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  1. Banned RazorShine's Avatar
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    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Les Young View Post
    Plain & simple we like our smallmouth & most you'll talk to think it's bullshit that they do it. They're suppose to be the best bass fishermen in the world.Well prove it by bringing 18" smallmouth to the scales.
    You can look at it this way. If they didn't bring in 15" smallmouth, and had to use the 18" requirement, then it would show how the lake really sucks. While being selfish, you would say that is great, because nobody would come there. But the realist in the community understand the economic "kick" an event give the local businesses and the advantage of out of state fishermen visiting the community. Just putting a different spin on it. I for one, am one of those fishermen that could come down there for weekend to fish.

  2. RIP Evinrude 1907-2020 JR19's Avatar
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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by RazorShine View Post
    You can look at it this way. If they didn't bring in 15" smallmouth, and had to use the 18" requirement, then it would show how the lake really sucks. While being selfish, you would say that is great, because nobody would come there. But the realist in the community understand the economic "kick" an event give the local businesses and the advantage of out of state fishermen visiting the community. Just putting a different spin on it. I for one, am one of those fishermen that could come down there for weekend to fish.

    Please do not take this as a personal attack because that is not my intent...let me put my spin on look at it this way. I can think of 3 or possibly 4 events where KDFW reduced the SM size limit for tournaments that had 200 or so boats. There was a large high school event at the first of October that had 203 boats and KDFW allowed them to weigh in 15" SM. What if we let those high school anglers buy alcohol because the $ stimulated the economy. I know that is a harsh and unrealistic statement to make but my point is rules and regulations are made to protect something that needs protection.

    Fish are a fragile natural resource that needs regulations and protection. When you allow large groups to use different regulations than the general public it does not sit well with some people. Especially when it looks like the sole reason was done for $...and for the record I support the economy of Somerset area even though I live 45 miles away. I buy tackle from a store in the area. I had my boat service at a Evinrude dealer in the area. Heck I will sometimes make the 90 mile round trip just for some Sunny's BBQ. I am not against supporting the local economy but I am against them changing the SM regulation because a large group is going to spend $.


    On a side note it is hard to be a Burton and not have kin in Brown, Johnson or Barthololmew county.
    Last edited by JR19; 11-05-2019 at 12:00 AM.

  3. RIP Evinrude 1907-2020 JR19's Avatar
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    #23
    Earlier in this post I spoke about Matt Pangrac. For those who don't know who he is he is the co-host of Bass Talk Live. He finished 3rd in the Cumberland Costa event but his final day story is a wild roller coaster ride. He was almost late due to boat trouble. Then it gets even more crazy because he leaves Cumberland and drives to Nashville airport to pick up his girlfriend so she can drive him though the night to get to Oklahoma so he can fish a BASS nation tournament on Sunday that can potentially lead to a Bassmaster Classic spot. He has no trolling motor battery charge and has boat trouble again but still finishes 5th there to qualify for the OK state team. The details of his weekend is an interesting story to hear...


    If you want to skip the Seth Fider interview and hear about Matt's wild weekend listen to the 47:25 - 58:00 mark.



    Last edited by JR19; 11-05-2019 at 12:03 AM.

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    #24
    I went the day 2 (Friday) weigh in. My parents have a place on lower end. My took my dad up to Burnside in my boat. We fished our way up there all day. Taco John's had a stand at weigh in serving coffee (really good) and burritos and nachos. There was a Costa Sunglasses 10% table. I think that was it. They had stage, weigh in line, and release boats set up very similar to how they did the tour
    events. We watched about an hour of weigh in but had to get back down to our boat to get home before dark. Ling ride down lake to Grider Hill. We had a wonderful day.

  5. Member
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by RazorShine View Post
    You can look at it this way. If they didn't bring in 15" smallmouth, and had to use the 18" requirement, then it would show how the lake really sucks. While being selfish, you would say that is great, because nobody would come there. But the realist in the community understand the economic "kick" an event give the local businesses and the advantage of out of state fishermen visiting the community. Just putting a different spin on it. I for one, am one of those fishermen that could come down there for weekend to fish.
    The only thing I don’t care for like a lot of folks is them being allowed to bring shorts to the scales. If you think it bothers me with out of town fishermen coming here you’re badly mistaken. Cumberland can handle lots of pressure. There are some local guys that would beat the top finishers easily, but with 18” smallmouth. Cumberland has some top sticks the same as any other lake although i’m not one of them. My one & only complaint is the reduced size limit period. As far as out of towners coming here to fish come down on the weekend this summer & i’ll take you smallmouth fishing.

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    #26
    Since the regular C-Land anglers are so passionate about not breaking the size limit... Do you all feel the size limit should be pushed back to 15" for smallies much like almost every other lake in the state?

    Also, playing devils advocate...... Have you thought that KDFW is comparing catch rates of this tourney against other recorded tourney results with the 18" limit enforced to measure the affects on angler catches? Large events provide them with many creels to measure from vs smaller tourneys in which they would have to compile/combine many tourneys to get the sample size. With all existing local tourneys, there is already enough data provide them a baseline for 18". These large tourneys give them their large sample size in one weekend event. They may be using the data to measure the effectiveness of the lake's limits. With a by product being a boost to the local economy due to traveling anglers and staff, it seems like a win-win.
    Phoenix 721 - Yamaha SHO 250 - 8' Blades

  7. RIP Evinrude 1907-2020 JR19's Avatar
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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by dstep0 View Post
    Since the regular C-Land anglers are so passionate about not breaking the size limit... Do you all feel the size limit should be pushed back to 15" for smallies much like almost every other lake in the state?

    Also, playing devils advocate...... Have you thought that KDFW is comparing catch rates of this tourney against other recorded tourney results with the 18" limit enforced to measure the affects on angler catches?
    Yes I have thought about that and my conclusion is there have been zero reports of KDFW doing any delayed mortality study on legal size smallmouth. If someone knows of one please share the information. It was pure propaganda smoke they blew saying it was for a mortality study. The regulations were changed for $.

    As for a 15" SM limit on Cumberland it would not bother me one way or another. I only fish that lake about 10 or so times a year. I seldom tournament fish and I am 100% catch and release on bass so 15 or 18 makes no difference to me. I do suppose the 18" limit allows more to grow to a bigger size but as I said I don't fish it but about 10 or so times a year so it really does not bother me either way. I just want the same regulations for everybody. If they do change it to a 15" and then they allow large out of town groups to start weighing in 12"ers were right back to the same issue of making exception for large groups who spend $ and excluding the everyday angler who supports the local economy on a daily basis. Make one set of regulations and have everyone follow it...problem solved

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    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by JR19 View Post
    Yes I have thought about that and my conclusion is there have been zero reports of KDFW doing any delayed mortality study on legal size smallmouth. If someone knows of one please share the information. It was pure propaganda smoke they blew saying it was for a mortality study. The regulations were changed for $.

    As for a 15" SM limit on Cumberland it would not bother me one way or another. I only fish that lake about 10 or so times a year. I seldom tournament fish and I am 100% catch and release on bass so 15 or 18 makes no difference to me. I do suppose the 18" limit allows more to grow to a bigger size but as I said I don't fish it but about 10 or so times a year so it really does not bother me either way. I just want the same regulations for everybody. If they do change it to a 15" and then they allow large out of town groups to start weighing in 12"ers were right back to the same issue of making exception for large groups who spend $ and excluding the everyday angler who supports the local economy on a daily basis. Make one set of regulations and have everyone follow it...problem solved
    Totally agree. I’m good with the proven slot limit but I don’t think Cland needs it.

    Razor shine, shouldn’t you be prescribing medication in lounge or otherwise talking out .....? I’m not sorry a bit to tell you I don’t need you patronizing my local lakes. Guess you know what I think of your opinion?

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    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by dstep0 View Post
    Since the regular C-Land anglers are so passionate about not breaking the size limit... Do you all feel the size limit should be pushed back to 15" for smallies much like almost every other lake in the state?

    Also, playing devils advocate...... Have you thought that KDFW is comparing catch rates of this tourney against other recorded tourney results with the 18" limit enforced to measure the affects on angler catches? Large events provide them with many creels to measure from vs smaller tourneys in which they would have to compile/combine many tourneys to get the sample size. With all existing local tourneys, there is already enough data provide them a baseline for 18". These large tourneys give them their large sample size in one weekend event. They may be using the data to measure the effectiveness of the lake's limits. With a by product being a boost to the local economy due to traveling anglers and staff, it seems like a win-win.
    dstep, I hope it stays 18 & wouldn't bother me to see largemouth the same way.

  10. Banned
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    #30
    TWRA has it figured out. 1 under 16” and one over 21”. You will never hear me compare kdfwr and Twra though. I get a chuckle out of indiana boys telling us how to manage lakes.

  11. Banned
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    #31
    Quote Originally Posted by dstep0 View Post
    Since the regular C-Land anglers are so passionate about not breaking the size limit... Do you all feel the size limit should be pushed back to 15" for smallies much like almost every other lake in the state?

    Also, playing devils advocate...... Have you thought that KDFW is comparing catch rates of this tourney against other recorded tourney results with the 18" limit enforced to measure the affects on angler catches? Large events provide them with many creels to measure from vs smaller tourneys in which they would have to compile/combine many tourneys to get the sample size. With all existing local tourneys, there is already enough data provide them a baseline for 18". These large tourneys give them their large sample size in one weekend event. They may be using the data to measure the effectiveness of the lake's limits. With a by product being a boost to the local economy due to traveling anglers and staff, it seems like a win-win.
    Your home lake Malone,Nolin,or barren? Have you ever fished Lake Cumberland (surprisingly) I have met many that have not.

    Cumberland can be broken up in 6 different lakes compared to those I mentioned. Zero way to get any realistic data from one location when all those different sources are available.

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    #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Rude196 View Post
    Your home lake Malone,Nolin,or barren? Have you ever fished Lake Cumberland (surprisingly) I have met many that have not.

    Cumberland can be broken up in 6 different lakes compared to those I mentioned. Zero way to get any realistic data from one location when all those different sources are available.
    Not sure how my home lake has any relevancy here since the discussion is around Cumberland, but sure I’ll respond...I’d say at this point in life it’s barren.
    And yes, I’ve fished Cumberland.
    KDFW manages lake resources as whole, not broken into sections no matter how vast.
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    #33
    I still don't get all the hand-wringing... It doesn't effects anyone in anyway that they let FLW/ Costa weigh in 15' smallies... I didn't read anywhere's where there was a huge fish kill of under 18' smallies, did I miss something???... It's simply the KDFW trying to showoff the lake to the bass fishing community at large, put it back on some people's radar since the repairs at the dam are completed, and help the local businesses make a few bucks in the process... And these guys aren't the best of the best of the FLW much less the world. Most are regular weekend warriors trying to test their skills and maybe win a few bucks in the process... And yes I fish the lake occasionally, family has a house in the Clifty Creek area behind State Dock... Dan

  14. RIP Evinrude 1907-2020 JR19's Avatar
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    #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan21XRS View Post
    I still don't get all the hand-wringing... It doesn't effects anyone in anyway that they let FLW/ Costa weigh in 15' smallies... I didn't read anywhere's where there was a huge fish kill of under 18' smallies, did I miss something???... It's simply the KDFW trying to showoff the lake to the bass fishing community at large, put it back on some people's radar since the repairs at the dam are completed, and help the local businesses make a few bucks in the process... And these guys aren't the best of the best of the FLW much less the world. Most are regular weekend warriors trying to test their skills and maybe win a few bucks in the process... And yes I fish the lake occasionally, family has a house in the Clifty Creek area behind State Dock... Dan
    I understand and respect your opinion but let me share a story with you...

    I have a co-work who I classify as a casual fisherman who goes about 5-10 times a year. His sole purpose for going is to catch fish to eat. He will occasionally catch bass and clean them. That is his choice and he has all the right to do so. He went to watch the weigh in of the spring 2018 FLW Tour event even though he has zero interest in tournament fishing. He just wanted to go see all the fancy boats and said it was his first time seeing a major event in person. He spoke about how he did not know they changed the size limit to 15". I explained to him this was special regulations for the tournament. His response "man I am glad you told me that because I was getting ready to go catch some fantails and fish Cumberland while the SM were biting"...there is two red flags in that statement. One, he thought the size limit had been change for everyone to 15". Two, fantail minnows are a minnow he catches in a small creek near his house. He did not know it is illegal to catch bait from one body of water and transfer it to another body of water until I told him about that law.

    So my point is this. Tournament fishermen make up a small % of the fishing public verses casual fishermen. Tournament anglers typically know laws and regulations better than the casual fishermen because they have to follow them for tournament reasons. That statement was no way meant to slur the casual fishermen. It's just that tournament fishermen have $ at stake so they have a more vested interest to know the laws. Yes it may seem like the lake is crowded with tournament boats but in the big picture throughout the year in the end there is more non tournament boats fishing than tournament boats. I know the example I explained with my coworker may be isolated but I have to wonder just how many people have went to an event at Cumberland to see the 15" SM weighed in and not realize it was special regulations for a specific event. Typically fans of tournament fishing are people who go watch weigh ins. However there is casual fishermen who will go watch major events. It's those people who don't know the logistics of the event that worry me. They go home thinking 15" is the new regulation and then they tell their buddy and go back thinking they can keep 15" SM. Those are the fish kills that people will never hear about. Again I know that is isolated but I can assure it does happen and it does have a small effect on everyone in the large scheme of things.
    Last edited by JR19; 11-06-2019 at 02:15 PM.

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    #35
    That's why they have KDFW Reg books at the counter when you purchase a license. Plus if he showed up at the ramp or bait shop with a limit of smallies and showed them off I'm sure another fisherman would've given him the heads-up that it's an 18" size limit... In the grand scheme of thing Cumberland has a lot more issues to be concerned about other than the FLW and size limits or a guy keeping a couple limits of undersized smallies... Just ride up and down the lake and look at the trash stacked up on the bank... Not that's a crime... Dan

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    #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan21XRS View Post
    That's why they have KDFW Reg books at the counter when you purchase a license. Plus if he showed up at the ramp or bait shop with a limit of smallies and showed them off I'm sure another fisherman would've given him the heads-up that it's an 18" size limit... In the grand scheme of thing Cumberland has a lot more issues to be concerned about other than the FLW and size limits or a guy keeping a couple limits of undersized smallies... Just ride up and down the lake and look at the trash stacked up on the bank... Not that's a crime... Dan

    In today's world people buy licenses online so there is no hard copy regulation book sitting close by on the counter, its an online digital version. I consider myself a technology lagger, yet I still buy my license online every year. Now I do go to a physical store and get a hard copy of the regulation book and put it in my boat because I don't want to rely on a cell phone as a source to look at the regulation book online.


    I am not done beating this dead horse yet. I have on my tinfoil hat and I am in full conspiracy theory mode. Plus I enjoy typing epic reading material... even if it means poking fun at myself


    Well I have spoke about how KDFW done it for the local economy, so now let's look at how KDFW pockets got $ put into them...The Costa event had 191 boats so that is 382 anglers. A quick count on the boater side revealed 9 people from Ky. Going down the list there were a few people from towns in neighboring states that I would say bought a KY non resident fishing license even if they were not in the Costa event. I am going to estimate out of 382 people who fish in the Costa 300 were from far enough away they bought a non resident license. Now technically they could have bought a 7 day non resident for $35. You had an open practice period, off limits period then official practice period. If you pre fished any in the open practice period the 7 day non resident would expire before the event began so for my purposes I will figure them buying the year long non resident because the number who skip the open practice would be way too hard to estimate. This might make my number high but I feel like I was close when I say 300 out of 382 bought non resident license because of this particular event so in the end my estimate should be fairly close. 300 X $55 = a good payday for KDFW $16,500...not bad for saying we will let you weigh in undersize fish.
    Last edited by JR19; 11-07-2019 at 02:37 PM.

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    #37
    Quote Originally Posted by JR19 View Post
    300 X $55 = a good payday for KDFW $16,500...not bad for saying we will let you weigh in undersize fish.


    Exactly $16,500 they don't have to go to the citizens of Kentucky for... You should be ecstatic they've come up with a way to raise revenue without fleecing Kentucky residents... The KDFW is happy, the released smallies are happily chasing shad and rooting out crawdads, the local businesses are happy... Just a few grumpy curmudgeon old fishermen are unhappy... Dan

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    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan21XRS View Post


    Exactly $16,500 they don't have to go to the citizens of Kentucky for... You should be ecstatic they've come up with a way to raise revenue without fleecing Kentucky residents... The KDFW is happy, the released smallies are happily chasing shad and rooting out crawdads, the local businesses are happy... Just a few grumpy curmudgeon old fishermen are unhappy... Dan
    I concede...game, set and match over

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    #39
    Wait just a damn minute!.

    I’m a fan of Andrew Upshaw and congrats on the win. mlflw released a video of how he won and frankly, it pissed me off! Upshaw states he keyed on smallmouth (smart) because local tournament fishermen wouldn’t. He clearly spells it out! Locals won’t go for 18” smallmouth and less pressured. mlflw anglers got a free handicap placard from kdfwr and only had to catch 15” smallmouth.

    kdfwr pissed on the locals for $16 g? Nah, piss on kdfwr and those needing special exemptions to catch fish.

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    #40
    Not you too... Dan

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