College Tuition Cost??

[H2Power]

Discussion on Socialism thread got me thinking about the constant call for student debt forgiveness and free college tuition. I went to a state school for an engineering degree that served me well through my career. Granted a more prestigious school name may offer some value, but state schools offer a great value of good education for good price. When I went to school it was quite affordable. Not having any kids, I'm not really in the loop on current cost, so I looked it up. I'm attaching the graph for:

Average 2019-20 Tuition and Fees at Public Four-Year Institutions by State and Five-Year Percentage Change in Inflation-Adjusted In-State Tuition and Fees https://research.collegeboard.org/tr...itutions-state

I'll focus on NY state since that is where I went to school. Eyeballing the graph, it looks like roughly 8-9k/year for in-state tuition, let's just call it 10k with books. So a 4 year degree for tuition and books is roughly 40k, or the price of a new car/truck. If the student can live with parent(s) that seems like a pretty good deal to me. I think the schools are subsidized with taxpayer funds making the cost affordable for all. So, where are the huge piles of debt coming from that needs to be excused? And is offering free education really a good idea? How has that worked out in the public schools?

I'm just trying to understand the problem that some think need solving. So far I'm not seeing the problem. I'd like to hear from some recent graduates or folks with kids in college.

[grandbassslayer]

Personally I went to a local school, worked and paid my own way as I went. Yes I missed out on beer pong and pretty campuses.

[pavi69]

I went to Sam Houston State in Texas. Graduated in 1992. At that time tuition for 12 hours was $428. It is now $4,268. Adjusted for inflation, $428 is now $787, which equates to a 542% increase. They are still in the same buildings and some of the same professors.

[CatFan]

I agree with you. Kids are playing around, partying, changing majors, getting degrees that don’t lead to jobs and families don’t save anything for college. I worked much of time I was in college. Night desk at a motel and cashier, stocking and janitor at a drug store chain. I was a good, dependable worker, and they were willing to be flexible to even let me study while working if I was on a register during a slow time. I got financial aid because of my parents’ income, they helped and i paid some too. I owed some money when I got through, but compared to the extra income I made because of my degree, it was in no way a burden.

[camman]

I went to undergrad/graduate and came out with some loans which I have since paid back. For me the benefit of going to college was huge in both the social aspect as well as the educational and eventually in my current job/salary. My wife and I are currently saving to help provide some financial resources to our kids to also attend college and not get swamped with debt.

I'm not for a 100% student load forgiveness but I do feel something needs to be done with kids coming out swamped in debt. They also should take responsibility for some of their actions as I believe forgiveness teaches them nothing. Students should take some responsibility as you need to realize how much your loan will be for and how much you will make after. I will also say I think some of these students who have these massive amounts of debt were fooled by predatory schools (for profit).

[519DVX]

One problem is that kids are going to school for degrees that are not marketable, or at least not marketable in the area they want to live. They are told to follow their dreams! How euphoric... I have heard people blame the colleges for offering degrees that aren't in demand. Well, it's a business. If you're willing to pay for it, they will offer it.

Another problem is people chase the name of a school. For example, a guy I used to work with has twins. The son wanted a finance degree and the daughter wanted a nursing degree. We have a community college here with an INCREDIBLE nursing program. Very competitive to get in and the placement rate is outstanding, all with an approximate $4000 annual tuition. We also have multiple great business colleges in the area. They sent both kids to Indiana University at something like $41,000 per year. When I asked why not send her to MCC I got a smirk and he said "she's not going to some low life community college". When asking about his son why he doesn't go to RIT or UofR, he said "Mark Cuban went to IU". La-tee-da...

Then there's the whole "college experience" factor, even if you have good schools in your area.

And then there's kids who go for those lame degrees and can't find a job, so they stay in school and get a Masters all while racking up the debt further.

So there are 4 examples. I'm sure there's more.

I did a 2+2 program with that same community college I mentioned and RIT. I lived at home and commuted the whole time. I could care less about the college experience. To get that, I went and visited my buddies that all went to Syracuse on the weekends. My parents paid for my undergrad if I kept my grades up and stayed home. Granted, not everyone can do that, but even if they can't, the debt load by taking the same approach would be MASSIVELY smaller. Once I had a job, I got my Masters degree 1/2 paid for by the companies I was working for. Actually, I have an informational meeting at 4 to look at potentially another MS degree that will be covered 100%.

[Gsmith223]

Your way off on cost

https://www.savingforcollege.com/cal...ngs-calculator

[519DVX]

Another issue is that as soon as the Federal Government started backing student loans, the rate of increase in tuition went INSANE! I read an article a few years ago about this, but basically college prices used to follow the same trajectory as median income, or some other indicator of income. Colleges wanted to make sure they were going to get their money from the families. The data in this article showed a clear correlation to where the Fed's got involved and started guaranteeing loans. The schools now know they will get paid, so they started jacking tuition rates well beyond what income was increasing.

As they say..."if you think it's expensive now, wait until it's free!"

[tcesni]

Assuming that the student lives at home is bogus. Most colleges are too far away for that to work.

[Goin' Ham]

It's not the tuition cost that kills students imo. Selecting the right major is hard for an 18 y/o, and I somewhat hold the colleges themselves responsible. Seems their sole job is to push every student in high school into a 4 yr university. Society in general also pushes college on everyone (even NBA stars who have no business competing against student athletes).

What college counselors could be doing better is breaking out a calculator to show the potential student how much cash flow they need to generate each month to sustain their college/house/truck/boat loan lifestyle. That would wake up any 18 year old and maybe think twice about that art or history major (no offence intended to these folks).

Many parents are also uneducated in how to help their kids select the right education/career path. Trade schools are wrongly overlooked and those jobs produce many self-employees business owners who are financially free, while their college counterpart is sunk in debt and trapped with a useless piece of paper.

How has that worked out in the public schools?

I do disagree with this. Public schools are just fine. Even the private schools don't teach financial education. This is where parents can pick up the slack.

[CatFan]

Assuming that the student lives at home is bogus. Most colleges are too far away for that to work.

So are they on the moon or some mysterious island where no one lives? I live in the middle of nowhere and have a well regarded state university a half hour away.

[Goin' Ham]

I'm not for a 100% student load forgiveness but I do feel something needs to be done with kids coming out swamped in debt. They also should take responsibility for some of their actions as I believe forgiveness teaches them nothing. Students should take some responsibility as you need to realize how much your loan will be for and how much you will make after. I will also say I think some of these students who have these massive amounts of debt were fooled by predatory schools (for profit).

[Matt1212]

I don't disagree with most of the previous posts, I also don't agree with debt forgiveness. I will say there are more costs accrued than just tuition no matter how you approach college. Is there a less expensive way, yes; and that works for some. For me going to college (full experience) was always a goal and was a big part of my life

[The Bass Junkie]

The school I went to was around 4500 a semester when I started there in 2006, I was working and paying for school taking 2-3 courses a semester and just paying by the hour. 2008 happened then the feds took over lending. Prices skyrocketed. When I graduated it was 9800 a semester, now its around 12k.

I Could have saved about 10-20k going to a state school, but I wanted the program I was in, with certain economists as professors. I think my education was worth it...but federal student aid really screwed all the numbers up...

I do not agree with loan forgiveness...it will exacerbate the issue. I knew what I borrowed, and I knew what I signed for. I did not borrow money for housing, food, living expenses like some of my friends did. They have drastically different debts than I do because of it. My student loan payment is about 500/mo after doing consolidations..

Many people in college have no business being there, trade schools are one of the best value deals and people balk at it now. If I was to do my life over I would have joined the army then went to electrical school when I was done. My master electrician makes serious money.

[H2Power]

I do disagree with this. Public schools are just fine. Even the private schools don't teach financial education. This is where parents can pick up the slack.

I agree, parents are critical component of kid's education, which is unlucky for some kids. Unfortunately anything free is often undervalued. And that would be a potential problem with free college.

[06 SB]

Having put two kids through college recently, there are a ton of other fees and costs that most times exceed tuition. $10K per year is not far off for a good ball park of tuition and books. Then you can add in a lot of colleges require freshman to buy a meal plan whether they live on campus or not. Those are normally 6-9K per year...ridiculous. Then you add in all the other fees you have to pay - lab fees, parking, just-because-they-can fees and they all add up to about level of the tuition bill!. It is stupid. If your kid wants to join a fraternity or sorority...hold on to your savings account!

If anyone is interested, look at the salaries of the administration of universities. GA has a Hope scholarship that was supposed to pay tuition for students for four years at an in-state college but the student has to maintain a 3.0. Since that was enacted salaries sky rocketed and then came the addition of fees. Now, it only pays for partial tuition as it cannot keep up with the increases. There is still a small percentage that get tuition paid but the program is just a shadow of what it used to be.

[H2Power]

It's not the tuition cost that kills students imo. Selecting the right major is hard for an 18 y/o, and I somewhat hold the colleges themselves responsible. Seems their sole job is to push every student in high school into a 4 yr university. Society in general also pushes college on everyone (even NBA stars who have no business competing against student athletes).

What college counselors could be doing better is breaking out a calculator to show the potential student how much cash flow they need to generate each month to sustain their college/house/truck/boat loan lifestyle. That would wake up any 18 year old and maybe think twice about that art or history major (no offence intended to these folks).

Many parents are also uneducated in how to help their kids select the right education/career path. Trade schools are wrongly overlooked and those jobs produce many self-employees business owners who are financially free, while their college counterpart is sunk in debt and trapped with a useless piece of paper.

Good points made, similar to some other posts ... so instead of student loan forgiveness and free tuition could taxpayer money be better spent on early career development and grammer/high school guidance? How about classes in finance and budgeting? Are vocational classes still offered at high schools? If not, should they be? Seems like this would be a better approach.

[Dixie-Raven]

I did 2 years at a community college and then transferred into a 4 year university, both in the same state. I finished only owning about $13K in student debt which I paid off in a few years. This was back in 2003 timeframe. I lived at home for the community college portion and then shared an apartment with 2-3 other students off campus at the university.

[CatFan]

I agree, parents are critical component of kid's education, which is unlucky for some kids. Unfortunately anything free is often undervalued. And that would be a potential problem with free college.

Parents are THE critical component of kids’ education. Not to diminish the key role teachers play, but all the kids have access to a teacher. All the kids don’t have access to caring, encouraging, rule-enforcing parents. It does suck for some kids, and it would be great if guidance counselors could fill the gap, but it doesn’t usually happen.

We encouraged our kids to run for student body offices, to participate in things that looked good on on resumes and to be involved in activities that made them well-rounded people and helped them learn what they might want to do in life. Student council president, 4H club officers, weekend college camps in fields that interested them, running their own summer business from 14 to 19, volunteering to help at a local monthly food bank, leading a project that gave valentine balloons and treats to residents at a nursing home. Those things all showed kids who were involved in the world. When they interviewed or applied for college admissions or scholarships, the committees had things to talk about.

Some kids have parents who either don’t know how important those kinds of things are when it comes to getting into a school or degree program or for getting scholarships which aren’t all based on academics. Or, sadly, parents who don’t care.

[CatFan]

Good points made, similar to some other posts ... so instead of student loan forgiveness and free tuition could taxpayer money be better spent on early career development and grammer/high school guidance? How about classes in finance and budgeting? Are vocational classes still offered at high schools? If not, should they be? Seems like this would be a better approach.

Probably so.

Too many adults don’t have basic financial literacy. A local school organizes a big life simulator for juniors from all of the area schools. They bring in professionals from banks, colleges, real estate, car dealers, insurance companies, accountants, Social Security, investment offices, health insurance etc. to run the kids through some life planning. Many of them have no idea how much of a paycheck is gone before you even get it. At the end, they run a simulation through a spreadsheet and there are always a few kids living $40 or $50K a year beyond their means. They then show the kids where they went wrong and suggest corrections. Parents always get a good laugh when the kids bring their results home.