Lithium Cranking Battery?? ALL USER FEEDBACK being gathered here, please...

[Fishfreq]

I have 2 relion hp 100ah lithium’s in parallel. I just got them like a week ago so I only have 3 days on the water with them and I really shouldn’t even do a review but I will. My boat is overkill with electronics....

Anyway now for the real test. I fished 12 hours Saturday with all 4 graphs running and accessories. I fished 8am to 8pm. I ran for maybe 1 hour through the day. Had no issues when I got off the water. I didn’t charge the batteries just to see what I could do Sunday. Sunday I launch the boat at noon and by 3pm I had low voltage alarms. I watched my voltage on the graph go from 12.2 to 10v in a matter of 15 minutes. So I knew it was coming plus it matched my calculation almost exactly. I was surprised they didn’t last longer as I did have quite a bit of run time Saturday and I’ve been hearing how well they charge up when running the big motor. My alternator does work but I’m not sure if it’s putting out full juice. So basically 15 hours of taxing these lithium’s as much as I could to kill them. They never actually died but I’m sure they were on the edge. As I shut everything off and fished the rest of my day without electronics.

This is the part i really wanted to get out to the public as I’ve seen mixed reviews on cold temp operation mainly from ionic as they have taken the lithium bbc crowd by storm. I don’t think anyone with a relion hp posts regularly about their cold weather experience but they claim to work fine on paper and specs. Anyway my boat is outside and it was sitting for 2 days without being touched. I woke up in the morning and there was 2” of snow on the boat. It was 20 degrees outside. I turned the key and the pro xs fired up without hesitation. I’ve seen guys saying they trip their bms at 40 degrees if they don’t run the trim or keep a graph on. But the relion cranked it over at 20 degrees no problem. That was a relief. Today was in the 30s and once again cranked no problem. Once again not much time on these batteries at all but so far some good info to take away. Also to add, my motor 250 pro xs 2 stroke has taken the change to lithium well so far. Nothing out of the normal. It actually starts crisper now than it did with a northstar agm. No issues at wide open for over 15 miles the other night. No issues at idle either. I’ve put 4 hours on the motor with the lithium’s.

Another update. 4/22/2020. Air temp was 21 degrees at 7am and another dusting of snow on the boat. Wind was blowing 20 mph from the north and the boat has been sitting for 2 days without a charger hooked to it or anything running. Motor cranked over without hesitation in the drive way. Probably safe to say 20 degrees and warmer the relions will have no issue starting the 250 pro xs 2 stroke.

That's good to know Haus, that they still work in temps that cold! All I can say is that California weather has me spoiled! Lol you're out in temps I'd just stay home by the fireplace!! I think when it comes to a crank battery, I'm going to go a little large, like 125Ah lithium or bigger, so if I ever go off the deep end like you and buy all kinds of graphs, I can just add another 125Ah and be golden. I'd also like to not charge any of my lithiums over 80% to get a little more cycle life out of them, and less likely to have the overcharge shutdown I've heard about. Sounds like if I do they may last me for LIFE!!

[Fishfreq]

Seems like too much trouble for the cost.

I'll agree with you, it sounds like a lot of trouble, but my last Odyssey crank battery was a shade under 80 lbs. That's heavy. Lead batteries also don't cycle near as long as lithium LifePO4 batteries, so if we're willing to learn to deal with this new tech, the advantages are huge, IMO. To each his own though. I've got a few cars and stuff with batteries, and I'm SOO SICK of battery maintenance, hate lead-acid high self-discharge, hate buying new lead batteries, just over it.

Sounds like a lot of problems would be cured by going with a bigger crank battery, 125Ah or larger, and then never charge it completely full. Should work fine.

[Fishfreq]

I have the Ionic 125 ah as a cranking battery and engine starts every time. But sometimes the Humminbird doesn’t power up until I run the motor for a few minutes. The BMS shows 90% but it takes a few minutes. Could be the Humminbird though. I haven’t tracked it down.

after a few minutes of idle, the Humminbird powers up. I can go all day after that with plenty of power for all electronics and pumps.

Hmmm, interesting. Could it be a wiring issue? Seems like many others cleared up weird problems like that running heavier wire up to their 'birds?

What outboard are you running Basseditor? Why does your Ionic say 90%? Is that just where you left it, no recharge overnight?

[Fishfreq]

I had a 100a Ionic to crank my Yammie 70. Started fine, but when I would make a run from the ramp, that little 70 would overcharge the bat and the BMS would shut down killing my electronics. Ionics said they could fix problem with a software change but I didn't want to trust it. Sent back with no problem. Now using my 5 year old Blue Top again with the extra 35 lbs weight, darn.

That sounds like it's a common problem, with the switch to lithium tech cells. That's hard on an alternator too, when it's spinning full speed, to cut off the charge destination can blow your diode, so I've been told, but sounds like dozens of you have not made a single complaint about blown alternators?

[Phisherman]

Running a Relion 100HP for cranking and all other goodies that would run off that battery and 2 100's ah for my t.m. Had for about 3 yrs now. No issues sense installed. Best investment I think that I could have made.

[Fishfreq]

delete

[Fishfreq]

Running a Relion 100HP for cranking and all other goodies that would run off that battery and 2 100's ah for my t.m. Had for about 3 yrs now. No issues sense installed. Best investment I think that I could have made.

What outboard engine are you crankin' Phish and do you charge that 100Ah Relion to 100% before every trip?

[ammdrew]

No cold start issue here in MN with relion 100hp, 3rd season now. If you are running lithium a and have a cold worry.. because the reality is the battery technology does not do as well when cold a few things that can help.

turn on your electronics when you get to the ramp. Just using some energy will warm the battery.

The best option is to warm the battery... 12v food warmer like they use in pizza delivery boxes is about perfect. They don’t get super hot and they will draw some amps. You should only need it at the start of the day and when We are talking cold we are talking down to freezing temps and below. ( Hell I don’t like to start when it’s that cold and I live in a place where the lakes freeze).

https://www.amazon.com/152X304mm-Sil...9022974&sr=8-3

[Fishfreq]

No cold start issue here in MN with relion 100hp, 3rd season now. If you are running lithium a and have a cold worry.. because the reality is the battery technology does not do as well when cold a few things that can help.

turn on your electronics when you get to the ramp. Just using some energy will warm the battery.

The best option is to warm the battery... 12v food warmer like they use in pizza delivery boxes is about perfect. They don’t get super hot and they will draw some amps. You should only need it at the start of the day and when We are talking cold we are talking down to freezing temps and below. ( Hell I don’t like to start when it’s that cold and I live in a place where the lakes freeze).

https://www.amazon.com/152X304mm-Sil...9022974&sr=8-3

That's a great heater idea Amm-D, for charging in sub-freezing temps too!! Wouldn't flippin' that on an hour before blast-off be a good idea? Or do those lithium cells heat up so fast they don't need any more than a few amps drawn?

[Diesel Pro]

How about cold starting Verado's with lithium. Anyone? I see a lot of recommendations for big AGM with high CCA.

I have the baby L4 Verado and no power steering. I also don't do a lot of cold weather fishing but never know.

[scum_frog]

Falcon 205 with 250 G2...running g3n 12 and two 9's with 360 and mega imaging.....have 1-80ah cranking and 3-60ah all from Amped and ZERO issues....absolutely love these batteries. Have a small tourney sunday so we will see how they do in an all day tourney....have not been able to put them in a hard test yet fishing in detroit river or st clair river but will do so as soon as I get up there. Cant wait! The holeshot and performance has made this boat night and day different. I have fished in as low as 40 degree weather and have had no issues....I think the one morning launching was high 30's and still had no cranking issues as well.....Amped's cranking battery offers 1200 cca so im sure that helps as well!

[Diesel Pro]

Falcon 205 with 250 G2...running g3n 12 and two 9's with 360 and mega imaging.....have 1-80ah cranking and 3-60ah all from Amped and ZERO issues....absolutely love these batteries. Have a small tourney sunday so we will see how they do in an all day tourney....have not been able to put them in a hard test yet fishing in detroit river or st clair river but will do so as soon as I get up there. Cant wait! The holeshot and performance has made this boat night and day different. I have fished in as low as 40 degree weather and have had no issues....I think the one morning launching was high 30's and still had no cranking issues as well.....Amped's cranking battery offers 1200 cca so im sure that helps as well!

Do you run the 80ah as a house battery for starting and the electronics? That is one thing I have picked up on is the AMPed has big CCA with a bit less AH. Might be the answer.

[Fishfreq]

Falcon 205 with 250 G2...running g3n 12 and two 9's with 360 and mega imaging.....have 1-80ah cranking and 3-60ah all from Amped and ZERO issues....absolutely love these batteries. Have a small tourney sunday so we will see how they do in an all day tourney....have not been able to put them in a hard test yet fishing in detroit river or st clair river but will do so as soon as I get up there. Cant wait! The holeshot and performance has made this boat night and day different. I have fished in as low as 40 degree weather and have had no issues....I think the one morning launching was high 30's and still had no cranking issues as well.....Amped's cranking battery offers 1200 cca so im sure that helps as well!

Wow Scum_frog, that's amazing you're starting that big girl with only an 80Ah battery? That's the smallest I've heard in this thread survey and the other lithium threads. I wonder if Amped is using Lithium Ion not LifePO4 like most of the other prebuilt Lithium's? That or I bet they've over designed that battery, like used 100Ah cells and called it an 80Ah battery? Do Amped have a bluetooth comm app that you can see how many Ah you have available at full-charge? Those tiny lithium jump-start boxes could only contain less than 2 dozen Ah cells in 'em and they do just fine.

From my research, if the battery management system (BMS) is designed for it, even an 80Ah LifePO4 battery could give a 200+ amp starting burst that may be plenty to start most outboard engines. That burst should be less than 5 seconds because any more and the heat from amp draw could smoke your mofset switch in that BMS. Good news is most good BMS have a high amp draw protection built-in that will cut those burst amps within 4 seconds. What's interesting is CCA's for lead acid batteries is different than CCA's from lithium tech, so Amped saying '1200 CCA's may just be that burst capability many prebuilt lithiums have.

FYI, I've found the Ionic, Battleborn, etc brand batteries most here are using only have a BMS inside that's rated for about 100a continuous, but they're starting big 250 hp outboards with them no problem.

[bobcoy]

These are a couple dual purpose batteries from relion.50 and 100amps
https://relionbattery.com/products/lithium/rb50-hp
https://relionbattery.com/products/lithium/rb100-hp
All specs included. Bob

[Fishfreq]

Thanks Bob!

[BoatNoobie]

I bought an Amped Outdoors 60aH starting battery a month ago.

It is powering a 2019 Mercury 115 ProXS 4-stroke CT. I have 2 Humminbird Helix and a Garmin 93sv Plus displays on the boat.

On my first 2 outings, my Hummingbirds would shut down on me when I left the launch at full throttle. I can try pressing the power button while on plane. I see the display come on but shit off immediately. Even throttling down they wouldn't stay on. Once I got to my fishing spot and went into neutral, then they powered on. Also stayed on the rest of the day without issue. The Garmin was unaffected.

Well on my third outing, right when I started the motor and waited at the dock in neutral. I noticed my motor surging slightly. After my first 2 outings, I turned on the voltage displayed of my Helix on console. I could see the voltage was very erratic. Bouncing from 12 to 16v. It was mostly in the 13v range though. But like I said, it wouldn't stabilize. Crazy range.

I left the launch and of course the Hummingbirds died. I get to the fishing spot, Turn them on. I left that spot to go to another. Units died again. This time, they kept shutting down whenever I applied any throttle. Btw, this was at a camping trip on a lake that has high rocks all over. Not safe without proper maps.

I was thinking it could be this lithium battery since others are stating something similar or maybe my motors stator or voltage regulator . I went to the store and bought the Duracell AGM 31 battery.
Started motor . Voltage was stable. No engine surging. Blasted off from launch and all units stayed on. Zero issues now. Just the way it should be.

I wanted to like this Amped Outdoors battery but right now, most likely their BMS isn't configured correctly to work with all motors yet.

[Diesel Pro]

Wow Scum_frog, that's amazing you're starting that big girl with only an 80Ah battery? That's the smallest I've heard in this thread survey and the other lithium threads. I wonder if Amped is using Lithium Ion not LifePO4 like most of the other prebuilt Lithium's? That or I bet they've over designed that battery, like used 100Ah cells and called it an 80Ah battery? Do Amped have a bluetooth comm app that you can see how many Ah you have available at full-charge? Those tiny lithium jump-start boxes could only contain less than 2 dozen Ah cells in 'em and they do just fine.

From my research, if the battery management system (BMS) is designed for it, even an 80Ah LifePO4 battery could give a 200+ amp starting burst that may be plenty to start most outboard engines. That burst should be less than 5 seconds because any more and the heat from amp draw could smoke your mofset switch in that BMS. Good news is most good BMS have a high amp draw protection built-in that will cut those burst amps within 4 seconds. What's interesting is CCA's for lead acid batteries is different than CCA's from lithium tech, so Amped saying '1200 CCA's may just be that burst capability many prebuilt lithiums have.

FYI, I've found the Ionic, Battleborn, etc brand batteries most here are using only have a BMS inside that's rated for about 100a continuous, but they're starting big 250 hp outboards with them no problem.

FWIW I used a simple inexpensive Solar brand battery tester. All batteries fully charged the AMPed did 611, Ionic 125 did 800 Interstate AGM just over 800. All on the same CCA test scale but not at cold temps. Valid test or not, it was same for all batteries.