LiveScope testing

[Jbass2]

Echomap 93V plus version 11.2
GLS10 version 2.3

I am going to attempt to post some pictures later today to show the issue below.

Look at the back 1/2 of the screen in forward range. If your forward range is 0-30, then look at 15-30 and see how weak the returns are. If you change the forward range, then the same thing happens. It is always the last 1/2. It has not mattered what the settings are. It is always the same.



IMG_1523.jpg




IMG_1542.jpg



Both pictures were Auto Gain. TVG off and Noise reduction off.

[DonnieG]

Hey Royt, yes indeed it can all be frustrating, and updating multiple networked units brings headaches to some, and no issues to others which is strange for sure. We have so much technology in these units now-a-days updating is a chore to say the least. If it makes you feel any better, I've had all the top brand units, and all brands have updating quirks when networked. I have 3 Ultras and 1 GPSMAP; however, the GPSMAP 1242xsv is dedicated to the Livescope as a stand alone unit only, and I do not have this unit network.

From previous trial and error when updating, I disconnect EVERY cable except the power cable and update each unit individually. Reset to factory defaults, power down, reconnect all cables, power back up and you should be golden. When updating the unit that is the primary unit the Livescope is connected to, keep the GLS10 plugged into the primary unit, and only the power wire for the primary unit. Disconnect everything else. Same process, update, restore defaults, power down, reconnect all cables, power back up and magic. I've recommended this process to several friends and it fixes many bugs...

Some will say you should't have to disconnect all the cables, you should't have to restore defaults, and I don't disagree, BUT IT WORKS! I just avoid the headache, and do it this way no matter what, and I've had ZERO issues myself.

I like this & will use this method with future updates..Too late for present update..
Thanks for the post

[Hooked247]

I like this & will use this method with future updates..Too late for present update..
Thanks for the post

Yes sir, Semper Fi!

[MDBASSNPRO]

Echomap 93V plus version 11.2
GLS10 version 2.3

I am going to attempt to post some pictures later today to show the issue below.

Look at the back 1/2 of the screen in forward range. If your forward range is 0-30, then look at 15-30 and see how weak the returns are. If you change the forward range, then the same thing happens. It is always the last 1/2. It has not mattered what the settings are. It is always the same.



IMG_1523.jpg




IMG_1542.jpg



Both pictures were Auto Gain. TVG off and Noise reduction off.

What I have found in 6’ of water auto low gain is still too high...try 50 and adjust from there.
Also it looks like your forward Vu need to be raised 30 degrees on the mount. Facing down too much.

[LWINCHESTER2]

What I don't understand is some of us are having major issues and some like Leonard are not having any.

I think the answer to that is the depth and range settings. Many of the posts have to do with no longer being able to see their lure. The range setting impacts how large things are on the screen. Ordinarily I have the depth set to 50-60 and the range set to 80 , sometimes more, and I'm not looking to see my lure. I'm just looking for the fish when I'm looking. The typical scenario for me is see the fish on LVS. Note the depth and range. Make that cast. Once I do that my eyes are glued to my fishing line.

[LWINCHESTER2]

I did a forced update back to v16.00 LVS v2.10
When it finished and the units rebooted I got this bootup screen. I've never seen that before. Back when v16.00 was released and installed this was not the bootup screen. I'm pretty sure this is some kind of warning. Units are still operational but I am not going to be running this version. I'm going to try and put my units back to the latest version, if they will boot one more time. These are GPSMAP unit.

[brettw]

Call and ask about the red screen

[LWINCHESTER2]

Closed today. I sent in an email though with the pic attached.

[Jbass2]

What I have found in 6’ of water auto low gain is still too high...try 50 and adjust from there.
Also it looks like your forward Vu need to be raised 30 degrees on the mount. Facing down too much.

@MDBASSNPRO - I am fairly OCD in following directions. My transducer is mounted on the starboard side of the trolling motor, and it is orientated just like the picture in the instructions show.
Is it going to screw it up if i position it differently than the directions say? Or do a lot of people relocate the position of the transducer until they get a good image?

[MDBASSNPRO]

Jbass - gotcha. I am too but once I posted a pic the gurus corrected mine.
On starboard side forward vu the bottom array is horizontal/parallel to water.

[MonteSS]

lsmount.jpg

[Jbass2]

Thanks for clarifying. I do have it orientated like the picture. I just put the 2.33 update on it this weekend to replace the 2.3. Hopefully that helps.

[LWINCHESTER2]

Got the answer to the red screen in above post. #26. Garmin does not recommend doing forced updates to older versions. When forced updates to older versions are done, sometimes the graphics package doesn't load properly. That's indicated by the red screen. Also, they have seen that updating back to current version doesn't always correct the graphics and the unit has to be sent in to fix that.

[Royt]

Ouch! That's why we need an official update from Garmin to fix the update to fix the update with the perspective view. Whew!

[DonnieG]

Got the answer to the red screen in above post. #26. Garmin does not recommend doing forced updates to older versions. When forced updates to older versions are done, sometimes the graphics package doesn't load properly. That's indicated by the red screen. Also, they have seen that updating back to current version doesn't always correct the graphics and the unit has to be sent in to fix that.

Leonard, what are you going to do next? I am going out again today to do more testing on my "FIX" software

[TOUCH OF CLASS]

Seeing your lure is a game changer if that’s not happening than it’s useless imo .Its amazing how far off you are from the fish in just fishing and with scope you could watch your lure go down to the fish and be using the strike zone.Millons if crappie are being caught with scope so maybe it’s a purpose no see the lure update

[brettw]

Seeing your lure is a game changer if that’s not happening than it’s useless imo .Its amazing how far off you are from the fish in just fishing and with scope you could watch your lure go down to the fish and be using the strike zone.Millons if crappie are being caught with scope so maybe it’s a purpose no see the lure update

Precisely!!!
I had 2.2 version originally.
Then updated 2.3
Then updated 2.33
Finally i got 2.2 back on and wonderfully!
I went out today and had my awesome
Livescope back!!!

Garmin, if you read this let me help you:
When you make something awesome, DONT
SCREW IT UP WITH BOLOGNA THEN MAKE
YOUR CUSTOMERS FIGURE OUT HOW TO
FIX IT. WHAT STUPIDITY!! DON'T TAKE THE
WHEELS OFF THE BMW

[LWINCHESTER2]

Today I tested two versions of the software for GPSMAP units. Previously I did a forced update to V16.00 which included v2.10 for LiveScope. So that is what I started with. I recorded the videos using ActiveCaptain. The videos at the link below are the unedited copies. Then on-the-water I updated to the latest version. That is 18.10 with v2.33 for Livescope. The v2.33 actually reverted to the gain tables of v2.20 that was released in GPSMAP version 17.10. Because of the time, those were the only versions I tested and based on the results I see no need for any additional testing. I do not have the market cornered on this kind of testing. What I am showing here, you can replicate. I simply suspended spark plugs with fishing line under a floating jug. If you wanted to focus on seeing your lure, you could repeat it using your favorite lure and post it here. I encourage you to do that an also to do it in a way that others could replicate it.


I had some wind blowing and the LVS32 in on the shaft of the TM, so I was not pointing directly at the targets 100% of the time. In the videos you will see rising columns of air and at times, some fish. Look at the attached sample to see how to identify the targets as they appear on screen. The names of the files tell you a lot about them. For example v16.00v2.10-Gain40.NR-Off.TVG-Off-P50T17.mp4 means the recording was done using release 16.00 containing v2.10 for the GLS10. Gain40 means the gain was manually set on 40. MR=Off means Noise Rejection was Off, TVG=Off means TVG was off P50T17 means the targets were first picked up at 50 ft, 17 seconds into the video.


https://tinyurl.com/versions1618




v16.00v2.10-Gain40.NR-Off.TVG-Off-P50T17.mp4
v16.00v2.10-Gain50.NR-Off.TVG-Off-P70T13.mp4
v16.00v2.10-Gain60.NR-Off.TVG-Off-P80T16.mp4
v16.00v2.10-Gain60.NR-Med.TVG-Off-P80T44.mp4


v18.10v2.33-Gain40.NR-Off.TVG-Off-P50T30.mp4
v18.10v2.33-Gain50.NR-Off.TVG-Off-P65T17.mp4
v18.10v2.33-Gain60.NR-Off.TVG-Off-P80T19.mp4
v18.10v2.33-Gain60.NR-Med.TVG-Off-P80T26.mp4


v18.10v2.33-Gain60.NR-Med.TVG-Med-P80T32.mp4
v18.10v2.33-Gain60.NR-Med.TVG-High-P73T12.mp4




Here are my observations from looking at the above videos.
1. There were no dead zones in either v2.10 or v2.33. It is simply a matter of pointing so that the target is in the cone.
2. At close ranges, 50 ft and less, a gain setting of 40 will show fish.
3. At a gain setting of 50 the ghost trees begin to show. A Noise Rejection of Medium does a good job eliminated them but still shows the fish.
4. A gain setting of 60 makes the ghost trees prominent but also extends the range of fish detection.
5. A TVG setting of Low to Medium did not eliminate shallow targets at range. I did not spend enough time investigating the effect of TVG. I have seen TVG on High eliminate close returns. I'm left to wonder dead zones and TVG settings.


Other Conclusions
Ghost trees, for some of you, seems to be a new phenomena. They have always been there from the original release and in every version since. You do not need a high Gain setting to see fish, but you may to see your lure. Turning the gain up, in every release will produce the ghost trees. The first resort to reduce or eliminate them is Noise Rejection. Second is TVG, but setting TVG on high can create a dead zone.


When, as I approached the targets and they disappeared from the screen, I suspected that dead zone. I noted the distances, usually 0-20 ft. So instead of approaching the target I moved to each of those distances and rotated the TM back and forth. Every time, at every distance, the targets were picked up. From this I concluded that the disappearing targets is a matter of pointing or settings. Subjectively, it seems to me that the close in cone width, 0-20 is not as wide as when I first started using LiveScope. I have no evidence of that. It just seemed that way to me.


I see no reason to suspect that if this was done on echomap Plus, UHD, or Ultra units that there would be any difference whatsoever. It is my understanding the the GLS10 box does all the sonar processing and then sends that data to the unit to display. The size of the screen and the resolution would have some effect on how it is displayed but should not change whether it is displayed.


The bottom line to all this is that I see no reason to avoid using the latest release. But it's a free country. Use whatever release you want.

[TOUCH OF CLASS]

I was just out today had a buddy with that was in Florida all winter and he even said where’s the lure we use to see ?He has seen the old version and new and said that horrible.maybe there’s no fixing it I don’t know but it’s no where close to what it was .Iam running a separate mount so it’s very stationary not moving with the trolling motor.

[pfisher]

Today I tested two versions of the software for GPSMAP units. Previously I did a forced update to V16.00 which included v2.10 for LiveScope. So that is what I started with. I recorded the videos using ActiveCaptain. The videos at the link below are the unedited copies. Then on-the-water I updated to the latest version. That is 18.10 with v2.33 for Livescope. The v2.33 actually reverted to the gain tables of v2.20 that was released in GPSMAP version 17.10. Because of the time, those were the only versions I tested and based on the results I see no need for any additional testing. I do not have the market cornered on this kind of testing. What I am showing here, you can replicate. I simply suspended spark plugs with fishing line under a floating jug. If you wanted to focus on seeing your lure, you could repeat it using your favorite lure and post it here. I encourage you to do that an also to do it in a way that others could replicate it.


I had some wind blowing and the LVS32 in on the shaft of the TM, so I was not pointing directly at the targets 100% of the time. In the videos you will see rising columns of air and at times, some fish. Look at the attached sample to see how to identify the targets as they appear on screen. The names of the files tell you a lot about them. For example v16.00v2.10-Gain40.NR-Off.TVG-Off-P50T17.mp4 means the recording was done using release 16.00 containing v2.10 for the GLS10. Gain40 means the gain was manually set on 40. MR=Off means Noise Rejection was Off, TVG=Off means TVG was off P50T17 means the targets were first picked up at 50 ft, 17 seconds into the video.


https://tinyurl.com/versions1618




v16.00v2.10-Gain40.NR-Off.TVG-Off-P50T17.mp4
v16.00v2.10-Gain50.NR-Off.TVG-Off-P70T13.mp4
v16.00v2.10-Gain60.NR-Off.TVG-Off-P80T16.mp4
v16.00v2.10-Gain60.NR-Med.TVG-Off-P80T44.mp4


v18.10v2.33-Gain40.NR-Off.TVG-Off-P50T30.mp4
v18.10v2.33-Gain50.NR-Off.TVG-Off-P65T17.mp4
v18.10v2.33-Gain60.NR-Off.TVG-Off-P80T19.mp4
v18.10v2.33-Gain60.NR-Med.TVG-Off-P80T26.mp4


v18.10v2.33-Gain60.NR-Med.TVG-Med-P80T32.mp4
v18.10v2.33-Gain60.NR-Med.TVG-High-P73T12.mp4




Here are my observations from looking at the above videos.
1. There were no dead zones in either v2.10 or v2.33. It is simply a matter of pointing so that the target is in the cone.
2. At close ranges, 50 ft and less, a gain setting of 40 will show fish.
3. At a gain setting of 50 the ghost trees begin to show. A Noise Rejection of Medium does a good job eliminated them but still shows the fish.
4. A gain setting of 60 makes the ghost trees prominent but also extends the range of fish detection.
5. A TVG setting of Low to Medium did not eliminate shallow targets at range. I did not spend enough time investigating the effect of TVG. I have seen TVG on High eliminate close returns. I'm left to wonder dead zones and TVG settings.


Other Conclusions
Ghost trees, for some of you, seems to be a new phenomena. They have always been there from the original release and in every version since. You do not need a high Gain setting to see fish, but you may to see your lure. Turning the gain up, in every release will produce the ghost trees. The first resort to reduce or eliminate them is Noise Rejection. Second is TVG, but setting TVG on high can create a dead zone.


When, as I approached the targets and they disappeared from the screen, I suspected that dead zone. I noted the distances, usually 0-20 ft. So instead of approaching the target I moved to each of those distances and rotated the TM back and forth. Every time, at every distance, the targets were picked up. From this I concluded that the disappearing targets is a matter of pointing or settings. Subjectively, it seems to me that the close in cone width, 0-20 is not as wide as when I first started using LiveScope. I have no evidence of that. It just seemed that way to me.


I see no reason to suspect that if this was done on echomap Plus, UHD, or Ultra units that there would be any difference whatsoever. It is my understanding the the GLS10 box does all the sonar processing and then sends that data to the unit to display. The size of the screen and the resolution would have some effect on how it is displayed but should not change whether it is displayed.


The bottom line to all this is that I see no reason to avoid using the latest release. But it's a free country. Use whatever release you want.

If you had done the test in a tree or brush pile the dead zone would be obvious. Two days ago I was watching crappie approach the boat, disappear at about 10 feet and reappear as they passed under the trolling motor. When I eased up to the pile sections of the pile were gone as it went under the boat.

I still caught fish but it's not what it was.