Hydraulic Steering “play”. Too much?

[NoZero]

2018 200 ProXS 3.0L
Model #: 1200P73BD
Serial #: 2B526486

I feel like there is too much play in the steering.

We bled the system per SeaStar’s instructions, and there was no difference.

This boat chine walks BAD above 63-65... no way to drive through it. Unless someone can tell me that the amount of play we have both on the motor itself and on the steering column is normal, I suspect the play as the reason. It could never be my (lack of) ability. 😳

I’ll try to link a video of moving the motor by hand on the trailer asap.

[tdt91]

A video would help. What prop do you have on the boat and what is your PTP. That boat is a 70 MPH boat set up right, maybe a bit more.
Max RPM's ?

[NoZero]

prop when purchased new was a fury 3 25. We have not adjusted or changed P2P.

We changed it to a fury 4 in 2018. Per mercury’s recommendation, we stayed with a 25 when moving to a 4 blade.

~5350 at 67mph. She is a handful.

My hunch is that it should be turning a 24.

[Jtreed99]

Watch where the steering cylinder meets the ram, the play there should be minimal and that’s the only play bleeding will have an effect on. If the motor play is greater than the cylinder play you need to start looking at mechanical linkages and mounts. This is probably not you but I had a good friend of mine get his first 70 mph boat (Triton) and he couldn’t handle the chine until I had to explain to him that unlike his previous 300 series ranger, max speed did not necessarily coincide with max trim, in his case he was simply overtrimming producing the severe chine walk. (Don’t tell anyone but that good friend of mine was me). A little seat time and I can now do 72-74 all the way down the lake no issues. You definitely likely need the lower pitch prop but that won’t help your walk.

[JOE54]

^^^^^+1 and way to big and mtr prob too low making even harder to drive

[lpugh]

Trimmed level there should be no more than 1/2 in total side to side including the ram movement in the cylinder when shaking the motor right to left, repair any movement other than what is in the cylinder about 1/4 in max
Is this regarding the 2018 Classic? a friend of mine recently got a 2018 classic 200pxs Fury 23 3, Same complaint really bad at 67 up. I have just started trying to help him with this issue, For starter raise the motor to 3.5 P to P. Load the right side of the 100 to 150 lbs heavier. Then raise it 1/4 in at a time to find the best height for your boat. I have never seen a Cat walk this bad until well over 70, I would like to see the results with a 23 four blade on it, I also noticed this boat wants a lot of trim which is no common on cats, I am suspicious this has something to do with the TK II lower unit
I am still researching this problem.
If they all do this, there is no I would ever buy one, so far I have not got any answers on this from bass cat or the forums

[NoZero]

links to videos:

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0F3o...HMlrSkTRYcLt6w

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0Z35...rGF3-u3zSehPeg

also note: This has been this way since new. It’s my first hydraulic steering boat and first Bass Cat- just don’t know what normal is.

[OldTimer57]

I own a 2008 classic with a (roughly) 2014 200 pro XS.

Setup for me:

2.75" PtP
Fury 26p
Silversteer hydraulic steering cylinder.

This boat with my son, my dog and myself (~400 pounds) will run 74 all day long. With zero chine walking. But this is not about the boat or the prop or PtP or anything else but driving skill. It takes some time. Too much trim is your enemy early on. Once you gain the necessary skill, you can trim way beyond what is optimal and not have any chine walking, because YOU are not letting it happen. If you go to the Bass Cat owner's forum, you can find lots of information on chine walking and its elimination.

Clearly first thing is to grab the back of the motor and pull HARD from side to side. You want no more than ¼" of movement at the cylinder. Put a piece of masking tape around the pushrod, then pull the rear of the motor to move the cylinder away from it. If you can create a gap more than ¼", you have to deal with that. Which is almost certainly air trapped in the system. While you are looking, make certain the entire cylinder is not moving when you do this. If it does, check the 4 nuts that mount the cylinder and make certain you check the slack where the cylinder bracket attaches to the tilt tube. There's a knurled sleeve with a set screw in it. Loosen that set screw and see if you can turn that sleeve. If so, tighten it up (move it away from the motor which IIRC means turning it clockwise looking from the motor side (righty-tighty). Tighten until it is snug and then tighten the set screw.

If that was not the problem, or didn't fix the > ¼" movement, it gets a little more difficult. WHERE is the play coming from since it is not the hydraulics. Could be motor mounts, loose bolts between motor and jack plate, loose bolts holding jack plate on transom, etc. Could even be the jack plate itself although I have not seen one of the BCB plates fail in that manner. Not going to be a soft transom on a bass cat which uses a massive solid fiberglass transom.

If you are careful, you will find it. Fix it before monkeying around with props, PtP, witchcraft and voodoo. If the motor is sloppy, you are not going to have much of a chance of eliminating chine walking until you become VERY good at driving. And it will still work you pretty well.

Once you get that fixed, turning a 24p fury should be easy. And you should be spinning that thing up into the rev limiter easily. Ditto for a 25p. And lightly loaded I can spin my 26p just past the advertised 5750 and have seen around 5850 if I run it up slowly to avoid antagonizing the rev limiter. Going down to 23p is not the answer. That should be WAY too small. Are you certain the motor is running OK and you are getting 100% throttle? However, none of that is very important until you remove all slack and then spend some time behind the wheel. If it starts to walk, tap the trim down and try again. You should learn by going to WOT but trimmed down pretty low. Then keep tapping the up trim button (and I mean TAP not hold) and see what happens. Speed will climb and at some point you will start to walk. Tap down. Then tap up again. Each time pay attention to what is happening. Does the bow always tick right first? Left first? Apply a touch of opposite steering before it gets to going. As you get better, you can slightly steer right/left and never let the chine walk start. And before too long, you will be amazed that the walking just goes away. Except that it really doesn't, you just learned how to drive and prevent it from ever starting... Once it starts it is a bit harder to stop, so cut it off at the pass and don't let it start. More on the BCB owner's forum.

[NoZero]

thanks. It may be me, but over the last 2 years, I’ve read everything I could about chine walk.

I have spent considerable time at full throttle bumping the trim and finesse driving to keep it from falling off pad.



It just won’t get past 5250 or 5350 without wallowing like an elephant. It won’t go there without bumping trim, and it walks like a duck when you bump to get there. To get to that 5350, the factory trim gauge shows under the 1/2 way on the trim. That still feels like a lot to me.

[Gamblinman]

Have steering and mounting components inspected by an authorized Mercury mechanic to eliminate these possibilities. There are lots of reasons for chine walk, to include prop, weight, balance, jackplate adjustment and driver.

[Bryanmc57]

thanks. It may be me, but over the last 2 years, I’ve read everything I could about chine walk.

I have spent considerable time at full throttle bumping the trim and finesse driving to keep it from falling off pad.

You might try something as simple as plugging in a different driver. I can't count how many times someone said there was a boat issue until an experienced driver took them for a ride. I do agree with the prop being too big though and could be a contributing factor.

[Savage]

You might try something as simple as plugging in a different driver. I can't count how many times someone said there was a boat issue until an experienced driver took them for a ride. I do agree with the prop being too big though and could be a contributing factor.

+1000 to the first part. Prop might also be too big, but I doubt it will effect chine walk. Chine walk is balancing the hull on the water.

[06 SB]

I tend to believe this is a driving issue. It is possible to have a messed up hydraulic steering but I doubt it. There is no such thing as driving through chine walk. My Cougar chine walked more at 72-74 but lessened after that but never went away. You just have to learn how to drive it. My Sabre does at 67 and never stops. Leave the jack plate height where the factory set it initially. Put on the 24P (ProXS 4 stroke) or 25P Fury (ProXS 2 stroke). Go to the lake with a level and move gear around in the boat to get it level side-to-side with you at the drivers seat. Now you are ready to run. Hammer down and get her up on plane but only trim enough to get the hull slightly out of the water...no more than 25% trim. Just let the boat accelerate. Adjust throttle for the conditions but it is best to have it to the floor. Bump the trim up one click and let it stabilize for 2-3 seconds. Repeat until it just barely starts to walk as the boat wants to flop over, give The steering wheel a quick flick to left. You will feel it stop and maintain the rhythm of the walk. Once you get it, click the trim up again and repeat until the boat reaches maximum speed. Check the trim gauge to see where the needle is and that will be a good starting point for the future. It will change based on loads, passenger size, fuel level, etc but will be a good starting point. I have taught my kids and some fishing buddies to handle chine walk. It is easy once you get it. My advice is to go out alone, and with the intention just to drive the boat, no fishing allowed!

The biggest piece of safety advice when it gets to squirrely for you to TRIM DOWN. DO NOT chop the throttle. You have the potential to bow hook if you do that.

[apdriver]

When I bought my first BassCat, I had to learn how to drive a performance hull. I didn’t know a dang thing about it and had no one to teach me. I asked a lot of questions and read all I could about it. Chine walk is a dynamic reaction to what engine torque and hydrodynamic drag is doing to the hull. I believe this was written by Rick Pierce as he described how to drive a BassCat. I copied it to my notes and all the credit goes to Mr Pierce and BassCat.

Chine walk and controlling it.


Yes, your P2 is Quick... It seems your worried about height and we never consider a height for any rig verses another. There is a window to start when your not stroking and learning just for starters, though not for tweaking. You have. A hydraulic and the gauge does give you a window on your rig for max performance to be notched. Just drive slowly to that notch when your stroking. You will learn that the notch is lower loaded and higher empty.


Also as you point out you have a gross amount of trim and do not need it all. Work up in steps and always remove most wheel torque with the plate as you work our way up. You just want tension on the steering wheel, not a hard pull right. The tension give you some control as you tick or bump the trim up in short taps as you gain performance.


BCB hulls are driven with trim not the throttle. Once you figure out where you want the throttle the range of speed and fuel mileage is dependent on the trim. This characteristic is what gives your hull the extreme fuel efficiency and a part of the dry ride you have. It also is what lets you air it out when your able to achieve it.


Performance will come in steps, your will learn to always keep the nose left of center. The simplest way to explain it is to try and use your left hand to keep the nice to the left about 2" as it tries to go right. It really is simple if your not over trimmed and the movement is extremely subtle, not aggressive jerks. If you let the nose go right you will not be able to control the walk at high speeds. It is simple, nose goes right, you loose control of the motion as up you over correct left and the motion will get more intense with every left to right oscillation as the motor mounts move.


Water is not a solid medium so you have slipping there, then the mounts are all rubber in engines today and you have motion absorption there, hydraulic lines have expansion as you load the steering and that expansion is lost movement as the fluid expands and relaxes the hoses, then you need to check the steering cylinder for tight parts and insure the system is all buttoned up. There is a tension nut on the right side steering tube that can rotate and back off, you will see a securing Allen screw in that compressing nut. It will be under the right cast aluminum arm which is attached on the right cylinder shaft. The expansion in the hoses is why we used the 1500 pound Kevlar hoses always. They reduce volumetric expansion of the hoses by fluid and hydraulic pressure. Last the helm allows a smidge of fluid to slip also.


All of these things allow movement and travel in the boat hull. Focus on keeping the nose left of center just slightly and work your way up in performance with seat time. Slowly bump the trim and throttle in steps, half taps of the trim and a bump of the throttle till you can manage the hull and handle what you are experiencing. You will find a tick down n trim will usually give you more.


It is seat time and this is what seat time is.


First of all the skeg has a curve built into if it is a torquemaster gearcase which I'm assuming it is. You might should have left that alone. It also sounds like you have awakened some performance as it is now chinewalking. You have a lot of seat time needed to get to full potential. Whether you balance your load, lower your engine, raise your engine, change props, do whatever, it will not solve the chine walking issue. The only thing that cures chinewalking is learning how to drive! Some of the things that will help you learn how to drive are:


Trim down until you get better.
Do not try to overachieve.
A 4 blade prop such as a Trophy helps and is a little easier to drive.
Find someone to help you that knows how to drive. (Sounds like everyone you've had in the boat doesn't know how to drive!)


Good luck, have fun, and be careful!


I had a 2001 and a 2002 Cougar that I could not drive at speed. Like you I tried different setups and props before I finally figured it out. My solution was a 4 blade Trophy prop and fill the live wells about 1/2 to completely full. As stated above, not too much trim. Easy to drive with water in the live wells. Good luck.

[apdriver]

I would like to add, as you learn to drive your boat faster and faster, please keep safety in mind. Always wear your life jacket and kill switch. These are high performance speed boats harnessed to a racing engine. Going from a 60mph boat to an 80mph boat increases risks exponentially. Things happen much quicker, water gets harder to read and the boat is actually flying as air packs under the hull.

[NoZero]

Thanks fellas. Let me bring us back to the question at hand. The big question: Did anyone actually watch the video of me shaking the motor while the boat was on the trailer (link also in previous post along with video of steering wheel play)? I would love to hear some comments on whether that seems like normal amount of play to you guys.

I appreciate that we all want our BBC family to be safe on the water, and I'm thankful that you all want the same for me. I think I sense a little misunderstanding about me and.. seat time. I've been driving boats on the water more hours most years than cars for over 30 years. I AM 2 years into a Bass Cat hull, and I do want to understand whether it was rigged properly. The dealer that rigged it is our servicing dealer. If I can't get some outside perspective of whether it is rigged properly, it's difficult to figure out whether to trust this dealer to work on it in the future.

If someone can clear up whether that is a reasonable amount of play in the linked video in my previous post, I would be grateful. If what you see in the video is a normal amount of play, my suspicion is that the boat - being over-propped won't reach that 5500+ rpm without being over-trimmed. Thus excessive chine walk. - In order to get a bead on that, I'd just like to know if the play that you see in the video is the amount of play you guys have on your Pro XS rigs.

[Bryanmc57]

It doesn't appear excessive, but it's hard to be sure with no real frame of reference. Throw a tape measure on it and tell us how much it's actually moving.

[apdriver]

Greg, I watched the videos and compared to my 2013 I think you do have more play. I have a cougar with a 250 on it.

[tdt91]

+1000 to the first part. Prop might also be too big, but I doubt it will effect chine walk. Chine walk is balancing the hull on the water.

Props can effect chime walk, in my case it was too small of a dia and pitch as well. The walk went away completely with a prop change. Sure this is probably rare but it does happen and I can testify to it.

[lpugh]

I watched the video, way to much play.
I would scrap that ram and replace it with a U-Flex, Also to much movement at the tiller attachment point, This is why dumped the seastar for U-Flex, far tighter system
Pretty sure you will need a 24 pitch In a Fury to reach peak RPM