that adds enough grip to avoid using the super glue, but haven't had a chance to try it out just yet).

[Walkabout7781]

There used to be a forum in the New England area that was mostly Smallmouth oriented. Can't recall if it was www.riversmallies.com or something similar, but it went away. Some of those guys were always writing about "kirbed" hooks, but I had to ask WTF (want to fish!) that meant.

I noticed that the Gamakatsu circle hooks are kirbed, and I've sometimes removed that. Didn't seem like the kirbing would allow the hook to get to where circle hooks are supposed to stick the fish.