Switching from Lowrance to Birds in Feb 2020 ... information overload

[Darrel Owens]

I know this is opening a can of worms, but need some advise to clear my head of all the different things I have been told and read, so hear goes.

I bought a 2018 Skeeter ZX250, that has a Minn Kota Ultex (still need to verify if it is the US2 transducer), Ti9 Gn2 on the bow, Ti12 Gn 2 on the dash, and Yamaha 250SHO.
Of course these are networked using the NMEA2000 protocol, except for the engine.

I could not afford to change out to Birds at the time of purchase, but I am now.
I fell in love with the 360 years ago, and what I found to be ease of use that the Birds offer, now that Mega 360 is becoming available, and my finances permit, I will be changing (upgrading in my opinion).
Like most people here, I have a budget that I have to adhere to, until I win the lottery that is, or from some stroke of sheer luck, have someone gift me 10-15k.

I have spoken to a Bird rep at a recent show in Arkansas I attended, as well as a few local dealers in my area, and been looking on the web in several areas.
While not opposed to doing the installation myself, I would rather have this professionally installed.

The local dealers appear to be wanting to up-sell me to the Solix units, and also indicating that I will need a new power management system to support the Solix units as they draw considerably more power that the Helix units. I don't fault them for it, but don't believe that I can afford to upgrade all the electronics, networking, trolling motor (in the event that the transducer is a US2), and power/battery system.

My current questions to everyone who has a similar set up are:

1) Is there truly a noticeable difference between the Helix and Solix units that an average every other weekend warrior like myself would notice?
2) Does the Solix units really need a new power management system?
3) If someone has installed a similar system, how difficult is it to run all the new Ethernet cables, mount the Ethernet switch, preferred switch location?
4) Will the bird units fit in the flush mount plates that the Lowrance units have? Screen sizes will be the same, 9 in the front, 12 on the dash.
5) How hard is it to change out the through hull transducer?


Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Darrel

[Wayne P.]

To support the MEGA 360 takes a G3N Helix DI+ or Helix SI+ model or a SOLIX G2. Read post #1339 here:
http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread....173633&page=67

1. No, not for image quality. SOLIX is touch screen and Helix is buttons plus a few other differences.
2. Makes no difference which series you get, they should be powered separate from the boat's wiring harness. Either directly to the battery or through an added fuse panel. The SOLIX units use more power so they are fused larger.
3. Depends on the path available to route the cables how difficult it is doing that. The Ethernet Switch is 12V powered so that is your first consideration. Then all the Ethernet cables connect to it. The shut-off switch can be anywhere including the boat's main fuse panel with normal power switch---1A fuse.
4. Don't think so, the flush mount cut-out diagrams are on the Humminbird website for you to compare.
5. Done correctly, it is epoxied to the hull. Getting that to separate AND even getting to the location it is can be a challenge. Depends on your determination and dexterity.

[bigboyztoyz]

1) Can't speak on helix-solix differences, I however would spend the money to either go to two graphs up front or at least a 12 if your going to get the most out of your 360, especially if you plan on split screening.

2) I would recommend the addition of a "power management" system. Or putting in new power cables to ensure good clean power, no matter what you put in (helix or solix)

3) it will definitely take some time to do yourself, especially if you've never done before, probably best to have it done right the first time especially when adding a good clean power source.

4) Doubt the units will flush mount, definitely not in the same holes (lowrance-bird are different cut out shapes and sizes)

5) Big hammer, sand paper, grinder and epoxy.

[Darrel Owens]

Thanks Wayne

[Darrel Owens]

1) Can't speak on helix-solix differences, I however would spend the money to either go to two graphs up front or at least a 12 if your going to get the most out of your 360, especially if you plan on split screening.

2) I would recommend the addition of a "power management" system. Or putting in new power cables to ensure good clean power, no matter what you put in (helix or solix)

3) it will definitely take some time to do yourself, especially if you've never done before, probably best to have it done right the first time especially when adding a good clean power source

4) Doubt the units will flush mount, definitely not in the same holes (lowrance-bird are different cut out shapes and sizes)

5) Big hammer, sand paper, grinder and epoxy.

Thanks

[pfisher]

1) I prefer the Helix on the bow and that didn't change with the mega. I already have the helix mounted. Solix on the console for the ease of touch. Images look the same to me.
2) They all need a good clean power source which means separate circuit for graphs.
3) Don't do it yourself. I tried that and while I'm handy it was a mess. Went with a local boat dealer who has an "expert" and had bigger mess. Found independant and it's perfect. Good luck, you will need it.
4) You will regret flush mounting for many reasons.
5) See #3

[Keoweefishing]

I switched from Lowrance to two Helix 12" units a few months ago on a new Skeeter. Both are the mega imaging gen 3's. I have been very pleased with the results and see no big advantage with the Solix based on how I fish.

[Jig_Man]

I have been switching as funds have permitted. I now run 3 Solix units because I am a touch screen junkie. I added a 5th battery for 2 of the units. I went with a North Star X2 for a cranker. I had a Low Gen 3 9 console flush mounted. I had a Solix 10 put in its place.

[Darrel Owens]

1) I prefer the Helix on the bow and that didn't change with the mega. I already have the helix mounted. Solix on the console for the ease of touch. Images look the same to me.
2) They all need a good clean power source which means separate circuit for graphs.
3) Don't do it yourself. I tried that and while I'm handy it was a mess. Went with a local boat dealer who has an "expert" and had bigger mess. Found independant and it's perfect. Good luck, you will need it.
4) You will regret flush mounting for many reasons.
5) See #3

Curious as to why I would regret flush mounting? The bug came with the Lowrance units already flush mounted.

[Darrel Owens]

Ok, I know there is at least one person following this thread because he is doing the same upgrade, so I thought I would share what a few days more of research and a few chats with HB Tech support provided.
I am sure that if Wayne reads this he can either confirm or set me straight, but this is the item list that would need to used for my proposed upgraded system.
The overall idea is to have a Solix 10 MDI flush mounted on the bow, with a Mega 360 and Mega DI external TM transducer (since I will not have the additional 3k to replace the US2 Ultrex, I am reserving that for installation costs). This will be Ethernet networked to a Flush Mount Solix 12 MSI on the dash. The Yamaha 250SHO will be NMEA2K networked to the Solix 12 for engine data. The Solix 12 will have a transom mounted MSI transducer, and possibly a second MDI transducer for on plane readings.

Items are:

14 M360 2DDI Y - Mega 360 and 2D/MDI 14 pin Y cable (Item # 720108-1)
XTM 14 HW MDI T - Sloix Mega DI+ Dual Spectrum CHIRP w/ Temp - Trolling motor transducer (Item# 710291-1)
Mega 360 Imaging for Ultrex (Item # 411250-1)
IDMK S10 - In Dash Mount for Solix 10 (Item 3 740173-1)
Solix 10 CHIRP Mega DI+ G2 CHO (Item # 411090-1 CHO)
AS EC 20E - 20ft Etehrnet Cable (Item # 720073-3)
Solix 12 CHIRP Mega SI+ G2 (Item # 411030-1)
IDMK S12R - In dash Mounting Kit for Solix 12 (Item # 740176-1)

Optional Second transducer and Y cable
14M SIDB Y ( Item # 720103-1)
XM 14 20 MDI T (Item # 710271-1)

As I am only networking the 2 control heads, and they are alread Nmea2K compatable, there was no need for a 5 port switch or Ethernet/Nmea2K adapter.

Non HB Items that will be needed (or wanted)
Transducer Saver for TM Transducer (Transducer Shield and Saver is on of many on the market)
Lowrance Interface cable for Yamaha engine (Seems to be the only one on the market)
NMEA2K starter kit (in case your boat does not have a powered backbone)

Without installation, or overlooking something, this list should total $7,200.00 to $7,500.00 in equipment.

Last but not least, HB Tech support advised that they are still looking at Mega 360 to be available in December.

The wife tells me this better be the last upgrade I do; I just looked at her for a moment, then told her to hope nothing breaks after they have better tech out. I got slapped on the back the head....LOL.

[Wayne P.]

Ok, I know there is at least one person following this thread because he is doing the same upgrade, so I thought I would share what a few days more of research and a few chats with HB Tech support provided.
I am sure that if Wayne reads this he can either confirm or set me straight, but this is the item list that would need to used for my proposed upgraded system.
The overall idea is to have a Solix 10 MDI flush mounted on the bow, with a Mega 360 and Mega DI external TM transducer (since I will not have the additional 3k to replace the US2 Ultrex, I am reserving that for installation costs). This will be Ethernet networked to a Flush Mount Solix 12 MSI on the dash. The Yamaha 250SHO will be NMEA2K networked to the Solix 12 for engine data. The Solix 12 will have a transom mounted MSI transducer, and possibly a second MDI transducer for on plane readings.

Items are:

14 M360 2DDI Y - Mega 360 and 2D/MDI 14 pin Y cable (Item # 720108-1)
XTM 14 HW MDI T - Sloix Mega DI+ Dual Spectrum CHIRP w/ Temp - Trolling motor transducer (Item# 710291-1)
Mega 360 Imaging for Ultrex (Item # 411250-1)
IDMK S10 - In Dash Mount for Solix 10 (Item 3 740173-1)
Solix 10 CHIRP Mega DI+ G2 CHO (Item # 411090-1 CHO)
AS EC 20E - 20ft Etehrnet Cable (Item # 720073-3)
Solix 12 CHIRP Mega SI+ G2 (Item # 411030-1)
IDMK S12R - In dash Mounting Kit for Solix 12 (Item # 740176-1)

Optional Second transducer and Y cable
14M SIDB Y ( Item # 720103-1)
XM 14 20 MDI T (Item # 710271-1)

As I am only networking the 2 control heads, and they are alread Nmea2K compatable, there was no need for a 5 port switch or Ethernet/Nmea2K adapter.

Non HB Items that will be needed (or wanted)
Transducer Saver for TM Transducer (Transducer Shield and Saver is on of many on the market)
Lowrance Interface cable for Yamaha engine (Seems to be the only one on the market)
NMEA2K starter kit (in case your boat does not have a powered backbone)

Without installation, or overlooking something, this list should total $7,200.00 to $7,500.00 in equipment.

Last but not least, HB Tech support advised that they are still looking at Mega 360 to be available in December.

The wife tells me this better be the last upgrade I do; I just looked at her for a moment, then told her to hope nothing breaks after they have better tech out. I got slapped on the back the head....LOL.

Do not need a MDI transducer for on-plane depth reading--wasted expense since a Y cable only connects the 2D piezo on the 2D side of the Y cable. Just need a XNT 14 HW for the transom or XP 14 HW for shoot-thru. Your wife will appreciate the cost savings.

The XTM 14 HW MDI T comes with a trolling motor mount, may want to try that first before spending $100+ for a TS&S mount.
The slap on the head will be more gentle.
I have been knocking around timber and stumps for a few months using the Humminbird mount on my trolling motor with no ill effects.
If I ever break it, I may get the TS&S mount.

[Hollada]

A couple of things to consider.
- if you have an ultrex, or plan to get one, you’ll need the 5 port switch
- the solix are more complex to learn and use than the helix. Lots of options to set and learn and are also somewhat prone to - for lack of a better word - “flakiness”. Data gets corrupted somehow causing the units to act strange and requiring a restore to factory defaults. Also remember that the solix and helix are completely different operating systems not just that one has touch screen and one doesn’t.

[Darrel Owens]

Hey Wayne, everyone, I need a bit more advice.

During Thanksgiving, I spent some time opening panels and truly looking behind the mounting plates on my 2018 Skeeter ZX250. I have found that on the bow, there is not enough room to dash mount a Solix 10 (recessed). The same holds true for the Solix 12 on the dash, because of the way the fiberglass was cut.
I have ordered the bow and dash blanks from Skeeter to close the cut outs, but now I have the decisions to make on actual mounts to use.
Reading the various threads, there seem to be 3-4 good aftermarket choices, all with pros and cons. But my question revolves around the gimble mount itself. On the High Seas electronics, mounting such a unit on the vertical (such as a wall) with the gimble is not a problem, as ships do not see the pounding that a bass boat does. The installation manual show to mount the gimble on the horizontal either above or below, but does not address mounting it to a dash panel and having it be behind the unit.
I know that this is physically possible, but not sure these gimbles are sturdy enough to support the weigh and load that this configuration would be subject to.
I have seen one solution to use a piece of angle iron to mount to the dash panels, effectively altering the mounting by 90 degrees.

So the question is, can the stock gimble be used in this configuration of being 90 degrees off of the screen instead of in line above or below the screen? Or do I need to fabricate or purchase an after market mount to have the gimble in line, as shown in the installation manual?

Thanks in advance.

[Wayne P.]

Hey Wayne, everyone, I need a bit more advice.

During Thanksgiving, I spent some time opening panels and truly looking behind the mounting plates on my 2018 Skeeter ZX250. I have found that on the bow, there is not enough room to dash mount a Solix 10 (recessed). The same holds true for the Solix 12 on the dash, because of the way the fiberglass was cut.
I have ordered the bow and dash blanks from Skeeter to close the cut outs, but now I have the decisions to make on actual mounts to use.
Reading the various threads, there seem to be 3-4 good aftermarket choices, all with pros and cons. But my question revolves around the gimble mount itself. On the High Seas electronics, mounting such a unit on the vertical (such as a wall) with the gimble is not a problem, as ships do not see the pounding that a bass boat does. The installation manual show to mount the gimble on the horizontal either above or below, but does not address mounting it to a dash panel and having it be behind the unit.
I know that this is physically possible, but not sure these gimbles are sturdy enough to support the weigh and load that this configuration would be subject to.
I have seen one solution to use a piece of angle iron to mount to the dash panels, effectively altering the mounting by 90 degrees.

So the question is, can the stock gimble be used in this configuration of being 90 degrees off of the screen instead of in line above or below the screen? Or do I need to fabricate or purchase an after market mount to have the gimble in line, as shown in the installation manual?

Thanks in advance.

The included gimbal mount is substantial enough to support the display regardless of its position. Convenient access or even any access to the cable connections is affected by the position.
Vertical under, 90 degrees up to top are OK. Between under and 90 is problematic. Got one in my lap now checking that.

[Darrel Owens]

Thanks Wayne,
My best estimate would be that I would be 90 degrees +/- 10 degrees. Both the dash and the bow are already on a "viewing angle" so not much adjustment would be needed. Next issue will be for me to confirm clearance on the dash, with the steering wheel (luckily that is adjustable, and all the way up feels like driving a bus..lol).


Luckily Toledo Bend is about 7 foot low currently and my is boat "stuck" in the lift at the moment. If I was out fishing regularly, I would likely have already ordered everything, and be waiting on the Mega 360, though I will move my timeline up some. Gives me an excuse to be in the boat, even if it is in the lift.

[Darrel Owens]

Gents,
Just an update after checking with many places, researching, etc. Many people here on BBC have advised that BBG Marine Electronics is the best pricing on the Mega 360. Even considering my discounts and rebates at other companies, I can attest that they do indeed have the best pricing on the Mega 360.

They advise that the current "expected" delivery time for the 32 orders in front of mine is mid to late January.... all subject to Humminbird delays. I picked a number, and now standing in line...LOL.

[06 SB]

Brian at BBG is top notch. I think I have paid a few house payments for him...

If looking at mounts that are not flush mounted, look at Precision Sonar for single and dual mounts. I had those on my last boat and they were awesome. Like Wayne wrote, the OEM gimbals will work just fine.

[Darrel Owens]

Ok, things are getting real now.
2 Solix 12 G2 units will be here Friday (Mega SI+ and Mega DI+ CHO)
y cable for the dash (2D/Mega) already here
XTM 14 HW MDI T is already installed
AS GPS HS in hand
Ethernet cable in hand
Transducer Saver 360 bracket in hand
mounting bracket and blank plates in hand (needs a bit of customization)

Only waiting on the Mega 360 and the Y cable for the bow, but the rest will be installed over the next few weeks.

I am like a child on Christmas eve.... Lets open all the presents mom!!!!

Thanks to everyone, ESPECIALLY Wayne P, for the advise and guidance. At times I felt like I was bothersome, sorry if it came across that way.

Pictures will come soon.

Last but not least, Brian at BBG Marine does an awesome job at beating prices and just simply being a nice guy willing to help a customer. He has earned a loyal customer in me. Now if he only sold tackle too...LOL.

[Darrel Owens]

IMG_9249.jpgIMG_9248.jpg

Ok, Got the Solix units installed last week, was playing around with them in front of our boat house where I placed some PVC structures. Previously these structures were not seen with my Lowrance units, my brothers units (high end Lowrance) or my neighbors units (older Humminbird) but here they are (at least the shadows) and I have not even played much with the settings to dial them in. I can honestly say that I am impressed and excited to start using these units. Now if only that darn M360 would show up!!!

[Darrel Owens]

Is this an optical illusion? or is something out of adjustment? The Ultrex was installed by the dealer when I bought the boat, and I never noticed anything unusual until I installed the 360.
the bracket on the 360 is factory with at TSS stabilizer, and I would think the two shafts should be parallel. It also make it look like the Ultrex head is cocked. Perhaps adjustment of the Ultrex support leg is in order.
Thoughts?
360.jpg