89 Champion 201 SC(R?) (Pic Heavy)

[Radeleur]

Ok, so a little update.

I decided to take a break from shining the ol girl up and dig into some of the other things. (Thanks Matt)

This is what I was told about the boat:

Originally: "1989 20.1 champion bass boat. 1988 200hp mercury. New carpet. Live well lights. Needs seats and batteries."

After initial contact and during discussions: "Boat is solid all around. Trolling motor needs to be installed and needs batteries. Motor is strong new water pump new lower unit new head gaskets. New steering cables. Hook 9 graph. Runs like a champ. Tags are current. Gel coat is kinda gone" I then asked about the trailer any issues. "No, solid trailer." I was told this after I purchased it, "The boat had no leaks, and no soft spots, and the transom is solid. At one time I put a 225 efi on at and it ran like a bullet lol it may not look great but it is a very solid boat" as well as: "The floor around the drain in front of where seats should be, at one time I put a board under the deck to make that a little more stable." Additionally I was told radio worked, flasher works, and was used and fished up through December, during the exchange.

So, feeling like I wasn't being lied to, I decided the price for some seats, batteries, and time to install the trolling motor and shine her up was acceptable; or more appropriately, was within my budget.

So, now the unexpected turn, or more appropriately, turns.

1. Radio is graveyard dead (not a big deal)
2. Flasher: Unknown as the wires were cut from the back of the gauge (again not really a big deal)
3. Cockpit floor made cracking sounds when my 50 pound 10 year old kid walked on it when I brought it home so I went to investigate.
4. Cockpit floor: Numerous cracks, no wood left at drain (just fiberglass and remember the "board under the deck to make that a little more stable...it was a scrap piece of 2x4 with staples riddling the vertical length of it and they had used 3 standard metal screws that were completely rusted), floor was pillowed (determined it was de-laminated in numerous spots)
5. Cockpit floor: So I dug further and discovered that the flotation foam is saturated. (Its been inside my garage for days under heat lamps)
6. Cockpit stringers: Port side is seeping water out the bottom, can move the fiberglass with minimum effort with one finger, for approximately 3 feet (as far as I have gotten so far) towards the bow starting at the main seat base, and when pressing on the flotation foam it collapes. Starboard side random hollow sounding spots and flotation foam when pressed makes water seep out and rise.
7. Cockpit carpet: was laid so fast that it was actually laid over used soft plastic baits and hooks
8. Battery compartment: Dual-Pro 2 channel so rotted it can not be attached and the lights only half of them function
9. Battery Compartment: Plumbing - Standard metal hose clamps used and all are so rusted will require cutting off
10. Battery Compartment: Bilge graveyard dead
11. Battery Compartment: Livewell pump doesn't work
12. Battery Compartment: Wall boards on stern (port and starboard) are cracked/broke/rotted out (discovered when looking for a place to mount a new charger)
13. Wiring: Total mess. Home electric twist caps used (and so rusted wires breaking completely off), unterminated or capped off hot wires exposed inside hull walls, electrical tape twist joins, wiring just cut out, broken switches, hidden switches up behind gauge panel, broken knobs for timers, random hot wires stuffed up behind gauge panel
14. Front Deck: Recessed tray was removed allowing it to de-laminate; Panels removed, and wires just cut, and shoved down in hull
15. Front Deck: Rod locker wall near front seat post mount broke
16. Front Deck: Unknown damage (can see a small 1x6 under the deck at the very front of the front deck that has been screwed in with 6 -7 standard metal screws that are rusting)
17: Front deck: Compartment lids either missing hinges or mounting screw holes are stripped out
18. Front Eye bolt: Support is broke. Bottom bolt of eye bolt nearly pulled through the inner hull support/mount and it appears to have arched (from electrical) as it is black all around the area with wires leading to lights installed in the front rubrail (front nav light wires just cut)
19. Hull: Keel worn all the way down to the fiberglass (not into it but I can see light inside the hull from a flashlight under it)
20: Hull: Scratches on bottom extending full length of hull (looks like it might have been sand-bared)
21: Trailer: Fender boards completely missing
22. Trailer: Bunks have been moved forward or back, Some spots have a 2nd layer of carpet while others do not, and all 4 need replaced
23. Trailer: ALL rollers are cracked nearly in half lengthwise
24. Trailer: Front Roller is broke and missing end bells
25: Trailer: Fender flimsy, broke, rusted, dented
26. Trailer: Underweight winch
27. Trailer: Jack under weight, flexes (bends out) when raising or just holding the tongue up
28. Trailer: No spare at all
29. Trailer: Tire tread seperating
30. Trailer: Brakes: Unknown, my buddy who has been pulling boats for over 40 years said he never even felt it pull back when attempting to stop or slow down even through major metropolitan rush hour traffic
31. Engine: Trim is extremely loud, slow (think 15 seconds and you still can't see that it has moved any) and has fluid around tilt rod (wasn't present when I looked at it)
32. All compartments are missing shocks and mounting hardware
33. Spashwell gasket (I don't know what to call it but the thing for holding all the wiring and cables from the motor) was rusted and rotted out and a separate hole drilled (not sealed) for the gas line
34. Battery compartment: I forgot to mention, that it was completely saturated and filled with leaves and other debris under the fuel tank
35. Battery compartment: Valves rusted and frozen
36. Engine: Forgot to mention, it is not a 1988 200HP Mercury. It is a 1986 which I discovered after preparing to go to the tag office


Anyway, so much for a solid boat. I didn't expect perfection or new....but "Solid" I did. I'm a disabled veteran and bought it to take my kids (one with autism) and other veterans with PTSD out fishing. It made an enormous impact in my life growing up fishing and then being introduced to bass fishing after moving down here to the south and I wanted to help my fellow brothers and sisters out too.

It's not that I am afraid of hard work. Hell, I grew up hand buffing oxidation out of old 60's VW's, trucks and cars. But after scouring the forums, seeing materials costs over $10k and those threads are many years old, I'm starting to doubt if she will ever fish, let alone float, again. Never even got to take her out. I have plenty of time, knowledge of wood and tools (not that I have all that I need), etc... But I am doing this on my own.

And before anyone says it, I already feel like an idiot after driving over 8 hours to get it.

[g352nv]

Ok, so a little update.

I decided to take a break from shining the ol girl up and dig into some of the other things. (Thanks Matt)

This is what I was told about the boat:

Originally: "1989 20.1 champion bass boat. 1988 200hp mercury. New carpet. Live well lights. Needs seats and batteries."

After initial contact and during discussions: "Boat is solid all around. Trolling motor needs to be installed and needs batteries. Motor is strong new water pump new lower unit new head gaskets. New steering cables. Hook 9 graph. Runs like a champ. Tags are current. Gel coat is kinda gone" I then asked about the trailer any issues. "No, solid trailer." I was told this after I purchased it, "The boat had no leaks, and no soft spots, and the transom is solid. At one time I put a 225 efi on at and it ran like a bullet lol it may not look great but it is a very solid boat" as well as: "The floor around the drain in front of where seats should be, at one time I put a board under the deck to make that a little more stable." Additionally I was told radio worked, flasher works, and was used and fished up through December, during the exchange.

So, feeling like I wasn't being lied to, I decided the price for some seats, batteries, and time to install the trolling motor and shine her up was acceptable; or more appropriately, was within my budget.

So, now the unexpected turn, or more appropriately, turns.

1. Radio is graveyard dead (not a big deal)
2. Flasher: Unknown as the wires were cut from the back of the gauge (again not really a big deal)
3. Cockpit floor made cracking sounds when my 50 pound 10 year old kid walked on it when I brought it home so I went to investigate.
4. Cockpit floor: Numerous cracks, no wood left at drain (just fiberglass and remember the "board under the deck to make that a little more stable...it was a scrap piece of 2x4 with staples riddling the vertical length of it and they had used 3 standard metal screws that were completely rusted), floor was pillowed (determined it was de-laminated in numerous spots)
5. Cockpit floor: So I dug further and discovered that the flotation foam is saturated. (Its been inside my garage for days under heat lamps)
6. Cockpit stringers: Port side is seeping water out the bottom, can move the fiberglass with minimum effort with one finger, for approximately 3 feet (as far as I have gotten so far) towards the bow starting at the main seat base, and when pressing on the flotation foam it collapes. Starboard side random hollow sounding spots and flotation foam when pressed makes water seep out and rise.
7. Cockpit carpet: was laid so fast that it was actually laid over used soft plastic baits and hooks
8. Battery compartment: Dual-Pro 2 channel so rotted it can not be attached and the lights only half of them function
9. Battery Compartment: Plumbing - Standard metal hose clamps used and all are so rusted will require cutting off
10. Battery Compartment: Bilge graveyard dead
11. Battery Compartment: Livewell pump doesn't work
12. Battery Compartment: Wall boards on stern (port and starboard) are cracked/broke/rotted out (discovered when looking for a place to mount a new charger)
13. Wiring: Total mess. Home electric twist caps used (and so rusted wires breaking completely off), unterminated or capped off hot wires exposed inside hull walls, electrical tape twist joins, wiring just cut out, broken switches, hidden switches up behind gauge panel, broken knobs for timers, random hot wires stuffed up behind gauge panel
14. Front Deck: Recessed tray was removed allowing it to de-laminate; Panels removed, and wires just cut, and shoved down in hull
15. Front Deck: Rod locker wall near front seat post mount broke
16. Front Deck: Unknown damage (can see a small 1x6 under the deck at the very front of the front deck that has been screwed in with 6 -7 standard metal screws that are rusting)
17: Front deck: Compartment lids either missing hinges or mounting screw holes are stripped out
18. Front Eye bolt: Support is broke. Bottom bolt of eye bolt nearly pulled through the inner hull support/mount and it appears to have arched (from electrical) as it is black all around the area with wires leading to lights installed in the front rubrail (front nav light wires just cut)
19. Hull: Keel worn all the way down to the fiberglass (not into it but I can see light inside the hull from a flashlight under it)
20: Hull: Scratches on bottom extending full length of hull (looks like it might have been sand-bared)
21: Trailer: Fender boards completely missing
22. Trailer: Bunks have been moved forward or back, Some spots have a 2nd layer of carpet while others do not, and all 4 need replaced
23. Trailer: ALL rollers are cracked nearly in half lengthwise
24. Trailer: Front Roller is broke and missing end bells
25: Trailer: Fender flimsy, broke, rusted, dented
26. Trailer: Underweight winch
27. Trailer: Jack under weight, flexes (bends out) when raising or just holding the tongue up
28. Trailer: No spare at all
29. Trailer: Tire tread seperating
30. Trailer: Brakes: Unknown, my buddy who has been pulling boats for over 40 years said he never even felt it pull back when attempting to stop or slow down even through major metropolitan rush hour traffic
31. Engine: Trim is extremely loud, slow (think 15 seconds and you still can't see that it has moved any) and has fluid around tilt rod (wasn't present when I looked at it)
32. All compartments are missing shocks and mounting hardware
33. Spashwell gasket (I don't know what to call it but the thing for holding all the wiring and cables from the motor) was rusted and rotted out and a separate hole drilled (not sealed) for the gas line
34. Battery compartment: I forgot to mention, that it was completely saturated and filled with leaves and other debris under the fuel tank
35. Battery compartment: Valves rusted and frozen
36. Engine: Forgot to mention, it is not a 1988 200HP Mercury. It is a 1986 which I discovered after preparing to go to the tag office


Anyway, so much for a solid boat. I didn't expect perfection or new....but "Solid" I did. I'm a disabled veteran and bought it to take my kids (one with autism) and other veterans with PTSD out fishing. It made an enormous impact in my life growing up fishing and then being introduced to bass fishing after moving down here to the south and I wanted to help my fellow brothers and sisters out too.

It's not that I am afraid of hard work. Hell, I grew up hand buffing oxidation out of old 60's VW's, trucks and cars. But after scouring the forums, seeing materials costs over $10k and those threads are many years old, I'm starting to doubt if she will ever fish, let alone float, again. Never even got to take her out. I have plenty of time, knowledge of wood and tools (not that I have all that I need), etc... But I am doing this on my own.

And before anyone says it, I already feel like an idiot after driving over 8 hours to get it.

Sorry to hear it. That sux.

[Radeleur]

So, discovered a few things.

On my Built 88/Model year 89 20 SCR...I found a few things

1. HIN is also on my front deck in front of the console readable from the bow of the boat
2. There is about 1 3/4 inch gap between top cap mold and floor
3. Front deck is secured to floor with fiberglass inside the rod lockers as well as secured to the hull
4. 2 of the fiberglass meld locations are located at the rear of both rod lockers up under the top cap
5. There is no wood on the inside of the rod lockers or inside the vertical fiberglass on the inside front floor area (except for the end of the lockers but it doesn't attached to the floor)

[Radeleur]

Been a wild ride last 6 days.

I was removing the floor and found waterlogged flotation foam.

So, after removing some of it I found standing water in the cavity despite being inside my garage for almost 2 weeks under heat lamps and the stringers bad. So, decision made....top cap to come off.

Today was removing the tons of rivets..what a PITA, and many didn't break off clean and were a nightmare to drill. I plan to reinforce both top cap and hull rims anyway. Broke free the seam on the top cap but haven't attempting lifting it yet.

Also, taking measurement for the battery compartment walls. Do, you cut them at the top separating from the top cap or cut them at the bottom separating from the hull??

[rojoguio]

Welcome to my world. Every deep dive I have done was finished and "Left the Building". It just seems like forever but as you move forward one day you realize there is nothing left to do, IT's Finished! Have patients cutting all the tabbing I have cut too much damaging existing good glass work and it just makes more work to restore. Good Luck.

[1bluemcm]

Been a wild ride last 6 days.

I was removing the floor and found waterlogged flotation foam.

So, after removing some of it I found standing water in the cavity despite being inside my garage for almost 2 weeks under heat lamps and the stringers bad. So, decision made....top cap to come off.

Today was removing the tons of rivets..what a PITA, and many didn't break off clean and were a nightmare to drill. I plan to reinforce both top cap and hull rims anyway. Broke free the seam on the top cap but haven't attempting lifting it yet.

Also, taking measurement for the battery compartment walls. Do, you cut them at the top separating from the top cap or cut them at the bottom separating from the hull??

I also went through a cap off rebuild on a Champ, a 191. We left all the vertical dividers/walls in the compartments, forward and aft, attached to the cap. You have to think forward about glassing this all back together - it is a lot easier to do the glass work and the bottom of these vertical dividers/compartments that at the top where it joins the cap, that would be a huge PITA.

If you end up ripping out stringers and such, before doing anything, take tons of photos from different angles and tons of measurements. Spacing left to right, heights, etc. With what you have described so far with standing water and flexible fiberglass that doesn't appear to have a wood core left, there going to be a lot of rotted or totally disintegrated wood. Be ready for it. There is no reason to paint a rosy picture, if it were me I'd be expecting the worst and would be happy with anything less than that.

But if you end up tearing out stringers, there will essentially be a fiberglass shell left. Don't grind it entirely away. Leave a small bit projecting up from the hull as a guide for where to place the new material. If you grind out everything down to the bare, smooth inner hull surface, you then have lay out everything from scratch. The original Champion engineering/design with regard to locations of the stringers relative to the hull is good, so I'd want to work from that.

You have a good model Champ there. And no better reasons to want to have the boat - to fish with your kids and help vets. This will be a big project but it's all doable. In the end, working with wood and fiberglass is not that difficult, and it's forgiving as opposed to working with metal. You have a little too much fiberglass, you grind it back. Need a little more, and some. Prep and planning are key with this structural work though. Once it's tore out, if you don't have good photos or measurements, it's going to be much harder.

[Radeleur]

I also went through a cap off rebuild on a Champ, a 191. We left all the vertical dividers/walls in the compartments, forward and aft, attached to the cap. You have to think forward about glassing this all back together - it is a lot easier to do the glass work and the bottom of these vertical dividers/compartments that at the top where it joins the cap, that would be a huge PITA.

If you end up ripping out stringers and such, before doing anything, take tons of photos from different angles and tons of measurements. Spacing left to right, heights, etc. With what you have described so far with standing water and flexible fiberglass that doesn't appear to have a wood core left, there going to be a lot of rotted or totally disintegrated wood. Be ready for it. There is no reason to paint a rosy picture, if it were me I'd be expecting the worst and would be happy with anything less than that.

But if you end up tearing out stringers, there will essentially be a fiberglass shell left. Don't grind it entirely away. Leave a small bit projecting up from the hull as a guide for where to place the new material. If you grind out everything down to the bare, smooth inner hull surface, you then have lay out everything from scratch. The original Champion engineering/design with regard to locations of the stringers relative to the hull is good, so I'd want to work from that.

You have a good model Champ there. And no better reasons to want to have the boat - to fish with your kids and help vets. This will be a big project but it's all doable. In the end, working with wood and fiberglass is not that difficult, and it's forgiving as opposed to working with metal. You have a little too much fiberglass, you grind it back. Need a little more, and some. Prep and planning are key with this structural work though. Once it's tore out, if you don't have good photos or measurements, it's going to be much harder.

Oh yeah I have more photos LOL

I am trying to save the skins (and marking them with location with permanent markers since they are empty in most cases), for example, the walls in the battery compartment(bilge area) around the flotation corners...well...3/4" 5 ply plywood.....gone but a few small pieces so I saved the skin for matching size (plus I am measuring too)

And discovered this morning going to have to do the transom I believe. Sounds solid (oddly), has a good hammer rebound (unlike the stringers) but noticed the inner bolts are crushed through on the inside. My school of though here is...well hell, gotta separate it it anyway, might as well do it now and seal properly as I discovered no silicon around the splash well strip and holes hidden that were unfilled.

[Radeleur]

Just some of the damage and progress....sloooow going

the gap around the edge is separating the top cap from the floor in prep for full top cap removal and subsequent stringer, transom, and floor replacement

[rojoguio]

Just my 2 cents. Support the hull very well before removing stringers and too much foam. Also study what is keeping the sides of your boat together. I work from front to back, removing less than 1/2 at a time so original glass is holding the sides together. If you cut too much at one time your hull will loose shape. When built your hull is in the mold and the mold is supporting the shape. I also use pieces of 3/4in plywood cut in various shapes to lay in the boats so the plywood edges are directly over the trailer runners so my weight is transferred to the trailer when inside working.

[Radeleur]

Just my 2 cents. Support the hull very well before removing stringers and too much foam. Also study what is keeping the sides of your boat together. I work from front to back, removing less than 1/2 at a time so original glass is holding the sides together. If you cut too much at one time your hull will loose shape. When built your hull is in the mold and the mold is supporting the shape. I also use pieces of 3/4in plywood cut in various shapes to lay in the boats so the plywood edges are directly over the trailer runners so my weight is transferred to the trailer when inside working.

The 2 main stringers are hollow now (not my doing). And since I am doing the work solo, I can't go too big/too fast. I planned to remove only one stringer at a time and use the skin as a mold.

Also, it is staying on the trailer until the stringer, flotation and floor are back in.

[rojoguio]

I get sick of this kind of work sometimes, it is slow work, I finally have my project ready to flip over to blueprint. If you get discouraged walk away for a few days, I have to do it all the time. I will say, it's very satisfying to fish in something you built.

[Radeleur]

Yeah I have my minutes, hours days where I walk out and think wth I am doing. This is way too much (especially since I have never done any of it). But then I just think, I haven't got $44k plus for a new 20 footer and remind myself I got this to help other veterans like myself unplug and not be part of the 22. That really helps.

[Radeleur]

OK, so for anyone wondering. A built in 1988, Model year 1989 20 SCR the transom has 10 - 3/16" wood layers with a sandwiched Coremat(r) between them after 5 layers resulting in a 1 1/2 inch thick transom inside the hull FG and the bilge FG.

I finally was able to remove the transom cap. By the way, that is a total PITA. Glad I did though. Discovered that several layers were delaminating from the others, most importantly the first layer is delaminating from the outer hull. Also found a broken screw or something metal in the top edge. the wood, was mostly, good otherwise minus a few spots where it was we/soft. The splash-well drain (the metal through hull piece) was rusted and broken and not sealed.

Here is a couple more pics.

First pic: the metal piece, crank in the layers and delaminating from the hull on starboard side.
Second pic: More of the delamination, cranks and wet wood on the port side.
Third pic: showing the 38 holes in the top of the console. (Stopped counting in the front deck after I hit 100 holes in it)
Fourth and Fifth pics: Just showing the bilge with no walls (they were shells only...the wood was already deteriorated)

[Radeleur]

Ugh double post

[MMosher]

Looking good. Just keep whittling away at it.

[rojoguio]

PITA, an understatement to say the least. Watching the performance videos of these hulls really throws gasoline on the flames to keep the project moving. At the end of the day your boat will give great satisfaction!

[DiawaKid]

Yes rope goes in the middle, and you lock the rope length by twisting this Clock wise, used for anchor

[Radeleur]

PITA, an understatement to say the least. Watching the performance videos of these hulls really throws gasoline on the flames to keep the project moving. At the end of the day your boat will give great satisfaction!

That's no joke LOL...

I can't help but wonder, what these skinny Champs could do with a 250 SHO or whatever...LOL But, honestly, I am considering just another 200 since that is what it is on (well was)

Right now my biggest struggle is figuring out how to get the top cap off. Not the bonding and stuff. But physically raising it. Trying to guestimate its weight so I don't overwhelm anything

[RPCfish]

I just lifted the cap on my 1985 184 champ. With mine most of the weight was in the back. I used a cherry picker in the back and a 25k ratchet strap tied to my crappy Costco cover frame in the front. 2 guys lifted the front up and one guy tightened the strap and then the cherry picker did its job with the back. I bet the whole cap weighs in around 250# to 300# total. To go back on I will make a hoist system attached to my garage ceiling as that will be more secure. I will say removing the cap seems harder than it is. It took me 30 minutes. I have some pics on my posting of the champion restoration you can see how I did it there. Hope this helps.

[Radeleur]

Thanks RPC, I saw that and saved them myself for reference.

My buddy helped me make a frame to fit inside my garage, but it flexed just5 holding the 375# motor...just worrisome...don't feel like having to reconstruct a top cap too LOL

I'll get a pic of my work space. Talk about jockying things around LOL