good pointOriginally Posted by blackboat
I'm just curious Don. Why is it one year or 100 hours. If someone puts less than 50 hours on their motor annually, it seems premature to change them every year. They don't degrade just because they're installed, do they?
Honora Primum Vel Nullum Omnin Honorem
In a marine-use environment, there are other factors (such as corrosion, for instance) to consider. Atmospheric moisture combined with condensation that forms in and on metal surfaces as they heat and cool can, in and of itself, contribute to deterioration of surfaces.
This is normally not a problem in your Automobile, that is run regularly and much higher operating temps.
Dual Mercury Master Technician- for Mercury Outboards, Mercruiser and Mercury Racing at European Marine in Greenville, SC.
Still consider myself a "Marine Apprentice" after 47 years (learn something new every day).
Mercury Parts, Mercury Outboards, Smartcraft & Accessories, Injector Service, TDR Reeds- BBC Sponsor
This is a good read, I have thought about buying plugs from the internet that are much cheaper than the Master Tech sells merc purchased plugs but the tech takes care of me when I need him to get me back on the water so I let him replace all the parts on my 300xs. I think this is the correct way to do it. It does cost more when having the annual maintenance performed but again I feel it's worth it in the long run. It will be a sad day when he retires.
Good explanation, thanks.
Honora Primum Vel Nullum Omnin Honorem
You do realize that Rock Auto buys from anyone, even those that are working out of their parents basements, especially if they are doing direct ship from "suppliers".
BTW, have you ever talked with anyone at Rock Auto directly, and chat box is not direct, since a computer can easily reply back to you.
Go on NGK's website and see the list of people to buy from. NAPA, Autozone, O'Reilly's etc.
Yes i did called Rockauto and left a message on answering machine , they called back quickly and were rather upset that i said they sold me counterfeit or EAC plugs , he said they do not talk about products over the phone and to go to there website to report my problem under Order Status & Returns . the only problem is my order was 179 days old witch exceeds there 60 day warranty . The page kicks me out because of that . I have tried and look for other ways to contact them with no results .
I was checking the NGK website the other night. We have an O'Reilly's a few minutes from my house and their price is $15.99 per 1ZFR6J-4462 spark plug, I think they have to be ordered. Their price is much better than a local Merc dealer that sells the same plugs for $30 each!! $180 for spark plugs that are recommended to be replaced annually!
I don't change my spark plugs annually but might start if I can get the real deal from O'Reilly's for $16 each. I don't fish tournaments and average less than 20 engine hours per season.
2006 Triton TR-21 XD, Mercury 225 Pro XS, S/N 1B287870
This is interesting as I just bought new plugs for mine through Rock Auto at 8.60 per plug. I was reading this yesterday so I was excited to get the plugs delivered today to check the difference. The ones from Rock Auto appear to have a little of both from what is in the video. Such as, the box is marked EAC but it has there website on it. The plugs also have the nice rounded electrode on the end. I am curious to pull mine out of the engine to compare as mine engine still has the factory plugs in it. I may do that later tonight to see how they compare.
Don.... I went to the link you provided and saw, from NGK, the following photo
NGK's implication is that imitation spark plugs can cause this. Can you explain, in terms I can understand, how a imitation spark plug can cause this kind of damage. Of course there's also a picture of a spark plug with a melted electrode and I'd be curious as to how the plug was responsible for it's own demise as well.
Thanks!
Did a google search on the plug number and since Advance is a dealer per NGK and close to my house,clicked on it.Was looking at it for a second or two and boom!!! 25 % discount flashes up.While I'm not looking for these plugs at the moment and don't guaranty the discount,might be worth looking into if price and time are the deciding factor.
Don.... I went to the link you provided and saw, from NGK, the following photo
NGK's implication is that imitation spark plugs can cause this. Can you explain, in terms I can understand, how a imitation spark plug can cause this kind of damage. Of course there's also a picture of a spark plug with a melted electrode and I'd be curious as to how the plug was responsible for it's own demise as well.
Thanks!
Incorrect heat range, substandard materials or assembly techniques, melted electrode, etc. A lot would depend on "what" the differences are. There's a link in the FAQ (3L) that shows some examples of what using the "wrong" spark plug heat range or type can do.
Most folks only think about the more "immediate" causes (heat range for instance). But... Let's say the plug is too "cool", resulting in an incomplete burn. And it's run that way for 40-60 hours. That's a lot of carbon buildup... some of which lodges on the crown of the piston, and becomes little "glowing embers" attached to the crown of the piston. Eventually- these start acting like glow plugs, and fuel begins to ignite EARLY (essentially pre-ignition). And unchecked... this gets UGLY in a pretty short period of time.
Dual Mercury Master Technician- for Mercury Outboards, Mercruiser and Mercury Racing at European Marine in Greenville, SC.
Still consider myself a "Marine Apprentice" after 47 years (learn something new every day).
Mercury Parts, Mercury Outboards, Smartcraft & Accessories, Injector Service, TDR Reeds- BBC Sponsor
Thanks for the explaination. I do understand how incorrect heat ranges has the potential to cause problems. Though this discussion is centered on imitation products. I do understand NGK’s desire to discredit those who steal from their company. But... I struggle to believe an imitation plug, in the correct heat range, caused the hole in the top of the piston. I guess if I was NGK I would of focused on quality of materials used and precision assembly as a reason to make sure you used real NGK plugs vs an unfounded scare tactic.
Don’t know that I would agree with your “scare tactic” assessment... especially if you’ve dealt with a few similar situations to this:
http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=24924
Dual Mercury Master Technician- for Mercury Outboards, Mercruiser and Mercury Racing at European Marine in Greenville, SC.
Still consider myself a "Marine Apprentice" after 47 years (learn something new every day).
Mercury Parts, Mercury Outboards, Smartcraft & Accessories, Injector Service, TDR Reeds- BBC Sponsor
First... I do not disagree with your suggestion to run only Mercury or original NGK plugs. We are in agreement on that point. That is what I do.
I read/looked at the pictures of the link you posted. It appears that the plug was the incorrect heat range AND reach and those two things caused the catastrophic piston failure. If that engine had NGK plugs in the same incorrect heat range and reach as the counterfeit plugs I suspect the results would have been the same. Returning to my original point if the counterfeit plugs(s) are of the correct heat range and reach I still don't see them burning a hole in the top of the piston. I suppose the point here is that not only is the materials/manufacturing/assembly of counterfeit plugs inferior to NGK the labeling and packaging is inferior/inconsistent to the point that fact alone is reason to avoid counterfeit products. Shall we say quality control is somewhat lacking on the counterfeit parts?
Thanks for the discussion.
Be assured that a higher heat range spark plug than the motor is designed for can result in a hole burnt through a piston. This burn is not directly caused by the spark plug, but by the preignition that the glowing spark plug causes. The tip of the spark plug is not supposed to glow, but it is living in a combustion chamber that reaches over 2000°. If the heat cannot find its way out of the spark plug tip and into the cylinder head where it is carried away, the tip of the plug will glow and the motor will become a compression ignition motor.This means that the burn will begin as soon as the fuel air mix is compressed enough to get hot enough to burn with the help of the glowing spark plug tip. Soon you’re likely to have that hole in the piston. Materials being equal, the heat range of the plug is determined by the distance the heat has to travel down the center electrode and porcelain before it turns and heads
back up to the threaded section of the spark plug where the cylinder head carries the heat to the cooling system.The deeper the porcelain insulator, the hotter the plug. The coldest plug, call the face gap plug, basically has no heat range as there is no depth to the porcelain at the face of the plug.
In the case of an imitation spark plug, although looking quite similar, I would not rely on the materials and procedures used to duplicate the originals performance,Chris
Looking forward to your assessment!
2017 Ranger Z520C / Mercury 250 ProXS 2S
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So I finally made it to changing my plugs. The plugs that came out of my motor are the factory plugs with the factory black over spray on them. Comparing the plugs that I bought from Rock Auto to the ones that were taken out, they are virtually identical. The only two differences that I can see is, the original has an "11" after the plug number. From my understanding the 11 indicates a factory pre gapped plug. The second difference was the lot numbers that were stamped in the metal just above the threads. Both plugs have the word "Japan" on them and are identical even down to the color of the writing on them. IMO if anyone is looking for a good deal on replacement plugs I would check out Rock Auto. I think I paid 8.60 per plug.
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