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  1. #1
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    Hydraulic Jack Plates on Tin Boats, worth the money? Safe?

    Hello All,

    First post, been reading and going thru the different forums. I haven't seen any info on Tin Boats with Hyd Jack Plates, not even sure if its something to consider? I've bought a Tin Boat for a number of safety reasons, the biggest being stumps, lots and lots of stumps and debris. I have had my boat for a little over a year, I've dragged it all over the country, its been great and worked well. It's a G3 Sportsman 1910, Yamaha 150, Minn Kota Ultrex, dual Humminbird - one Mega SI 10" G2 and a 7" SI G2.

    And now to the question, Hydraulic Jack Plates on Tin Boats. Is it something to consider, are they worth the money, how much can they change or effect stability? I'm still getting used to a real boat that's longer than 14-16 feet, and has power to move it above 50mph. The Yamaha 150 is incredibly powerful and gets the boat on plain quickly and its fuel economy seems to be pretty decent. So, being a relative novice, first big boat/motor, should I even consider an addition like a Jack Plate?

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    #2
    Personally, I would look at it differently. Do "they" put hydraulic jack plates on tin rigs and are they safe? Yes. But, as far as needing one, you should ask a question.
    "What's the issue with my boat and will a HJP fix it?" If you answered hole shot, needs more lift, I'd like to get on plane in shallower water. Then yeah a HJP could be a great choice. Just to put one on for the sake of putting one on is not a good idea. But you can fix some issues with a different prop too.
    From reading your post, you don't have any complaints, unless you want to get on plane in shallower water.
    2020 Vexus AVX 1880
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    #3
    zaprod71, thanks for the refining of the question. I don't fish a bunch of skinny water, actually its mostly deeper river impoundments. When traveling around the country we have hit more than a couple that don't get to deep, but those are pretty few. I was fishing up a river when another Tin Boat guy made the mention, he had a four inch set-back on his boat.

    So, being a new boat guy of sorts I thought I would ask. The only upgrade to the boat I've made was a four blade prop vs the factory three blade. I lost about 2mph, I can live with that, not sure how long it takes to get up on plane, but it can't be but a few seconds.

    So after some thought I'm guessing the HJP wouldn't be the best use of the limited funds I have available. Thanks for the thoughtful advice.

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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by AH64ME View Post
    zaprod71, thanks for the refining of the question. I don't fish a bunch of skinny water, actually its mostly deeper river impoundments. When traveling around the country we have hit more than a couple that don't get to deep, but those are pretty few. I was fishing up a river when another Tin Boat guy made the mention, he had a four inch set-back on his boat.

    So, being a new boat guy of sorts I thought I would ask. The only upgrade to the boat I've made was a four blade prop vs the factory three blade. I lost about 2mph, I can live with that, not sure how long it takes to get up on plane, but it can't be but a few seconds.

    So after some thought I'm guessing the HJP wouldn't be the best use of the limited funds I have available. Thanks for the thoughtful advice.
    Did the other person tell you why 4" JP? What type of tin boat was it? mostly flat bottom like yours or deep V?
    Do you have any idea of your current running data? GPS speed, water pressure at WOT and RPM at WOT with current prop? BTW, why did you go to a 4 blade prop? is it a Yammie prop? size?
    Do you know what your Pad to Prop shaft measurement is? what hole is your motor currently mounted? it is about 3/4" per hole up or down.
    There is a lot of information needed to properly improve your performance and fun factor.

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    #5
    digthemup, He was running a Lowes, mostly flat, semi V like mine. We never got into the why of his installation of the four inch setback. My GPS speed is around 48mph, 6000rpm when perfectly trimmed, I have no idea how to figure out water pressure at WOT. Right now my motor is set in the second hole from the top, I'm going to need to figure out how to measure Pad to Prop, that's a new request I haven't had before.

    I did order a four bladed prop from Power Tech Marine, it should be here on Wed. Its a 19", I'm currently running a 21", the prop and engine guys I talked to told me to step down one or two inches to recover the RPM I will lose with the extra blade. I know I will lose top end but gain hole shot and maneuverability at slower speeds. I'm sure there are a bunch of other things I'm missing, I'm also beginning to think I should have waited to order anything.
    Stuck with a G3 Sportsman 1910 - Yamaha 150 - Helix 10 Mega Si - Helix 7 SI - Ultrex

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    #6
    digthemup, I found the thread with the proper way to measure the Pad to Prop. When it gets daylight and the lightening stops booming I'll get my levels out and find the answer for you. If there is any other data that you need to help me out please let me know. I appreciate any and all help.
    Stuck with a G3 Sportsman 1910 - Yamaha 150 - Helix 10 Mega Si - Helix 7 SI - Ultrex

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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by AH64ME View Post
    digthemup, He was running a Lowes, mostly flat, semi V like mine. We never got into the why of his installation of the four inch setback. My GPS speed is around 48mph, 6000rpm when perfectly trimmed, I have no idea how to figure out water pressure at WOT. Right now my motor is set in the second hole from the top, I'm going to need to figure out how to measure Pad to Prop, that's a new request I haven't had before.

    I did order a four bladed prop from Power Tech Marine, it should be here on Wed. Its a 19", I'm currently running a 21", the prop and engine guys I talked to told me to step down one or two inches to recover the RPM I will lose with the extra blade. I know I will lose top end but gain hole shot and maneuverability at slower speeds. I'm sure there are a bunch of other things I'm missing, I'm also beginning to think I should have waited to order anything.
    You must have a water pressure gauge on your dash, or you will need 1 to help you with the adjustments or if you do get a JP, which truth be told I don't see why you would need it based on what I have read so far.
    I see on the other post that you found the tread on how to get the P to P, which I believe Don Weed made a sticky for it on 1 of the forums. Let me know what you have. Thanks

    BTW, a 2" down in pitch will bring RPMs down 500-600 and 2-3mph. Normally, 1" down will do it, but my set up is for HP bass rig 10" JP.

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    #8
    Heck yes do it. if you want to have one on your boat go for it.

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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by TxRanger1 View Post
    Heck yes do it. if you want to have one on your boat go for it.
    Reckon GOD gave us freewill to do what we want, but it has been our greatest downfall from the get go doing things haphazardly without truly knowing the reason why or the need to do it in the first place.
    The Preacher said it best in "Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool, when he holds his peace, is counted wise; and he that shuts his lips is esteemed a man of understanding."

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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by AH64ME View Post
    Hello All,

    First post, been reading and going thru the different forums. I haven't seen any info on Tin Boats with Hyd Jack Plates, not even sure if its something to consider? I've bought a Tin Boat for a number of safety reasons, the biggest being stumps, lots and lots of stumps and debris. I have had my boat for a little over a year, I've dragged it all over the country, its been great and worked well. It's a G3 Sportsman 1910, Yamaha 150, Minn Kota Ultrex, dual Humminbird - one Mega SI 10" G2 and a 7" SI G2.

    And now to the question, Hydraulic Jack Plates on Tin Boats. Is it something to consider, are they worth the money, how much can they change or effect stability? I'm still getting used to a real boat that's longer than 14-16 feet, and has power to move it above 50mph. The Yamaha 150 is incredibly powerful and gets the boat on plain quickly and its fuel economy seems to be pretty decent. So, being a relative novice, first big boat/motor, should I even consider an addition like a Jack Plate?

    Paul, I am not familiar with your hull. I will assume it has a pad to run on as opposed to a flat rear half or even a shallow V in the rear. There is a lot of mis information out there on jackplates. Below is a cut and paste of a post I made a while back on the mercury 4 stroke forum. I was just giving some reason why I totally agreed with something Don Weed had said in response to a member and questions about a 150 4 stroke. I hope it will give you some useable information. You might even find that thread interesting. I am adding a link to the original thread my copy and paste came from. Post #25 is Don's post I was responding too. http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=1028631

    Below is the cut and paste:

    Don is 100% correct, and it is true for a boat like the OP or a boat like mine, 20XD with a 250XS. First, what is the purpose of a jack plate? Primary is to allow changing the height of the motor easily. The secondary purpose is to move the prop back into better water for those boats that run a motor very high.

    There is a lot of mis understanding out there on jackplates. The fulcrum is NOT the pad. The fulcrum is the face of the jack plate where the motor is attached. Think of it like this; wrap one arm around the front of the motor cowling and push forward on the prop with the other and attempt to raise the front of the boat. This is what the motor is doing. The farther back you put that fulcrum the harder it is to pick up the front of the boat. As Don said moving the motor back makes the effective length of the boat longer. Pick up a sledge hammer by the very end of the handle. Hold it out parallel to the ground. Now choke up about 6 inches and repeat. Which position is easier to hold the hammer parallel to the ground?

    So why do we move the motor back on high performance boats? Many of these boats run motors very high. I would expect the OP's boat may have the prop centerline 3-4 inches below the bottom of the boat. A boat like mine runs the centerline of the prop 1-3/8" ABOVE the pad, some even more. If you run the motor that high without a jackplate, the prop would be more than half way out of the water. Therefore we have to shove the motor back to where the water is higher relative to the bottom of the boat and is better water. At higher speeds even with my 12" setback my prop arc will have the top blade 1-2 inches out of the water. It is a constant trade off with set back verses lift. In my case I have enough horsepower to weight to move the boat fast enough to start generating lift. Most boats with a pad generate little lift below 60 MPH. You have to stuff air under the hull along with the motor torque to actually "fly" the hull.
    Many think pushing the stern of the boat down is the same as lifting the front, it is not.

    I have no experience with a boat like the OP's but if what Don says is correct about lift it may help to make the effective length of the boat shorter thus getting the boat up a little easier.

    Full disclosure: I stole some of the wording and examples from Paul Nichols over on the Bullet page. Many think Paul is one of the best in setting up high performance boats, I would agree.
    Last edited by gehol; 02-21-2020 at 05:21 PM.

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    #11
    gehol

    I believe that the fella with the Lowe may have put the 4" JP, which I think is the smallest, to easily adjust the motor to proper height for his performance. I agree with you and Don, that unless your rig is an High Performance bass rig, anything other than a little JP to make motor adjustment easier, will make it much harder to carry that bow. I run a 10" Slidemaster 2 7/8" P to P on my '02 Cobra 201DC getting pushed by an '03 Merc 225 EFI worked spinning a worked 25" or 26" pitch Trophy Plus small hub, and a worked 25" Tempest Plus.

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    #12
    I have no experience with any hull other than a Bullet. At first glance I would be led to believe any set up that is 2+inches below the pad would be hurt by a jackplate. Certainly with the prop that deep you would not need the set back to get clean water?
    Have you or can you raise your motor 2-3 inches? Or course that might cause too much slippage on take off. Have you run your boat without a jackplate?
    I am very interested to see how the OP does without the jackplate.I
    You did mean 2-7/8" below the pad?
    On second thought and doing the math in my head a little set back at that depth might be helpful.
    Last edited by gehol; 02-21-2020 at 10:32 PM.

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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by gehol View Post
    I have no experience with any hull other than a Bullet. At first glance I would be led to believe any set up that is 2+inches below the pad would be hurt by a jackplate. Certainly with the prop that deep you would not need the set back to get clean water?
    Have you or can you raise your motor 2-3 inches? Or course that might cause too much slippage on take off. Have you run your boat without a jackplate?
    I am very interested to see how the OP does without the jackplate.I
    You did mean 2-7/8" below the pad?
    On second thought and doing the math in my head a little set back at that depth might be helpful.
    Yea, 2 7/8" prop shaft below pad, which is a double inverted V shaped pad with a small tunnel. Viper Cobras came with a 8" Slidemaster JP, but it would blow at hard turns due to turbulent water, especially after 225EFI got worked some, so I pushed it back a tad more giving it more grip. My Skeeter came without a JP and 150HP ox66, so I put a small JP to get my best performance while easily adjusting the motor. Spent some time on the water and it made a big difference to that Skeeter when done.

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    #14
    As I said, I know nothing about your hull. Your thinking does make sense.

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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by digthemup View Post
    Reckon GOD gave us freewill to do what we want, but it has been our greatest downfall from the get go doing things haphazardly without truly knowing the reason why or the need to do it in the first place.
    The Preacher said it best in "Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool, when he holds his peace, is counted wise; and he that shuts his lips is esteemed a man of understanding."
    digthemup, freewill was given with a caveat, Adam and Eve both ignored the one thing that they weren't supposed to do, hence we live in a world and country that kills hundreds of thousands of babies every year. They could have chosen to do "almost" anything, just one wrong choice and look where we are!

    This is not a slap at Ranger1, not even close. But I ain't modifying my boat, wasting time and valuable resources just because I can. If there is a gain in handling, power, or safety then I'll jump in, but adding a component that may have no effect or maybe a detrimental effect just because I can? Not my style.
    Stuck with a G3 Sportsman 1910 - Yamaha 150 - Helix 10 Mega Si - Helix 7 SI - Ultrex

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    #16
    The only way to describe my boat is semi V, with a caveat, it has a welded chine right down the center, then a couple more on each side of that one. There is no specific "pad" per say the way the boat is built, I'm guessing the vast majority of welded Aluminum boats are the same. From the bottom of the chine to the center line of the prop shaft is 7 inches, 7 3/4 from the bottom of the boat to the shaft center line. I can also say that a four bladed prop on my boat in it's current set-up will get it up on plane faster and smoother then the three bladed prop. Top end speed was down about 4.5-5 mph from the three bladed prop, steering pressure was up a bit, I'm sure the increased torque was the reason. The increased steering pressure wasn't bad, but it was noticeable, like immediately noticeable, not sure what would happen if I let go of the steering wheel, gonna have to experiment at low power and speed and work my way up to get comfortable again.

    At wide open, with trim all the way up, or almost all the way up, less then one needle width from full up, the boat is nearly all the way out of the water. Less then two feet of the boat appeared to be touching, the roostertail was not any higher than normal with a three bladed prop, but it did extend farther behind the boat then it does with a three blade. That is in smooth water. In rougher water, the boat ran as if the water was smooth, zero slap, zero splash, zero bounce, just top of wave to top of wave smoothness. Single best overall ride to date in any kind of water.

    Original prop was the stock SS three bladed Yamaha Reliance Series 13 3/4 21m, new four bladed Power Tech SS Propeller Custom Cupping PTZ4R19PCL200 23A023+. I've been told by the local Yamaha engine Tech that putting a four bladed prop on a 150 is not recommended, couldn't give me a why, just that its not recommended. The G3 dealer also told me that the boat manufacturer doesn't recommended it either, said something about the transom and the supports not being designed for the torque being applied to the transom.

    All of the runs and preliminary testing were completed with two adults, a full tank of fuel, full fishing gear installed in the front storage compartments. I don't have a specific weight of the boat, I'll get that in the near future.

    So, after all that dribble I've come to the conclusion that a HJP would probably not make a big difference in the ride of my style of boat. I'm pretty darn happy with the ride and the performance with the four bladed prop at this moment. I do have the ability to move the motor up another inch without drilling new holes. So, if y'all have any ideas or suggestions I'm willing to listen and learn.
    Stuck with a G3 Sportsman 1910 - Yamaha 150 - Helix 10 Mega Si - Helix 7 SI - Ultrex

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    #17
    Wow, 7+ inches. I would raise it up the one inch and see what happens. I doubt a JP would help you any other than making height adjustment easier.

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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by gehol View Post
    Wow, 7+ inches. I would raise it up the one inch and see what happens. I doubt a JP would help you any other than making height adjustment easier.
    Gehol is right on, but I would add that if the manufacturer does not recommend using a 4 blade do to the transom not being strong enough to handle it, I would listen to them since they are the ones that built it. Load bearing laws are a real bitch, which they will provide you with catastrophic lessons with possible deadly results.
    Moving the motor up should be a matter of just unbolting and moving it up to the next hole that is already in your motor's mounting plate. Be sure to support the motor correctly and be sure to prevent the bolt from turning when you are turning the nut so not to have to reseal. Torque even you are done to 55 Ft lb and recheck after a couple of outings.
    May very best to you.

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    #19
    digthemup, I had a trip planned to Michigan for next week till everyone lost their minds, had planned on stopping by the G3 factory. Gonna have to wait for a couple of weeks now.

    Did get to talk with and engineer for a few minutes, seemed like a nice guy, he was able to explain a few things about their construction and year model issues. When I get a chance to stop by and visit he said he would spend as much time with me as I wanted. I did ask about the four bladed prop issue and the transom, he actually laughed, said the transom was strong enough to hold two 100HP motors, said that someone was trying to get me excited over nothing. He did mention that the motor manufacturer wasn't a fan of them though, he also said that there wasn't a single engine manufacturer out there that liked them. Said we would discuss the differences and pressures related to 3-6 bladed props and why most engine companies have varying opinions.

    We also had a chance to discuss some quality control issues I am concerned with, much to my surprise he wanted to hear about them. However, we ran out of time, we'll get a chance to look at them directly when I get to visit the factory. We'll see how that all goes in a few weeks.
    Stuck with a G3 Sportsman 1910 - Yamaha 150 - Helix 10 Mega Si - Helix 7 SI - Ultrex

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by AH64ME View Post
    digthemup, I had a trip planned to Michigan for next week till everyone lost their minds, had planned on stopping by the G3 factory. Gonna have to wait for a couple of weeks now.

    Did get to talk with and engineer for a few minutes, seemed like a nice guy, he was able to explain a few things about their construction and year model issues. When I get a chance to stop by and visit he said he would spend as much time with me as I wanted. I did ask about the four bladed prop issue and the transom, he actually laughed, said the transom was strong enough to hold two 100HP motors, said that someone was trying to get me excited over nothing. He did mention that the motor manufacturer wasn't a fan of them though, he also said that there wasn't a single engine manufacturer out there that liked them. Said we would discuss the differences and pressures related to 3-6 bladed props and why most engine companies have varying opinions.

    We also had a chance to discuss some quality control issues I am concerned with, much to my surprise he wanted to hear about them. However, we ran out of time, we'll get a chance to look at them directly when I get to visit the factory. We'll see how that all goes in a few weeks.
    Surprised to hear that you had a fishing trip planned for next week to Michigan since Ontario is still colder than my ex-wife's heart. Yea, we are dealing with the same issue in NY, but not in my area yet, since no deaths have been reported other than down in NYC.
    I don't know of Merc having any objection to 4 blades, since they have made a few special 4 blades like Trophy plus, Fury 4, Bravo just for HP bass boats. I am sure that if their gear setups are not strong, manufacturers may worry or people not pitching down for correct RPMs. I run 2 different Trophy Plus and a Tempest Plus, but the low to midrange performance and handling of the 4 blade is by far better than the 3.
    However, my Tempest Plus was worked by Croxton for my set up, and has great performance with plenty top end speed for a big rig. I am sure with time you will get it worked out, just like the uncontrolled fears from this virus that has cost me plenty of monies so far.

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