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  1. #1
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    Change water into wine

    This is the corresponding Psalm for the wedding at Cana where Christ turned water into wine. The first of His recorded miracles. The main purpose of any miracle is to point to Christ's divinity. God is the author of creation and the laws of nature. When He sets aside these laws--man views it as a miracle--to teach of His power and love. Creation itself shouts of God's power. At walled Jericho the inhabitants feared the Israelites. The city had heard what God did forty years earlier at the parting of the Red Sea and now parting the nearby Jordan river. God's power is scary to sinners. We know that power also includes full redemption (God's love). Many seek to hide from punishment by denying God's power / authority. There is no punishment for those in Christ.

    Psalm 66:5ff

    5
    Come and see the works of God,
    Who is awesome in His deeds toward the sons of men.
    6He turned the sea into dry land;
    They passed through the river on foot;
    come, let us rejoice in Him!
    7He rules by His might forever;
    His eyes keep watch on the nations;
    Let not the rebellious exalt themselves.
    9Who keeps us in life
    And does not allow our feet to slip.
    10
    For You have tried us, O God;
    You have refined us as silver is refined.
    16Come and hear, all who fear God,
    And I will tell of what He has done for my soul.
    20Blessed be God,
    Who has not turned away my prayer
    Nor His loving kindness from me.

    v.5-6 God doesn't need our adulation, He is complete. The miracles are for man's benefit. We respond in rejoicing.

    v.6 "sea"--parted it and destroyed Pharaoh's army. "river"--God parted the Jordan River as Israel finally entered the Promised Land. The daily manna stopped. Israel was home--as per God's promise.

    v.9-10 "keeps", "refined"--our lives. Our spiritual lives?

    v. 16 & 20. God worked for each of our souls and showed His loving kindness by suffering our hell on the cross. "me, my" evangelism is personal and specific.
    Last edited by msethsmile; 01-28-2020 at 05:42 PM.

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    #2
    Why were the guards at Christ's tomb so fearful? They fainted dead away--defense mechanism. These were hardened Roman soldiers. Dereliction of duty was punishable by death. The soldiers witnessed the supernatural and knew they were sinful--accountable to God. Peter said, "Away from me Lord for I am a sinful man." (miracle of the catch of fish) Lk 5:8. He knew too. Peter later learned that God's love transcends our sinfulness, exhibited in Christ's death. Peter was restored, "Feed my sheep." Those in Christ will be restored--eternally.

    Why weren't the ladies fainting dead away at Christ tomb? They were more brave? No, they had faith. They trusted in God's promises to remove their sin as far as the East is from the West. (Psalm 103:12)
    Last edited by msethsmile; 01-29-2020 at 09:37 AM.

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    #3
    Could it be that the guards were fearful, since they were made to sleep, and when they awoke the tomb opened tomb had no body within it, hence, tremendous fear of imminent death.
    However, the grieving women were there to anoint the body with spices and other typical ointments, and even when the angel appeared to them and later the Lord to Mary Magdalen, none was perceived as potential or imminent threat of death?
    Does the question that Mary Magdalen asked, thinking the Lord was the gardner or custodian, seems to state any faith in His resurrection?
    Just my humble observations.

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    #4
    Matt 28:4 "There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men. The angel said to the women..."

    1. The text doesn't say anything about being made to sleep vs. fear (conjecture). The text does give cause/effect (angel appears/soldiers fainted).

    2. 'tremendous fear of imminent death'---from whom? Please clarify.
    Last edited by msethsmile; 01-29-2020 at 09:44 AM.

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    #5
    Why was the stone in front of the tomb rolled away? To let Christ out? No, mere rock cannot contain Christ (which He created BTW). The tomb was opened to let man in, witness that everything the OT prophets and Christ had previously said was all true. Vindicated at His resurrection. Acceptable to the Father as a proper sacrifice. His resurrection assures our resurrection.
    Last edited by msethsmile; 01-29-2020 at 09:19 AM.

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    #6
    Tremendous fear of imminent death from their Centurion or even Pilate, since their gave the order for the posting of the guards at the request of the Pharisees.
    I am in no way detracting from Christ's resurrection, but that certain things can be just circumstantial and not necessarily miraculous, such as every stupid thing that I do being the devil's fault.
    BTW, I concur with you that everything that happen at the tomb was for man's benefit just like at Lazarus tomb.

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    #7
    1. The text doesn't say anything about being made to sleep vs. fear (conjecture). The text does give cause/effect (angel appears/soldiers fainted), in the same sentence:
    "The guards were so afraid of him (the angel) that they shook and became like dead men." (my emphasis)

    2. same angel--different response soldiers vs. women
    3. most don't sleep thru violent earthquakes/supernatural manifestations)
    4. NLT renders "fell into a dead faint."
    5. modern usage, 'fainted dead away'
    6. Doesn't detract from Christ's resurrection? Your version directly counters Scripture and that same Scripture testifies to the resurrection.


    Which is a far, far greater threat: Being accountable to Rome for dereliction of duty OR Being accountable to God for sins with no excuses (not found in Christ)?

    Mary-- Context, context, context (remote). Mary had previously stated her faith in Christ. The angel was not a threat because they resided in Christ.

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    #8
    I strongly believe that this call for the same reply I give my wife just to bring a matter to conclusion when her opinion can only be "right".
    You are right honey, absolutely unequivocally right, and life goes on.

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    #9
    "The camel's nose under the tent..."

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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by digthemup View Post
    BTW, I concur with you that everything that happen at the tomb was for man's benefit just like at Lazarus tomb.

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    #11
    As I said before, the main purpose of any of Christ's miracles (or associated with Him) was to point to His divinity. This particular miracle / supernatural manifestation accompanies Christ's burial account* (not a story). Please explain to me how denying a clear miracle account gives glory to God and/or increases our faith.

    *eye witness account BTW--you can't get better (or more reliable) than that.

    "Camel's nose under the tent..." If we are capable of denying clear accounts in Scripture then what else are we capable of denying down the road? Ultimately, the Gospel message. Scripture is either reliable or it is not. Which one is it? Take a stand.

    Doubt my point? Take a look at the denominations that over the years have denied the authority of Scripture. Where are they now? Pick one. Some can barely be called Christian, they have lost the Gospel message. The true Gospel (Christ died for our sins) has been replaced with a counterfeit social gospel. The touchy-feely, feel good about yourself preaching.

    The hottest church in my neck of the woods is like this. Numbers growth upon numbers growth. I listened to one of their sermons on the web. 44 minutes long and not one mention of Christ dying for my sins--no mention of sin in the first place. Spiritually destructive.

    And so it is when we monkey with Scripture (man's natural tendency). Let Scripture speak for itself. (I didn't say it was easy. We all must battle the tendency to think we're smarter than God--to disregard what He has said)

    Did you ever notice that many times the OT prophets railed against Israel's/Judah's sin or unbelief--they used the term 'we'? We're in the same boat (assume its a bass boat).
    Last edited by msethsmile; 01-31-2020 at 09:56 AM.

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    #12
    That is exactly what I am saying in this "BTW, I concur with you that everything that happen at the tomb was for man's benefit just like at Lazarus tomb.", however, I will need to explain it in detail for you to understand I guess. Lazarus resurrection was done for all attending, especially the Pheresis, to see Jesus divinity first hand. If you read the entire account, you notice that Jesus waited until Lazarus was dead to go to him, further, he waited more than 3 days, since the Pheresis believed that the spirit lingered with the body for 3 days, so that was eliminated.
    When Jesus called Lazarus out of the tomb by name, He shows a glimpse of future things to come when He opens the seals and the trumpet sound for everyone to come forth, hence by calling Lazarus by name, he was the only one coming out not the entire graveyard. So, how much more is there for me to say, that Lazarus resurrection by Jesus shows that He is the Christ, His own resurrection, and all the ones that will follow after His resurrection. Do you need any further clarification that I am in no way dening Scripture nor Jesus being Christ. ( His divinity)

    BTW, I do not attend a mega church, but Christ keeps me at service in St Paul Lutheran in Hilton, NY, which in many ways I help built the sanctuary and contribute in ministry to this very day, even though I am not a Lutheran, but like Paul, just a bondservant of Jesus Christ. ( Yes, I do have a gold earing loop in my left ear as the Scripture says)

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    #13
    [QUOTE=digthemup;10819820]Could it be that the guards were fearful, since they were made to sleep, and when they awoke the tomb opened tomb had no body within it, hence, tremendous fear of imminent death.

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    #14
    Matt 28:4 "There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men." NLT, "fell into a dead faint"

    So, your quote and this passage are in total agreement?
    Last edited by msethsmile; 02-01-2020 at 09:08 AM.

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    #15
    [QUOTE The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men." NLT, "fell into a dead faint"

    So, your quote and this passage are in total agreement?[/QUOTE]

    I am talking about what could induce fear of imminent death in an individual, which I am sure that if the earth shook and an angel, who in many cases have been described as a bright white light, appeared before 2 soldiers in any era, would have your heart thumping out of your chest like a regiment of black pajamas VC come running and crashing at you in the bush as a pit viper slithers inches from your mud covered face on the ground.
    Do you think that that would induce fear of imminent death in some people to the point of temporary coma??
    Do you think that we have discussed this at nauseum? or do we need further useless discussion?
    Be well and be blessed.

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    #16
    Thread's intent: Show that Christ's miracles (and those associated with Him) point to His divinity. As such, Christ is powerful enough and pure enough to defeat sin, death, devil, hell. We go from being enemies of God to being a members of God's family.

    Epiphany--"show forth, manifest"
    Last edited by msethsmile; 02-03-2020 at 09:56 AM.

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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by msethsmile View Post
    Thread's intent: Show that Christ's miracles (and those associated with Him) point to His divinity. As such, Christ is powerful enough and pure enough to defeat sin, death, devil, hell. We go from being enemies of God to being a members of God's family.

    Epiphany--"show forth, manifest"
    Would you consider Lazarus resurrection by Jesus a miracle?
    Would you consider the widow's only son resurrection by Jesus a miracle?
    Would you consider Jesus resurrection a miracle?
    If yes, you are right and they all solidly support His divine powers. However, do remember what Jesus himself said to the Pheresis seeking a sign (miracle) from Him, and further He discusses how the devil will be making false miracle ( magic). (2 Thessalonians 2:9).
    *Jesus baptism by John the Baptizer strongly support His divinity, since GOD Himself stated it, and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in the appearance of a dove.
    *Jesus hanging on the cross and His blood on that cross to pay for my many sins, your sins, and the sins of the world for all times.
    *Jesus resurrection and the empty tomb assuring the resurrection and eternal life with Him to all who are save and believe in Him being the only begotten Son of GOD.

    I believe that the above solidify Jesus divinity; being our Intercessor; being our Savior Redeemer.