High Speed Transducer (shoot through hull) good news I guess

[BassCatKev]

I've been on here complaining in the past about my shoot through high speed transducer in the bilge not reading consistently. Wayne and others have consulted me plenty about this. Basically I lose depth (and therefore ranging on sonar and DI) at my console units frequently. I have 2 Helix 10s Gen 1 at console. One of them is a SI unit which receives the info from the transom HDSI transducer and high speed shoot through in bilge. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't display depth/range. Sometimes it shares depth correctly to the unit immediately beside it. However, this is rarely. I tolerate it not sharing the depth to the one beside it because I only use other unit for mapping. Well I just got back from a five day trip to Lake Barkley/Ky Lake. For the FIRST TIME EVER the SI unit correctly gave the depth ALL THE TIME. Not a single time was I required to restart to have it start giving me the correct depth again. I spend the vast majority of my time a Lake Cumberland which is a much deeper lake. The deepest water I was in last week at Barkley may have been 45 feet in the main channel.
I've had this boat 2 years and it's never been right. I'm too chicken to try busting the shoot through out of bilge fiberglass because I'm scared I'll make something worse. And I've never been 100% convinced the shoot through is the issue in the first place (I replaced Y cable and that didn't fix it btw). Last week I was getting proper depth reading at all speeds all the time. Still not sharing correctly to the unit beside it, but working on the unit I use for 2D, Di, and SI.

Why did it always work at Barkley? Was it because it's a shallower place?

I'll set my Max Depth to 100 feet but it still will go to 1.9 and stay there many times a day. I suppose I could set it shallower than that considering I never really need to know anything that deep. But the depth and ranging working nonstop was just wonderful and I'd love for it to always be that way. I'll bet you $100 when I go to deep Cumberland this weekend it will go back to doing that same ch?t.

Any comments or suggestions?

[bobcoy]

Kev, I am not going to go back and read the whole saga. With Wayne helping you are in the best hand there is. That said. have you done any testing of the installation of the shoot through transducer?(like add water to the bilge to see if it works better)? If it works better the puck is loose. Was it raining at Barkley. Possibly enough bilge water to get a better sonic connection? Bob

[BassCatKev]

Was not raining first 3 days. Did rain one day in between. In regards to testing, the shoot through is epoxied in. So no testing.
Can you explain more about sonic connection?

[bobcoy]

If your "in hull" has loosened( they all do after pounding waves for a time. The epoxy or even the glass it is glued to will de-laminate or just plain separate in spots. Not completely slide away but enough where the vibrations from the transducer get a weak connection with the hull and much of the power is not getting through the hull to the water. Same for the return echo. A diagnosing procedure is to put enough water in the bilge so the transducer is under water or at least the bottom part. With the water filling the air pockets most of the signal is restored. If you get a better signal then you know you need to replace the transducer or at least remove,sand the puck and the area to be used in the hull and re-epoxy.(reuse if it does not break when you hammer it loose!) Bob
Installing the puck you will want to use a modified version to test to find the best spot for the new ducer. There is a wright-up in the stickies somewhere
I just ripped this off from Wayne's recent post! http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=172972 POST#2

[Rip Bass]

Don’t use a hammer to knock the transducer loose. Hold it firmly with channel lock pliers and rock it side to side,the epoxy will usually break loose with no damage

[BassCatKev]

Don’t use a hammer to knock the transducer loose. Hold it firmly with channel lock pliers and rock it side to side,the epoxy will usually break loose with no damage

Really?! I never would have thought that worked.

[BassCatKev]

Don’t use a hammer to knock the transducer loose. Hold it firmly with channel lock pliers and rock it side to side,the epoxy will usually break loose with no damage

I'm not committed to removing that sucker yet. There is another high speed shoot through right beside the one I use that must have been from a previous installation before I got the boat. Not much room left. IF or WHEN I remove this shoot through, can I replace it or another one in the exact same location?

[Wayne P.]

I'm not committed to removing that sucker yet. There is another high speed shoot through right beside the one I use that must have been from a previous installation before I got the boat. Not much room left. IF or WHEN I remove this shoot through, can I replace it or another one in the exact same location?

IF you don't do the proper pre-install testing for a shoot-thru it's just a crap shoot if it will function properly.

[DougL58]

As Bob said, Flood the bilge and test. If it works, your puck has air gaps and needs to be reinstalled or replaced. You could also connect to the other puck and see if it works better.

[Bugguy]

I used to get 1.9' readings all the time while on plane, and sometimes while fishing. last year I upgraded to HELIX 10's, so I replaced the shoot thru transducer. I worked on getting that thing loose for 30 minutes with a big pair of channel locks and couldn't get it to budge. Couldn't get it loose with a hammer and chisel either. so I had to break it into pieces and grind the bilge smooth to install the new one. You would think that as hard as it was to remove, that wouldn't have been the cause of losing depth readings. But I tested the new location on the water per the manual, glued it down, and now get correct readings 100% of the time.

[BassCatKev]

^^^^^^^
This is exactly why I don't want to take that dam shoot through out. But I'm down here at Cumberland and said in post #1 that I thought it would go back to it's old ways once I got to this deeper lake. Well I'm wrong so far, it has NOT lost correct depth a single time. It has read depth perfectly at all speeds all day. 50 mph over 90 ft of water no problem. However, as usual, it's not sharing depth to the other consol unit beside it. That one is usually locked on 1.9 but will show identical correct depth as unit beside it about 2% of the time. I don't know why they aren't networking depth consistently (yes 100% certain 1.9 depth unit is networked with unit beside it using shoot through). It's irritating but I've lived with it by just using that one for chart and ignoring depth box. If anyone has any ideas on that please share.

[Wayne P.]

^^^^^^^
This is exactly why I don't want to take that dam shoot through out. But I'm down here at Cumberland and said in post #1 that I thought it would go back to it's old ways once I got to this deeper lake. Well I'm wrong so far, it has NOT lost correct depth a single time. It has read depth perfectly at all speeds all day. 50 mph over 90 ft of water no problem. However, as usual, it's not sharing depth to the other consol unit beside it. That one is usually locked on 1.9 but will show identical correct depth as unit beside it about 2% of the time. I don't know why they aren't networking depth consistently (yes 100% certain 1.9 depth unit is networked with unit beside it using shoot through). It's irritating but I've lived with it by just using that one for chart and ignoring depth box. If anyone has any ideas on that please share.

Let's start over with your setup.
You have two units at the console.
You have a shoot-thru and a transom transducer installed I assume.
Both the shoot-thru and transom transducer should be connected to ONE display with a Y cable.
The other unit should not have a transducer connected to it, or have a transducer connected with Sonar turned OFF or both.
The two console units sharing all data via Ethernet.

The unit with the transducers connected should have the Connected Transducer setting at Default (whatever the unit model is).
The unit without a transducer connected should have the transducer connected unit as the source for 2D/DI/SI/Temp in the Network menu. If you have a remote GPS antenna at the transom, both units should have the unit with the antenna connected to it as the source for Ext GPS.
If your Ethernet is working, the unit will no transducer and Sonar OFF should show the exact same thing as the unit with the transducers connected. The transducer connected units is processing all the data, and sharing it to the non-transducer unit.
None of that is automatic, you have to choose the data source.

[BassCatKev]

Unit that is connected to the transom mounted transducer and shoot through with Y cable has options under Connected Transducer of 50/200 khz+ 262/455 khz SI, HB 83/200 khz, HB 50/200 khz, Compact Side Imaging, or High Definition Side Imaging.

High Definition Side Imaging is what I keep selected there and use as it is clearly the best images and I think is what my transom ducer is that does DI/SI.

I just went back to my boat sitting in water 101 feet (I'm on a houseboat) and went through everything you said. Most of it sounded familiar. The unit that is NOT connected to transducers has sonar off. In the network menu, it is sharing from the unit with transducers for DI/SI/2d/temp. I didn't have anything selected for temp since I don't care if it's displayed on that unit but went ahead and selected same temp as unit with ducers as well. And yes I have an external gps at transom and both units have it selected in network. I'm 100% certain on all that.
The unit connected to transducers is a gen1 helix 10 SI. The unit beside it is a gen1 helix 10 Sonar GPS.
I'm not 100% clear when you say "Connected Transucer on unit with ducers connected should be set at default (whatever the unit model is)." I'm 99% sure I have a HDSI transom mount ducer so assumed I should have High Def Side Imaging selected as my Connected Transducer on unit connected to transducers.
By the way, when I went outside to turn these 2 units on, the non transducer connected unit was reading correct depth as transducers connected unit. But I'm telling you vast majority of time it does not show depth correctly and says 1.9.
So right now at this moment, sonar is turned OFF and it's showing DI/SI/2d identical to ducer connected unit beside it. But when I go out tomorrow and run around I'd bet you the non ducer connected one will revert back to 1.9 within 10 minutes while the transducers connected one will likely continue reading and displaying depth correctly.

[Wayne P.]

Must be a faulty Ethernet cable or connection.

[Wayne P.]

Next time on the water with all your units operating, take a picture of the console unit without transducer of the Network menu with 2D Sonar selected.
Then when you get the 1.9’ again, take a picture of that view.

[BassCatKev]

I have all the pics you requested. When I went out this morning the non ducers unit went to 1.9 for most of morning. Right now while tied up at houseboat they're both at 101 feet which is accurate. My unit with connected ducers has not failed to read the correct depth a single time all weekend. By the way, if this helps with anything, when watching both of these console units, they IMMEDIATELY update the identical temp, speed, and, when it's working, depth. I'm talking instant adjustments like it should be. BUT, I've noticed COG does NOT update instantly and the 2 will oftentimes not even be within 5 units of each other (yes they're using same external transom antenna). They'll both be changing COG but not with the same numbers. I've noticed this with my front ones with heading and COG not being identical between the two units even though they're all changing. I know that is for another thread but in case it's relevant here....
I will post all the pics tonight. I need good internet service and time to get that done.

[BassCatKev]

https://postimg.cc/gallery/39fa5qhso/

Right unit is the one receiving plug from transom ducer asnd shoot thru with Y cable.
Right unit is named Crab1 and left unit is Crab2.