2014 COUGAR FTD (FURY 3 25p VS Fury 4)

[fishraptor]

Haven't posted in a LONG time, nice to be back. I have a 2014 Cougar FTD w/Merc Pro XS 250. LOVE THE BOAT. I have heard quite a few mention that their Cougars/Puma's were somewhat doggy out of the hole. When I'm loaded w/fuel and live wells also full this is when I have issues. I have spoken to two guys who have the exact same boat and both basically stated the exact same thing. Best to remove the Fury 3 25p and install a Fury 4 (can't remember what pitch they advised) stating "better hole shot", "more stable at speeds", "able to stay on plane at slower speed", "better in rough water", "slight loss in top end speed". My boat currently is in the 78MPH top speed range but don't find myself "using" that much speed often and would prefer a better hole at the expense of a couple three MPH sacrifice top end. I currently do not have a spare prop so i have to purchase another regardless but wish to make the right move.

Question:

Any Cougar/Puma owners have any experience on my issue and can they suggest best course of action ?
Are there any other props that I should be considering ?
Since I cannot remember the suggest pitch that those to 2 guys advised on the Fury 4 doesn't anyone have any personal experience/knowledge of what I might considering running ?
Best place to purchase suggested Prop ?

Thanks in advance

[dmax]

I have the same setup on a 18 Cougar, but I also have dual power poles with 4-31 series AGM's. Empty with a Fury 3 25p, the boat would run 78-80mph at 5900 RPM's with good all-around performance including hole shot. Add a person, hole shot gets a little slower with top end about the same, but taking a little longer to get there. Load it up with gas, water, and partner, forget getting on plane anytime soon. I even had extra PVS vents added, but ended up just plugging those as trying to balance 6 ports was just too time consuming.

Bought a new Fury 4 25p from Jasco Marine, hole shot pretty good regardless of load. Biggest benefit with a hyro jack plate, is that it'll still plane out with the plate almost all the way up. As for performance, top end was only about 72, so lost an easy 6-8mph over the Fury 3. RPM's were about the same at around 5900. Seemed to run out about the same regardless of PtP, but sweet spot is between 3.00" to 2.75". Mid-range cruise lift was nice, but to be expected with a 4 blade. All ports wide open.

Now running a Tempest Plus 3 blade 26p (with largest PVS plugs in). Hole shot seems to be better, with good all around performance running around the 3" PtP range. Hole shot loaded is ok, as the 3 blade slips a little better than the 4. Top end is mid-70's regardless of load at around 5900 RPM's with plenty of lift. I haven't tried messing with the plate while running to see if I can get more top end yet. Pending wind, will probably switch between the Fury 4 and the Tempest. I've let someone use the Fury 3 on another brand of boat to see how it runs there.

I've heard of several guys running the Fury 3 in 25p and 26p with great success, but with my setup, it just isn't good enough for me; just my 2 cents. I personally am not interested in running a B&B prop, as it would be my luck that it'd find the biggest stump on the lake...

[lpugh]

Prop those motors for 6100 and the give Ronnie Gilbert a call to get the Fury props right, There much to gained on hole shot as more lift at all speeds

[06 SB]

There are ways to make the hole-shot better without sacrificing speed. I had great performance from a 26P Fury 3 with extra vent holes added. I also had the same with a worked 25P Fury 3. Just get your 25P tuned for your boat it will be cheaper in the long run

[fishraptor]

Before I reply to your replys I forgot to mention that I have 1 group 31 battery (main) and 3 group 27's for trolling motor and a manual jack plate. Just so you know my set up.
Also, I have NOT yet tried to shift any heavy weight to rear of boat. Not sure how much I can gain but thought I would add that here.

Thanks Guys for some input but since This prop stuff is new to me you answers bought me to some new questions:
1 - Everyone is talking about adding vent holes and PVC vents. I'm assuming they are the same ? What does adding vents holes do to a prop and overall performance? (are their any "rules of thumb")
2 - I keep hearing Ronnie Gilbert in regards to prop posts. Who is the gentlemen and what does he do ?
3 - 06 SB states "get you Fury 3 25P tuned. Call me crazy but i'm having a hard time envisioning just how much "gain" one can get out of "tuning" a prop. Is tuning and blueprinting the same. Please elaborate...
4 - Dmax states "not interested in a B&B"..... Assume that is another brand of prop manufacturer. Who are they and would their props offer an advantage ? I had my Mako boar (Mirage prop) cleaned up and blueprinted by a co. called BBlades. Are they the same as the "B&B" you referred about? How would I get a hold of Ronnie Gilbert to talk to him ?

[FastCat04]

Good questions...let me see if I can help you some.
1) PVC vent/plugs etc....are the pre-made vent holes in the front of the prop hub. Opening these holes up lets the engine spin higher due to intentional prop 'slip' during holeshot/take off. You really want a ProXS 2-stroke to be 'slipping' to 3400-3800rpm while coming up on plane. Remove plugs to raise rpms/add plugs to reduce. Too many plugs or not enough rpm makes it sluggish during holeshot. I put 3 plugs in my 25p Fury 3 once...wouldn't get on plane and wouldn't load on trailer. Removed plugs...and things were immediately better.
2) Ronnie Gilbert is a prop guru/tuner in Louisiana. He's very good, very helpful and has a great deal of BassCat experience. There are others that are really good too. (Mark Croxton etc...) but call and talk to Ronnie. Well worth your time. He can help 'tweak' your prop to fix where your set-up struggles. And yes...it's possible to get holeshot/acceleration and top-end improvements at the same time.
3) B&B is usually balanced & blueprinted to original specs that are rarely there due to manufacturing tolerances. Tuning 'can' be different from this when your prop guy makes specific changes to your prop to offset your set-up issues (see #3)
4) Ronnie Gilbert's # is 337 380-1437

[06 SB]

The tuning I am referring to is tweaking a prop to get the most out of your set up. For example, you might need some cup added to the blades to gain some bow lift because you have a nose heavy boat. A B&B is balancing and blueprinting the prop. It sets it perfectly for smoothness and increases the efficiency of the prop. Both make your set up better. The 26P Fury had a set of PVS holes AND extra holes drilled to increase venting.

[Louie]

Ive had my new to my 17 puma 250 pro xs, Since Nov last year. It has a manual side master. duel poles. 3-27's one 31 agm. 112 fortrex. duel 9" graphs. I keep about 20 rods in the boat, and tackle in the middle compartment all the time. Not a ton in the rear, spare prop, bumpers. I seldom run the boat full fuel. Normal tournament load for me is about 3/4 tank on one side, 1/4 in the other as a reserve. I went down the same road. I think Im right at 3" p2p. The stock 25 fury ran good but hole shot was poor with co angler and livewell full, summer or winter. Sent it to Ronnie and had a large improvement. Shaved probably 2- seconds off the hole shot loaded, mid range gains, and ran pretty smoothly up to 77 @ 5900. I didnt press it past that due to driving skill and room to run around here. I sold both of my 25's/3s. And got a pair of 25/4's hole shot stock on this prop is probably another 2-3 seconds faster than my worked 3 blade. I gained alot of stern lift and handling, also some fuel economy at crusing speeds 48-52. Top speeds I have seen loaded in an event were a hair over 73, without a co angler I was able to hit 74.6 around 5800 rpm or so. It probably has a bit more with the right driver. I think I need to lower the jack plate from 3" down to 3.25-3.5" per reading on line and talking to some people. Over all I just like the 4 blade all around better. I know a few guys really like the bravo 1 xs as well. The furys have been know to sling blades, and I think running them up above 2.75" with the hydraulic plates might cause them to run sub surface. Havent seen many sling blades on the bravo, but I also dont see nearly as many people run that prop. Heres a link to Phil's review on a 26p/4.... I wouldnt mind selling one of my 25's to get a 26/4 for the winter.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/bass...rk-t35637.html

[Louie]

Ill also add this conversation I had with Clint on here after reaching out to him about his bravo on a older post. Here is our discussion. Saw your comments on a post about your sabre and making comment you had a puma. I have a 17 puma ftd. 112 fortrex. 4 batteries. 250 pro xs. slide master manual plate. Usually run a co/ or half fuel in both tanks. power pole blades. Boat came with a 25/3 even had it worked. Still did not like hole shot or lift. Ran 77@5700-5800. Probably had more. I have had the boat over a full year now came from a caracal. I had fallen in love with the 4 blade fury on it. So I sold my 3 blades for some 25/4 blade furys. I have run them up to 72 easily. Lately have tried to max out to see what I could hit I have seen 74.8 @ 5700-5850 or so. The chine walk is kinda bad in those ranges. My prop to pad is at 3" I have been told up and go down... Seems like you have tested it alot and found down is better. Im thinking I might need to be around 3.5". Any advise or things you have learned would be greatly appericated. - Matt
I’ve never tried a Fury 4, so I can’t even speculate. My Puma was a 2009, and I didn’t have PPs on it. I’ve definitely tinkered with motor height until I’ve turned blue/red though. The highest I could go with the Fury on the Puma was 1/8” up on the Slidemaster. Any higher, the bow dig was terrible until I trimmed up on pad. I bought the Bravo for rough water purposes. The Fury didn’t have the handling for Rayburn/Toledo, and I would get beat up and passed on long take off runs in tournaments. The Bravo fixed everything. I ran a 27 Bravo. Everyone says go up on the plate, but the higher I went the rough water ride disappeared. Same deal...bow would angle down, and I’d have to trim too high to get speed. I tinkered with height until I could see the boat riding level at WOT without trimming up. On that boat, it was the same height I ran the Fury. 3 3/8 PTP or a smidge above flush on the plate. I had very little chine walk at WOT, and I would blow by boats in that average 1-1.5’ choppy stuff. Top speed loaded with 2 people or solo, the 27 Bravo was 1 mph slower than a 25 Fury, but it was faster in the choppy stuff. The boat stayed glued to the water, and it was night and day better in turns. The Bravo wasn’t the speed prop, but the large diameter was a big help in handling. The boat didn’t bounce around in chop much at all. It ran flat, stern tucked slightly slow, with a slight bow rise with just 2 taps up on the trim. I could run 70 mph easy in those average choppy conditions.

I bought the Sabre because it fits in my garage. It’s a challenge when the waves get 2’ or bigger for sure. The Sabre is worse on the nose dig, and I suppose it has to do with a shorter boat. I have to run 3 5/8- 3 3/4 PTP...with any prop. This includes the Bravo. It just gets way too much nose dig with any prop running higher on the plate. I actually intentionally weight the front down to help with the choppy ride on this boat. The difference dropping the motor is night and day on this 18 footer.. For some reason, a 25 Tempest has the softest ride of any prop I’ve tried, so I run it on Rayburn and Toledo. It is crazy how fast the boat will run in those average choppy condition. The 26 Bravo I have is ridiculous on hole shot and midrange on the Sabre. It is a bit stiff running that chop on the smaller boat, but it’s definitely better than a Fury ran at 3 3/4 PTP. The Fury will beat me to pieces if I run it any higher, and the nose digs at a 30 deg angle down without trim. The nose is all over the place running choppy water. The key to both boats was to get the engine height so that the boat ran level at WOT without trimming up. The higher I go, the worse the nose dig. Higher loses the soft ride in choppy water. The Sabre performs exactly like the Puma, but in a 18’ version. With the Bravo, I can go
down to 3 3/4, and it rides the average chop even better. Aired out, it loses .3 mph on top end this low. It runs nice and level without trim at 47-48 mph. At 3 3/4, the Bravo will “crab” occasionally in the rear aired out in calm conditions, but it’s easy to drive through it. I raise the plate 1/16, and the rear “crabbing” disappears.

Imo, 3” PTP is too high. Set yours at 3.5, then go up or down 1/8”. See how you like it. To me, the Puma and Sabre are much easier to drive at WOT throttle near 3.5. The choppy ride is/was night & day better.

I’m headed to Sam Rayburn today. My cell is -------. I’ll be happy to call /text you. My Puma ran 78-79 solo in the Summer with a Fury. It was around 76-77 with the Bravo. I rarely saw calm conditions to get those speeds though.

Clint

[STLBassBuster]

Another prop to consider is a tempest plus. I had a 04 Cougar, 225 optimax, and it had good hole shot with a typical tournament load.

[fishraptor]

Thanks everyone for the valuable info. For a "newbie" to props and such it is a lot to take in, lots to learn. I will call Ronnie and see what my best course of action will be.

A couple of other things I forgot to mention:

A full throttle from a takeoff w/motor trimmed all the way down, generally on a "lighter loaded boat" .... just as I am coming on plane I get about 1.5 to 2 seconds of blade spin/cavitation. I don't hear motor screaming but more of a serious slippage. I know in race boats a good driver throttles back to keep from blowing motor but I would guess they are already at a much higher RPM near redline so it would be more crucial in their instance. Since the slippage is short and motor doesn't appear to be over reaving I generally don't take my foot out of it. I have also read that you can spin a prop on the hub and tear the rubber sleeve. Question:

Does the fact that my boat does this mean anything ? Do many boats do this or does this tell us that something is not "adjusted" correctly ?

Louie above stated he heard Fury's "slinging" blades but not Bravo's as much. What exactly happens when a prop slings a blade ? Up at a lake I frequently fish a gent said just the opposite, He stated he
heard of Bravo's slinging but not Furys. What exactly caused a prop to sling a blade ? Misuse or "shit just happens"....

I see many posts are talking about hydraulic jackplate settings (ie. 2.75 - 3" ...). I have a manual jackplate with no number designations on it (I believe) so not sure how I incorporate that into current issue
of improving holeshot, slight cavitation coming on plane, and some chimewalk getting to top end. I would imagine that Ronnie would be asking me jackplate settings questions but since mine is a manual
not sure how we work with that.

Thanks for the input....

[Louie]

Fish raptor. The rpm increase when the bow gos down is the prop slipping some/ aka blow out. As long as its in the time frame your saying just a second or so its pretty typical. My 3 blade fury did this also at wot hole shots or more aggressive hole shots. I never take off hard when fishing alone.. Ill fan the throttle at break over. Ronnie is great to talk to he can advise more on that condition and I know some put plugs in or take plugs out to help that condition. ( I have zero blow out on the 4 blade but its also got 8 pvs holes all open) If you have any plugs in yours I would take them all out and see what it does.

As for the fury 4, I think they had a big batch at the release of that prop and alot of them just cracked/ tossed blades. Search it on the face book "bass cat owners group" you will see alot of pictures of it. As for what causes it other than a possible casting flaw? Spinning them up high, running them sub surface, jumping out of the water and re entering have all been mentioned to me as possible causes. Although I'm not totally sure what really causes it.

Seat time for the chine walk, its taken me a good 10 months in every new bass cat I have go to get used to driving it above 70 and Id say at 13 months with this puma Im still fine tuning it above 73. With my old 3 blade I could get to 77 but not hold it there long. You can read more on measuring prop to pad. My jack plate halfs are more or less flush. Which puts mine around 3"