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  1. #1
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    Spinning Rod Build

    So how do you find information on guide spacing?

    The only thing I can find is the 3rd choke guideneeds to be 27mm x spool diameter

    From spool face. Howdo you determine the remaining guides?

    I did find a excel down load that you enter measurements in but looked to only be for casting rods.

    Thanks




  2. Member bob o's Avatar
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    #2
    mudhole has spacing guiudes on their web site or youtube, i think getbit outdoors has spacing guides on their web site also

  3. Member
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    #3
    +1 for Mudhole spacing. I just did my first build with a kit from mudhole and it was great. The only thing that kind of made me second guess the spacing was the CRB guide kit had 10 guides + tip top for a 6’6” rod. I have some 7’3 rods with less guides.
    1995 Ranger 481v
    1995 Johnson Fast Strike 175hp

  4. young angler 188Musky's Avatar
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    #4
    Guide spacing charts are for turning a potentially high performance custom rod into a run of the mill rod. Guide placement is one of two or three things that wring the most performance out of a custom rod. I'd encourage you to learn how to set up true custom guide spacing.

    Put that choke guide on the blank at 27x, then tape the rest of them on. One guide for every foot of the rod, plus one; unless we are building a rod longer than 9 or 10 feet. Then use a few more. Tape the first couple 4 inches from the tip, and each other, get progressively further apart as you reach the choke guide.

    Put your reel on the rod, and put in a rod holder. Run the line through the guides and put a weight on the line so the rod is bent like you have a fish on.

    Move the guides beyond the choke guide so as to distribute the stress evenly along the blank. It is ok to move the choke guide a little. It is also best to remove a guide if you can distribute the stress sufficiently. If it looks right, it is right, no matter what any chart says.

    Move the guides before the choke guide so that the line from the reel does not change direction as it flows to the choke guide. I like to draw a line from the center of the reel spool to the outer edge of the choke guide, then position the guides so the line just touches the outer edge of the ring insert.

    Then go cast with the rod, with the guides taped on. Tinker and tweak and experiment with the guide placement of the first couple guides, observing distance and line flow. Use a plug that flies straight if the line flow is smooth, but wobbles if it doesn't, like a Zara Spook with no hooks.

    If it looks right, and it casts right it, is right. You will be amazed at the difference when you get the placement dialed in.
    Last edited by 188Musky; 02-20-2020 at 07:50 PM.

  5. Member
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by 188Musky View Post
    Guide spacing charts are for turning a potentially high performance custom rod into a run of the mill rod. Guide placement is one of two or three things that wring the most performance out of a custom rod. I'd encourage you to learn how to set up true custom guide spacing.

    Put that choke guide on the blank at 27x, then tape the rest of them on. One for every foot of the rod, plus one; unless we are building a rod longer than 9 or 10 feet. Then use a few more.

    Put your reel on the rod, and put in a rod holder. Run the line through the guides and put a weight on the line so the rod is bent like you have a fish on.

    Move the guides beyond the choke guide so as to distribute the stress evenly along the blank. It is ok to move the choke guide a little. It is also best to remove a guide if you can distribute the stress sufficiently. If it looks right, it is right, no matter what any chart says.

    Move the guides before the choke guide so that the line from the reel does not change direction as it flows to the choke guide. I like to draw a line from the center of the reel spool to the outer edge of the choke guide, then position the guides so the line just touches the outer edge of the ring insert.

    Then go cast with the rod, with the guides taped on. Tinker and tweak and experiment with the guide placement of the first couple guides, observing distance and line flow. Use a plug that flies straight if the line flow is smooth, but wobbles if it doesn't, like a Zara Spook with no hooks.

    If it looks right, and it casts right it, is right. You will be amazed at the difference when you get the placement dialed in.
    Never heard of doing it this way before. Guess I really need to do some deep research it’s not as cookie cutter as I thought it would be
    1995 Ranger 481v
    1995 Johnson Fast Strike 175hp

  6. Member
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    #6
    The 27x method is an excellent method.

    You can also Google Fuji's NGC (New guide concept) and KR Concept as well. All these methods work very well, and Anglers Resource has two different programs on their site to help you these two guide spacing, although I rarely use the programs. When I did years ago, it was just to use as a reference. These programs will give you exact spacing and instructions for your stripper, reduction and choke guides.

    Stripper guide is the first guide (closest to the reel). Reduction guides are the next few guides that brings the line down closer to the blank, and the choke guide is the first of the running guides.

    You'll understand a bit more after some research. Although it's an outdated method, I'd also recommend looking up a cone of flight (COF) layout so that you get a general understanding of different types of layouts.

    Look up how to static test your rod as well (on the anglers resource site). Static testing will be used on your runner guides for your build.

    P.S. There's an article on the 27x method on the Anglers Resource site as well.

  7. Banned
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by 188Musky View Post
    Guide spacing charts are for turning a potentially high performance custom rod into a run of the mill rod. Guide placement is one of two or three things that wring the most performance out of a custom rod. I'd encourage you to learn how to set up true custom guide spacing.

    Put that choke guide on the blank at 27x, then tape the rest of them on. One guide for every foot of the rod, plus one; unless we are building a rod longer than 9 or 10 feet. Then use a few more. Tape the first couple 4 inches from the tip, and each other, get progressively further apart as you reach the choke guide.

    Put your reel on the rod, and put in a rod holder. Run the line through the guides and put a weight on the line so the rod is bent like you have a fish on.

    Move the guides beyond the choke guide so as to distribute the stress evenly along the blank. It is ok to move the choke guide a little. It is also best to remove a guide if you can distribute the stress sufficiently. If it looks right, it is right, no matter what any chart says.

    Move the guides before the choke guide so that the line from the reel does not change direction as it flows to the choke guide. I like to draw a line from the center of the reel spool to the outer edge of the choke guide, then position the guides so the line just touches the outer edge of the ring insert.

    Then go cast with the rod, with the guides taped on. Tinker and tweak and experiment with the guide placement of the first couple guides, observing distance and line flow. Use a plug that flies straight if the line flow is smooth, but wobbles if it doesn't, like a Zara Spook with no hooks.

    If it looks right, and it casts right it, is right. You will be amazed at the difference when you get the placement dialed in.
    Another reason to do it this way is spinning reels have a lot of variances in height dimensions and angles. Use the spinning reel you intend on using for the rod when adjusting guide placement.

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    #8
    Thanks for the help.

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    #9
    zfast, go to Get bit or mudhole tutorial which are excellent info. When I align and perminately attach guides to the rod blank I generally follow these steps.
    1) Align the tip top to the center of the reel seat.
    2) Determine how many guides I want on the rod.
    3) Attach a length braid fishing line I use braid to be able to see the line better to the center of the reel seat the purpose of rod guides are to allow the fishing line to move along the rod without coming in contact with the rod itself. then I'll run the braid through the selected guides then run the braid through the tip top and attach enough weight to put a good flex in the rod blank.
    4) Temporarily attach each guide using thin strips of tape to the guide foot to the rod blank.
    5) Continue this until all guides are attached to flexed rod blank.
    6) Guides may be moved and adjusted to where fishing line contacts is near contacting the rod blank.
    7) Once you are satisfied with the guide placement, detach weight, remove fishing line then proceed with permanently attaching guides to rod blank.

    Hope this helps but go to the tutorials they are the best way to see!
    Last edited by Speedboat; 02-21-2020 at 10:40 AM.

  10. Member
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    #10
    I learned from a builder named Don Morton years ago how to set up my rods. You can buy a chart that Don made and sold now at mudhole. If you lay your rods out by this chart you will not have to do a lot of tweaking. The problem with the 1 guide per foot plus one is it does not take into consideration the action of a rod. Faster action lighter powered rods will need more guides to protect the blank than a slower heavy powered action blank. If you are having angles instead of a smooth flow following the arc of your blank through the guides and deflecting the rod 90 degrees then you don't have enough guides on. Using the Morton graph saves a lot of time and messing around with guides. However, if your system works for you and you are happy with it, by all means continue doing so. Lots of ways to skin a cat in rod building.

  11. 165 Custom Baits Hair Jig's Avatar
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    #11
    All I can add is that MOST guide charts have too many guides. On a 6' fast action blank I seldom use more than 5 guides unless I'm trying to accomplish something out of the ordinary. Never had any complaints about how the rods functioned for me or any of the guys I built for.

    It's a lot off the "scale" for what many are doing and especially for what the tutorials say, but a 30 / 20 / 12 / 10 / 8 works well for my lighter bass rods.

  12. Member
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    #12
    Some helpful hints ........... when loading the rod for static load guide placement (placing your running guides) use the two line method. It is a MUCH better way of doing it than using only one line. Attach a short piece of line to your tip top. (I usually tie it to the frame) This will be the line you use to load the rod. Run your line from the reel through your guides. The only guides you need attached to the rod at this time are your reduction train guides and your first running train guide, which is your choke guide. The other running guides can be threaded on the line and left hanging until it's time to attach them. Now pass the line through your tip top and attach a weight to the end of that line. I usually use a 1/4 or 3/8 oz worm weight. Set the rod up horizontally and on the short piece of line you attached earlier, hang enough weight on it to load the rod.

    You can now easily move the guides into their proper positions because the line running through them only has a light weight attached to it, versus the weight it would take to load the rod. It makes it a LOT easier attaching the guides to the blank. I used to use tape to attach the guides to the blank, but it was a PITA. I now use rubber tubing of various IDs (available from Mud Hole) that I cut into any width I want. Slide them over the tip of the blank before I put on the tip top. It's easy to slide the foot of the guide inside the tubing, and it makes it easy to slide the guides along the blank to their proper position.

    Don't let some formula of rod length + 1, or some guide spacing chart, or the number of guides that may come in a guide kit tell you how many guides you'll need. Let static load guide placement show you. As was said in above ....... guide placement charts are fine if you want a rod like any other old rod. But why would you want that? You probably took up building rods because you want better than just ok.

    And this is just a suggestion as far as what kind of guide train you may want to use. Personally I would use a KR concept guide train that ogrich31 referenced above. IMO it is hands down the best spinning rod guide train you can use. Using the KR concept software on the Angler's Resource web page, it is extremely easy to set up, works for any type of line, and will substantially out cast NGC and COF guide trains. It is the reel deal.

  13. Member
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    #13
    Adding onto this discussion, are there any benefits to using Fly guides as your running guides rather than standard insert ones? I’ve seen some high end rods that use the fly guides and a few ice fishing rods I have do too.
    1995 Ranger 481v
    1995 Johnson Fast Strike 175hp

  14. young angler 188Musky's Avatar
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    #14
    It depends on the way the rod I used.

    Fly guides provide an advantage in weight reduction which in turn will make the rod more sensitive, and more of an efficient casting tool. One should never underestimate the advantages in weight reduction on a rod build.

    However, there are trade-offs. Fly guides will groove easily, and create the corresponding issues with grooved guides.

    In my opinion, in practical, real world fishing situations, traditional wire fly guides are not a viable alternative for spinning rods. Single foot guides with an insert of any of various materials are a much better option.
    Last edited by 188Musky; 02-27-2020 at 08:34 AM. Reason: Better word

  15. 165 Custom Baits Hair Jig's Avatar
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by 188Musky View Post
    In my opinion, in practical, real world fishing situations, traditional wire fly guides are not a viable alternative for spinning rods. Single foot guides with an insert of any of various materials are a much better option.
    Agreed. If weight is a concern (and it should always be) Fuji SiC guides are always a good choice.