Need some ducks bad

[C Bash]

Everybody is singing the same song... no ducks. Hunters are like fisherman they don’t always say when they are on em so here’s my thing. I’ve got a young dog that’s doing great when he gets a chance but truthfully the ducks in southern Illinois the last two years has been not worth hunting. I’ve been going just for the dog and that’s what’s brought me here. I can trade deer hunting trips on my farm, am willing to go in on a good duck lease, or if anybody has a lease I’d be interested. This is probably my last dog and I really wanna get him into some birds. Pm me if you know of a way to hook me up. Thanks!

[Roddy]

If we had ducks I could get you a trade, but crappy hunting in west TN this year also.

[Jason Hale]

If we had ducks I could get you a trade, but crappy hunting in west TN this year also.

+1

[C Bash]

I’ve been around long enough to see the end of the quail, the end of the geese, the end of rabbits, and now it looks like I’m seeing the end of ducks. All for different reasons. I appreciate you guys for your reply’s and I know there’s a lot of us affected. It has been a depressing last two seasons.

[Bearetta]

Agreed. Ducks are changing habits, toughing it out up north till season is off, then no pressure to leave and good groceries not snow covered.
In my few drives to Denver over the years the ducks and snow geese numbers I have seeen on the southern part of the Kansas/Colorado border area have grown to be massive. No one out there to hunt them. No outfitters outfitting. Lots of groceries. No refuges counting them. They are off the grid.

I miss the quail that my Dad chased hard all over Kansas in the 60’s and 70’s. One season I remember especially when I was 10 my Dad hunted most every day he could. On the last day he went with his hunting buddy to their favorite ranch by Medicine Lodge and they counted the number of days they had hunted that ranch together and separately which were quite a few. Doubts were cast about our chances for a good hunt now that the two hunters had fessed up about their visits to the ranch without telling the other. 4 dogs hunted in twos moved 26 coveys that day. Wow!

Now you can kill 8 Canadas and 50 snows. But who has actually done it? They are smart birds and adapt. 50,000 plus winter inside city limits of Wichita each year.

My rabbit hunting friend says they had plenty of rabbits in Oklahoma until deer came in and spread ticks and disease.

But nature is cyclical. We will get some big winters yet that will push migratory birds, kill the weak animals and bugs, stymie the growth and spread of some diseases for a while and will send Mother Nature in another direction. We are just along for the ride and will need to enjoy it.

I am making plans to hunt North Dakota waterfowl next season starting in late September and October. If they won’t come to me, then I am going to them!

[RFeyoMN]

The early season in ND next year will be stupid with ducks! They went into winter extremely wet, and have accumulated a lot of snow...and it's not over. There will likely be an abundance of fallowed ground...and an abundance of early ducks!

[hatcreek]

When it comes to wildlife, it's pretty simple, really... It's all about habitat. As they say, "Build it and they will come."

Those of us who've trod this big ol' marble for more than a handful of decades have seen the changes that've taken place in that regard... The decline of quail populations (and I'll add pheasants since I used to love to chase them, too), as mentioned above, provides a perfect lesson...

Now; I hear all the time about how fire ants, birds of prey, etc. have decimated our game birds. Have they had an effect? Probably... just as have higher tier predators like bobcats, coyotes, foxes and raccoons, because folks have, for all intents and purposes, stopped trapping. Still and all, each critter I've mentioned was around long before our upland bird numbers began plummeting.

So what's the big difference from then to now?

I always tell folks to think about what the landscape looked like in those dozen coveys per day times versus what it looks like now.

Then... Smaller farms, old house/outbuilding sites, scattered woodlots, old/fallow fields, brushy/woody fencerows, cattail slough bottoms & weedy drainages, just tons of 'edge' habitat... Remember?

Now... Huge farms; devoid of the above, scoured of any "unnecessary" vegetation; terraced, tiled & drained just as pretty as you please... Basically zero 'edge' and unable to support much wildlife of any kind, let alone one as specialized in its needs/habitat requirements as the Bobwhite quail.

Is it any wonder they're disappearing/gone?

As for waterfowl movement patterns (or the lack, thereof), there are some additional/differing factors in play... the bulk of which (just as with upland species), are still related to agriculture practices...

I've lived and worked in the Mississippi Delta, a historically very important waterfowl wintering region, since 1993. Each of my 26+ years here have been dedicated to the field of wildlife/wetland management in some capacity... The changes I've seen in just that relatively short amount of time have been pretty remarkable...

For starters, I think we can all agree that there's a lot more waterfowl management being done 'up north' (aka, Midwest) than there used to be... The whole 'short-stopping' thing... and I won't get into it, here. I figure that any management (even 'up north') is better than no management and these days, it would seem that a whole lot of ducks agree with that premise. It basically boils down to this... They're simply not going to go any further south than is needed to find adequate food and open water.

The chicken (or duck, in this case) and the egg:

Inadequate quantity/quality of nesting habitat = poor production/recruitment to send birds south in the fall; just the same as inadequate quantity/quality of wintering habitat = fewer and less healthy birds returning north to nest in the spring...

BOTH are equally important in the annual cycle.

Recent condition trends, as RFeyoMN noted above, have been favorable in the northern plains/prairie pothole 'duck factory' region and that's great news in addressing half the equation. I'll relate a few of the changes I've seen in this area over time that have affected the other side of that coin...

As I said, most of these changes are related to agricultural practices; and while I reside in Mississippi, you can extrapolate all of this to include the Delta portions of Arkansas and Louisiana, as well. Examples include:

An untold number of Delta acres have been converted from moderate ridge/swale topography to zero-grade (think pool table flat)… This has eliminated a pile of areas which used to hold water throughout the wet (winter) months. There's also a much higher reliance on chemical vegetation control these days versus using standing water atop winter fields where possible to accomplish the same thing in years past. Barnyardgrass ('wild millet'), while a weed to rice farmers, is ice cream to a Mallard.

The use of early maturing seed varieties has led to crops which are grown and harvested before a duck (unless he's a Blue-wing) ever even thinks of heading south. Those early crops are also harvested by machinery which is many times more efficient than what was available just a couple decades ago. Add to this, all the fall plowing that's now used (instead of leaving ground fallow and plowing before planting) and any waste grain for wintering birds becomes pretty much nonexistent.

I'm going to add one more thing that I truly believe is affecting the number of birds that winter here in the Delta... Reforestation.

Arkansas, Louisiana and Mississippi comprise the top 3 states in the nation for acres (~700,000 ac. between the 3) taken out of ag production and re-established in bottomland hardwood species through the Wetlands Reserve Program (now WRE). Long-term; it will create a tremendous amount of absolutely amazing duck habitat... If you've been blessed to hunt flooded, mature hardwood timber, you know what I'm talking about. Short-term, however; what was once an abundance of weedy, wet, food-rich, ideal winter paradise for a duck (aka, marginal farm ground) has been converted to a huge thicket of dense (304 trees/ac.), nearly impenetrable, not-yet mast bearing woods... Awesome for deer, bear, etc., but not so much for ducks.

All of this is not to say that the Delta isn't an amazing place for waterfowl... It absolutely is. It's just that overall it's not, at present, what I've seen in the past.

If you've ever seen the very first edition of Mossy Oak's Whistling Wings series, there's a part at the end where there's footage of thousands upon thousands of ducks falling into an area at sunset...

That private land... several thousand acres of undulating, mostly-flooded soybean field interspersed with cypress brakes, sloughs and old oxbows... bordered the MDWF&P Wildlife Management Area that I oversaw when I first came to Mississippi. I spent many winter evenings standing on the gravel road that separated the two (it was also a popular place for folks trying to shoot a deer from the road), just watching all those birds. I'd never seen an area like it before, and have seen only one, since... Truly amazing.

The ducks don't come there any longer, though I hope they'll return one day... The entire place was enrolled in the WRP program ~10 years ago and has become a young forest.


Well, crap... I didn't intend to write a book.

Shit happens.

[TomzRanger]

I agree!

[C Bash]

�� sometimes books are worth reading. This was one of those times. Thanks for sharing!

[Dennis1]

Agreed. Ducks are changing habits, toughing it out up north till season is off, then no pressure to leave and good groceries not snow covered. In my few drives to Denver over the years the ducks and snow geese numbers I have seeen on the southern part of the Kansas/Colorado border area have grown to be massive. No one out there to hunt them. No outfitters outfitting. Lots of groceries. No refuges counting them. They are off the grid. I miss the quail that my Dad chased hard all over Kansas in the 60’s and 70’s. One season I remember especially when I was 10 my Dad hunted most every day he could. On the last day he went with his hunting buddy to their favorite ranch by Medicine Lodge and they counted the number of days they had hunted that ranch together and separately which were quite a few. Doubts were cast about our chances for a good hunt now that the two hunters had fessed up about their visits to the ranch without telling the other. 4 dogs hunted in twos moved 26 coveys that day. Wow!Now you can kill 8 Canadas and 50 snows. But who has actually done it? They are smart birds and adapt. 50,000 plus winter inside city limits of Wichita each year. My rabbit hunting friend says they had plenty of rabbits in Oklahoma until deer came in and spread ticks and disease. But nature is cyclical. We will get some big winters yet that will push migratory birds, kill the weak animals and bugs, stymie the growth and spread of some diseases for a while and will send Mother Nature in another direction. We are just along for the ride and will need to enjoy it.I am making plans to hunt North Dakota waterfowl next season starting in late September and October. If they won’t come to me, then I am going to them!

Great post and I agree with the cyclical for sure. We need all those storms they are getting now up North in Nov not Jan for the duck hunting.

[drake322]

Hatcreek, not a lot of ppl realize how many CRP, WRP, etc programs have taken 1000s of acres out of waterfowl used land. See, I said USED. Not potentially used. I saw it here back in my paper mill days buying timber in late 90s. Guy who had 100s of acres of bottomland he plowed or rented out to farming got such a great subsidy to plant hardwoods and leave it alone. Most of these farmers/guys did not care if they took out row crop or hay production. Just as long as the checks kept rolling in, they were good. Sure, there were WHiP programs but not many people followed through with the plan the NCRS made for them. Good example. Had a guy I had permission to cross to gain access to my deer lease. 480 acres he had that was totally cut, kg bladed, burnt and set to pasture in late 70s. Guy raised cows until he died mid 90s, family sold farm to new owner. He cattle farms for a couple years (older guy early 60s) and got hurt from tractor accident. Sold hay rights for a few years until he replanted the swampy areas, creek bottoms in hardwood trees and uplands in pines all at 100% cost share. Low areas in winter had no cows on them for ducks to feed on their cow shit and water cover grasses. Ducks were gone in a couple years.

I firmly believe we need to change the starting date of regular waterfowl season here in SE. Push it back a month into December. There have been so many ducks here in my area in February/March time frames in the last several years that it is depressing. I live right on a river and see if we have new bigger groups of birds here or not. Well sir, they are not here until the months I just mentioned. I know I will hear it from some "biologist" claiming there is no way in hell we can move the waterfowl season in the SE because of ABC and Feds set the limits. Well, maybe it was time we look at doing things unconventional and out of the norm. You cannot tell me that when I see a group of 2-300 redheads on my river at first of March, they are going back North. No, they just got here.
Just my $0.02.

[RFeyoMN]

We can't shoot ducks later than January 31 for a regular sesson. It's in the MBTA...and likely isn't going to change.

And no matter where you hunt in the southern half of the country...you always see more ducks when the hunting stops. Always! Just learn quickly, to avoid hunters and disturbance...it's their #1 instinct.

[csurp]

I wonder if all the swells gunning mass quantities for TV in Mexico and South is having an impact?

[hatcreek]

We can't shoot ducks later than January 31 for a regular sesson. It's in the MBTA...and likely isn't going to change.

And no matter where you hunt in the southern half of the country...you always see more ducks when the hunting stops. Always! Just learn quickly, to avoid hunters and disturbance...it's their #1 instinct.

I ALWAYS advise the folks I work with, that if they have adequate acreage, to establish a 'sanctuary' area that is never disturbed... not even by walking/riding in just to 'look at the ducks'. Through good record keeping, it's been a proven tactic to attract, hold and yes - kill - more birds on the remainder of a property. Couple more things... Rotate shooting days/areas and ZERO afternoon hunting; at least until the last few days of season.

And regarding the Federal season framework (60 days max)... Yes; not likely to change. For better or worse, it's just something we have to deal with in the South.

One of the main arguments against extending the season is that pair bonding is well underway by late Jan/early Feb, and we can't be screwing with that (pun intended ).

[RFeyoMN]

Walking through duck property is a sure way to F it up...second only to shooting them out. Wild ducks really, really don't like humans!

We may someday get longer seasons...but that's more likely than the Feds extending the cutoff date. The season frameworks are mostly useless now as it stands, with more states opting for zones/splits options. Duck season was open here in MN for 72 or 73 days this year...Misissippi Flyway, 6/60.

[drake322]

We were given a few extra days at the end of January (31st instead of last Sunday) and that is nice, if we have birds. I had a long discussion last night with my 20yo that has been to Arkansas hunting, North Dakota hunting and MS. He explained to me about the brooding pair issue and I get it. He is VERY knowledgeable about ducks. Way more at his age than I was. But, here in my area, IMO, we do not get a measurable percentage to ducks from way up north. We used to 20+ years ago. That said, we argued that ducks we see here in our area do not hatch anything until April/May time frame and some even hatch twice but those are not migrators, just locals. So, the pairing up does not happen until late March so to speak. This is why I thing the season needs to be moved back three weeks.

One other thing, there is evidence that the goose pop is highly responsible for the high levels of ecoli in waterways around here in warmer months. Coosa Riverkeepers has mentioned it. They are WAY over populated, like cormorants, and should have early season harvest numbers doubled. Too many resident geese. Funny though. You hardly ever saw a Canada Goose when I was growing up. Now, their numbers are stupid.

[RFeyoMN]

So, if you are hunting "local" ducks(your opinion), what makes you think 3 extra weeks of hunting pressure will make them easier to kill? If you can't kill a duck today...assuming the season stayed open...why would you be able to kill that duck in 3 weeks? 4 weeks? I don't really understand your logic.

Mallard pair bonding begins about the second week of November, every year. These are hard to kill adult ducks, the most likely to survive the season, and most likely to have a successful brood. The later the season goes, the more ducks are pair bonded, the less ducks you will have a chance to kill. And, the more likely disturbance will have a negative effect on the upcoming spring breeding.

[hatcreek]

drake... Yep, Canadas are like coyotes; very adaptable and human-tolerant... Golf courses, parks, marinas, etc. all make great Canada goose habitat.

As far as light geese species... Many places have special conservation order regs which substantially liberalize hunting dates and methods allowed (electronic calls, unplugged guns, no bag limit, extended shooting hours, etc.).

[drake322]

So, if you are hunting "local" ducks(your opinion), what makes you think 3 extra weeks of hunting pressure will make them easier to kill? If you can't kill a duck today...assuming the season stayed open...why would you be able to kill that duck in 3 weeks? 4 weeks? I don't really understand your logic.

Mallard pair bonding begins about the second week of November, every year. These are hard to kill adult ducks, the most likely to survive the season, and most likely to have a successful brood. The later the season goes, the more ducks are pair bonded, the less ducks you will have a chance to kill. And, the more likely disturbance will have a negative effect on the upcoming spring breeding.

Read a little closer. I said that over the last 20 years that the migratory ducks have not started showing up until late January/February. A lot of the birds we kill are not Canada boarder ducks nor are they "locals". There used to be a better mix than they are now. Like I said, if I see a group of 2-300 redheads or 50 pintails last of February, they just got here and not going back to nest, for the most part. At least in my area of NE Alabama. Where you live, you have no choice other than have migrators. That is why your season starts September/October for regular seasons. As far as the duck being easier to kill by extending the season, it would not. It MIGHT give us the opportunity at new ducks in the area, which IMO would increase our chances.

For instance. Good friend has a farm with two ponds they drain/plant/flood yearly close to me. Many times in the last 6-8 years, ducks were sporadic or sparse at all during the regular season. FF to youth weekend which is second weekend in February. Ducks everywhere and stayed around (most did) into March. My Son was a beneficiary of one of these weekend hunts on his last youth weekend before he turned 16. Just my opinion based off years of observation in my neck of the water.

[RFeyoMN]

Actually...you claimed you don't get the duck numbers you did "20+" years ago. That's nothing new...nobody does. There's less ducks.

And...your song is the same old song sang by every other complaining waterfowler from every other wintering state...."the ducks don't show up 'til after the season". You're entitled to believe what you believe, and i'm not trying to prove you wrong...but every duck in this country is no longer migrating in a southward/wintering trend on January 31st. Period. They're already heading back.