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  1. #1
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    Merc 2.4 200 - why did it blow?

    As per my earlier post, I have a mid - late 80s Reman 200 merc on a 150 mariner 150 mid. 1.87 gear lower. It's a former member heres boat and I want to restore it and the motor and get it going again in his honor. It had the top starboard piston melted with a hole in the center. Got it split, and ready to rebuild, but cannot find a reason it blew. I expected to find plugged jets, stuck float.. something, yet I found nothing. I'm going to replace water pump as a precaution. I have the wh-39 carbs. Are these the proper jets?

    Any ideas as to why she blew? Other 5 cylinders look great. Perhaps old fuel and too far advanced timing?



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    #2
    Did you blow carb cleaner through all the small holes/passages, check the float level, needle/seat, fuel lines between carbs, etc. Also running hot (with low WP) can certainly do that, as it is the highest cylinder in the block. I saw more than one 2.5 racing motor blow #1 due to water pressure issues. One other thing comes to mind... foreign object damage. My very first piston failure on a 2.5 racing motor was due to a single screw coming off of one reed block, running thru the motor, and leaving a clear impression in a couple of spots on top of the piston, With a "rip" near the exhaust port, probably when it was carried out. This was a new motor and Merc warrantied it, but still...

    That being said, you really need to do due diligence so that it is not a rinse and repeat type failure.
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    #3
    Yessir, I soaked them in carb cleaner for 24 hours, then used a small wire to get all the small orifices and passages, along with compressed air. floats appear to be level, and no resistance in any of the needles and seats. I took them out and cleaned with compressed air and wire for the seat, and wiped clean the needles, finding nothing. All fuel lines will be replaced. Also plan to install a new impeller. Im not after speed at all with this setup, in fact, 55 mph is plenty fast enough for me, as my current boat does 35 mph and thats fast enough in the rocky shallow river. I plan on setting the motor at 4 - 4.5" below pad, and just running it as is, no jack plate or anything.

    I did find 3 NGK bu8h gapless plugs laying in the boat, so ill assume thats the ones that were used in the motor. Are those the correct plugs?








    Quote Originally Posted by OldTimer57 View Post
    Did you blow carb cleaner through all the small holes/passages, check the float level, needle/seat, fuel lines between carbs, etc. Also running hot (with low WP) can certainly do that, as it is the highest cylinder in the block. I saw more than one 2.5 racing motor blow #1 due to water pressure issues. One other thing comes to mind... foreign object damage. My very first piston failure on a 2.5 racing motor was due to a single screw coming off of one reed block, running thru the motor, and leaving a clear impression in a couple of spots on top of the piston, With a "rip" near the exhaust port, probably when it was carried out. This was a new motor and Merc warrantied it, but still...

    That being said, you really need to do due diligence so that it is not a rinse and repeat type failure.
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    #4
    Is it possible that someone installed the wrong spark plug in that cylinder and it was too long and beat a hole in the piston?
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by leonreno View Post
    Is it possible that someone installed the wrong spark plug in that cylinder and it was too long and beat a hole in the piston?
    i suppose its possible, but to me it looks like it was very lean and very hot. I just cannot locate the cause for either of those. even the thermostats tested out ok.
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  6. BBC SPONSOR
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    #6
    Unnecessary failures

    Rebuilding 3,yes,3 225 promax powerheads last month,and I believe another on the way...2 due to compromised fuel systems,and one oil mixer failure.The oil failure burned a rod bearing,but the other 2 died from detonation,and this could have been prevented by proper maintainance.<br>Making this post to let folks know we now,after a year of in shop work,can offer complete fuel injection service including injector cleaning,flow and pattern testing,and matching to the proper cylinders.This addition to our abilities was to first streamline and improve our production,and with the exception of ficht and etec injectors(working on those),we can complete all aspects of premium quality remanufacturing of 2 stroke outboards under one roof.We have now decided to offer our fuel system service to the public,so,if you have concerns,give a call.<br>In the meantime,seeing as how detonation plays a very big role in destroying motors,especially in the spring when old fuel kills em...I thought i would re-post ...
    Detonation and preignitioned defined

    I see folks refer to detonation and preignition often,and even now and then someone suggests predetonation as the reason for certain engine failures.btw,predetonation isn't a condition that has taken place...sort of like a preheated oven,it's either heated or it's not,you've either suffered detonation or you havent.
    We will start with the simple one and get it out of the way,preignition.This is also slightly misnamed,it would be more correct to be named pre-planned-ignition.Preingition refers to the ignition of the compressed fuel/air in the cylinder before the spark takes place that was meant to begin the combustion process.This is usually caused by a glowing piece of carbon or spark plug tip,and can be brought on by overheat,wrong plugs,or excessive carbon buildup.In certain rare cases it can also be caused by the hot exhaust from a nearby cylinder igniting the fuel/air mix as the ports are closing on the subject cylinder,this is usually encountered on highly modified high rpm motors.enough of preignition,and onto the common real problem,detonation.
    Detonation,by definition,is simply a condition in which the piston is forced to compress an already expanding (burning)fuel/air charge in the cylinder,resulting in higher temperatures/pressures than normal,and the resulting shock and damage is termed "detonation damage".This damage can be insidious and slow,in mild detonation cases,or immediate and extensive in heavy detonation cases.
    Detonation damage is usually most apparent in severe cases as melted and seized pistons,in mild or low-level cases the constant bouncing of needle bearings can cause chatter marks(the chipping away of surface metal) on the crankshaft journals,as well as the wrist pins and rod bearing surfaces.Piston ring land breakage is another common result of low-level detonation.While most folks understand the severe cases,the low-level damage is often attributed ot other causes.So...
    To understand detonation,we have to examine its causes,and there are plenty of them.A motor is designed and tuned to capture the force created by burning fuel/air and put it to work,turning a propeller through a series of rods,cranks,shafts and gears.In order to maximize the useful available power,we must light the fire at precisely the right to get a full burn without developing excessively high pressures.Many factors come into play,but the main ones are compression,fuel octane,timing advance,engine temperature,and operating rpm.Realize this...probably the most important things for the boat owner to understand,is the fuel/air burns at a constant speed although the motor changes speed.Because of this we have systems to advance spark timing to assure that at high rpms the engine won't outrun the burn time of the fuel/air mix.The other factors that play heavily in this equation are fuel octane and engine rpm.Rpm is simply the speed of rotation...revolutions per minute,and octane is a relative speed of burn,the higher the octane the slower and more consistent the burn,or"push".
    Realize that lowering engine rpm effectively increases spark timing,as it causes the piston to get to top dead center later,allowing time for the combustion pressure to grow,setting the scene for detonation damage.
    This trouble can be avoided by using fresh fuel of adequate octane,maintaining a clean fuel system,doing proper routine maintainence,and propping to achieve full recommended rpm.Low level detonation is a lot like high blood pressure,over time it breaks things down.
    Hope this helps,Chris

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    #7
    Great read, thanks for posting.

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    #8
    Is there any special break in for these chrome bores? I typically just run double oil and very the throttle for the first 10 hours
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    #9
    I suspect either lean of bad fuel. But with the other 5 OK, probably something in the top carb. Also make sure the reeds are all good. Stock reeds are steel, if they are still there, replace with fiber reeds.
    While you have the powerhead off, put a 200 tuner on it. The 150 tuner is restrictive reducing top end HP.

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    #10
    Just to add, replacing the tuner will kill bottom end torque. Might gain a little on top end, but not much with 150 porting and breathing..
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    #11
    Josh,I guess I commented on another site,but please note you have a main jet in the wrong location...not sure why no one has mentioned that.Number 2 and 5 cylinders get the 082's,the rest get 080's.Also,remember the port carb barrels feed the starboard cylinders,and vice-versa,Chris

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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by John Jackson View Post
    I suspect either lean of bad fuel. But with the other 5 OK, probably something in the top carb. Also make sure the reeds are all good. Stock reeds are steel, if they are still there, replace with fiber reeds.
    While you have the powerhead off, put a 200 tuner on it. The 150 tuner is restrictive reducing top end HP.
    No, it will not. It was used by mercury to restrict top HP. The tuner on an outboard is not like a tuner on a bike. It's more like a collector extention. The exhaust ports remain roughly an inch long and that's it. The tuner extends the chamber, and when small and long choke the exhaust off.

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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by OldTimer57 View Post
    Just to add, replacing the tuner will kill bottom end torque. Might gain a little on top end, but not much with 150 porting and breathing..
    No, it will not. The tuner on an outboard is not like the tuner on a bike. The exhaust port is only about an inch long no matter what. The tuner is an extension of the exhaust cavity, more like a collector extension. The tuner, especially a long small one, chokes off the exhaust flow.

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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisCarsonMarine View Post
    Josh,I guess I commented on another site,but please note you have a main jet in the wrong location...not sure why no one has mentioned that.Number 2 and 5 cylinders get the 082's,the rest get 080's.Also,remember the port carb barrels feed the starboard cylinders,and vice-versa,Chris
    most people don't realize horizontal reed mtrs are crossflow
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by OldTimer57 View Post
    Just to add, replacing the tuner will kill bottom end torque. Might gain a little on top end, but not much with 150 porting and breathing..
    He said he’s running a 200 powerhead, so I sure wouldn’t be running that long 150 tuner.
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    #16
    may not know which tuner is in it would hope its older bell shape xr2 150 had um also
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by JOE54 View Post
    most people don't realize horizontal reed mtrs are crossflow
    Joe,for what it's worth,the crossflow design generally refers to the cylinder scavenging design,not the crankcase path regarding fuel/air from the carbs to the cylinder banks.A crossflow cylinder design brings the fuel/air mix into the cylinder from ports outside the cylinder,while loop charge and direct charge designs incorporate passages in the piston that correspond with passages or notches in the cylinder walls to bring the mix into the cylinder.The crossflow design was the first used in the 2 stroke motors,and is somewhat considered old tech these days,the newer designs offering more power and economy,especially at higher rpm's,Chris

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    #18
    Keep in mind- there's a lot of items to consider, the most important of which is that we don't really know with 100% accuracy what this "FrankenMerc" actually consists of. Chris makes a good point on the jets- but we really can't say for certain at this point what carbs are on it, what jets SHOULD be in it, etc... simply inadequate info at this point and time.

    Start with exact ID of the powerhead, then carbs, then jets, then tuner, etc.


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