Non-ethanol gas use

[yanknbass]

Marine manufacturers say 10% is fine. I've been running outboards for 50 years. Since the corn farmers got the feds involved in adding ethanol into gasoline, I have been using E-10. I don't like the 3% drop in power and fuel economy, I don't like how it behaves in the presence of moisture. But reasonably new boats and motors have zero problems with it. And losing 3% in energy content compared to the premium price for ethanol-free makes this an easy decision. It will NOT hurt your outboard if it is new enough that the manufacturer says E10 is fine. Hunting ethanol-free gas is a waste of time. Only point to remember is that if you don't use the boat for a while (30 days) you ought to stabilize the fuel to avoid the usual ethanol issues with absorbing moisture.

Otherwise ignore the issue, it is NOT going to hurt your motor. Older motors have fuel lines and gaskets that might not be happy with ethanol. Older boats have line from the tank to the rear that might not like ethanol. The boat can be fixed by replacing the fuel lines. Ditto for the motor's fuel lines. What other parts might be problematic would depend on the age of the motor. Ethanol has been around for 20 years or so, although it became a "mandate" about 10 years ago. If you motor is less than 10 years old you ought to be good to go. Older and you need to do some research on the fuel lines used in the motor/boat, and I would ask the manufacturer of the motor if there are other potential problems ethanol might cause. Some of us have had to deal with ethanol for a much longer period of time. It was frequently used in the Summer in areas of high smog concern, since it is an oxygenator that helps reduce pollution.

For MOST of us, it is irrelevant.

I'm no expert but have been around chemicals and boats my whole life and I agree with everything you say except, the stabilizers. IMO they do nothing good and more than likely make things worse, and are expensive snake oil. Either top off or emptying tanks is better than all of them.

[th365thli]

I'm no expert but have been around chemicals and boats my whole life and I agree with everything you say except, the stabilizers. IMO they do nothing good and more than likely make things worse, and are expensive snake oil. Either top off or emptying tanks is better than all of them.

Except that the video Bassnailer posted showed proof that fuel stabilizer does in fact help. It significantly lessened corrosion caused by E10 fuels.

[PolarKraft195]

Again, I'll stick to running ethanol free gas.

[digthemup]

Ethanol *removes* water from gasoline? OOOOOOkaaaayyyyy Like a sponge *removes* water from your countertop, as long as you don't squeeze it!


Of course we all know higher octane burns cooler. But the real truth is ethanol (while making the fuel burning hotter) provides for the engine to make *more* power. Take E-10, E-15, E-30 even... each makes more power than the one before it. BUT... it also makes for MUCH WORSE fuel economy.

My son has a Subaru WRX (only the 2.0 Liter, not the 2.5) but has gotten into a few 'mods' for power, CAI, z-pipe, high flow cats, exhaust, tuning etc. Along with coilovers, wider wheels as well. With that, he's hooked up with a local tuning shop that has a 4 wheel dyno. He's now got his ECU flashed for E-85 and that darned 2 liter makes 332 HP to the ground, all 4 wheels pulling! Thing is... even E-85 is something you have to look for around here, because most stations are E-90 (minimum 10% ethanol).

He said he's also got a tune for E-70 he can flash and "It'll make it scream Dad!"
Of course my bewilderment took over at that point, because I *KNOW* you can't buy 30% ethanol fuel anywhere. Which of course I informed him of, only to be told that they ADD alcohol to the gasoline, buying straight ethanol. (So they can make more power.)
I was like... "So you're going to go to the liquor store and buy a case of Golden Grain?"

So yeah, a *little* bit of ethanol does help make more power. But let it sit for as little as a couple weeks (in NORMAL weather, much less high humidity) and that 87 octane isn't 87 any more. I've always ran REC90 in mine, but when spring comes and we start going weekly again, I'm going to put some fresh 87 in and see how she goes. (Or perhaps 91 w/ethanol.)

Dixie,
You do know that most station run 10% ethanol, NOT 90% ethanol, which is what E-90 would mean. If you ran 90% ethanol in your outboard in your high humidity, it would blow it for sure.
Your son has a dyno tuned with serious mods to a 2.0 turbocharged Boxer Subaru engine, which is a Porsche based motor, and it makes me wonder if he had alcohol injection to give the turbo air more density by cooling it, which would make sense cause you are saying that he makes more power, which alcohol injection does just that by increasing the octane when introduce in the intake and NOT MIXED with fuel. My cousin ran alcohol drag car, which is a fire just waiting to happen.

[Dubee]

Except that the video Bassnailer posted showed proof that fuel stabilizer does in fact help. It significantly lessened corrosion caused by E10 fuels.

He had a bottle of lucas in a lot of that video. No one knows exactly how that test was done. Just what he said. What if Lucas paid for those results.

[th365thli]

He had a bottle of lucas in a lot of that video. No one knows exactly how that test was done. Just what he said. What if Lucas paid for those results.

I just find that really hard to believe. Nowhere in the video was he promoting Lucas products. If anything he was a bit critical and wary of stabilizers and advocates non ethanol fuel. But if you fiercely want to believe stabilizers do nothing despite the wealth of evidence to the contrary then no one can stop you.

[digthemup]

He had a bottle of lucas in a lot of that video. No one knows exactly how that test was done. Just what he said. What if Lucas paid for those results.

Dubee,
If Lucas paid for the results, they dang didn't get their moneys worth, since he clearly said that Lucas DID NOT WORK with plenty of corrosion showing in the jar.

[Casslaw]

The Subaru can run on E85 and E70 because of the forced induction. The turbo/E85 combo lets you run a pretty incredible amount of boost because of the lower detonation of the E85 but the gas mileage will be horrible! Also, the tune is critical!

As for outboards...I like the discussion. I run normal 87 or ethanol free 89 in my little 90 Etec and have never had a difference in performance. I do however put the recommended amount of fuel stabilizer in the tank if I’m not going to use it for a week. This engine uses so little fuel it’s hard to go through a tank!

[Dubee]

Dubee,
If Lucas paid for the results, they dang didn't get their moneys worth, since he clearly said that Lucas DID NOT WORK with plenty of corrosion showing in the jar.

I'll admit i didn't watch the whole video. I can't stand youtube videos. So i watched a minute and jumped foward a couple times. I just saw a bottle of Lucas displayed a couple times. My bad for commenting with out watching the whole thing. But i personaly don't think stabilizers work and disagree with the post above saying there is a wealth of evidence they do. I've never used them and knowing what they are made of never will

[gehol]

I'll admit i didn't watch the whole video. I can't stand youtube videos. So i watched a minute and jumped foward a couple times. I just saw a bottle of Lucas displayed a couple times. My bad for commenting with out watching the whole thing. But i personaly don't think stabilizers work and disagree with the post above saying there is a wealth of evidence they do. I've never used them and knowing what they are made of never will

+1

[digthemup]

[QUOTE=Casslaw;10656353]The Subaru can run on E85 and E70 because of the forced induction. The turbo/E85 combo lets you run a pretty incredible amount of boost because of the lower detonation of the E85 but the gas mileage will be horrible! Also, the tune is critical!

2.0 turbo is forced induction requiring 91 or 93 premium octane. As for boost, I have no idea what you consider 'incredible amount', but if you don't have forged rotating internals and block, it will pop like a firecracker if overboosted. My root supercharged Roush Stage3 could only run 10 psi+- since Roush did not touch the internal other than adding the Eaton M90 supercharger, 90mm BBK TBI and MAF, which limited the 4.6 DOHC to round 405hp.
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[digthemup]

[th365thli]

I'll admit i didn't watch the whole video. I can't stand youtube videos. So i watched a minute and jumped foward a couple times. I just saw a bottle of Lucas displayed a couple times. My bad for commenting with out watching the whole thing. But i personaly don't think stabilizers work and disagree with the post above saying there is a wealth of evidence they do. I've never used them and knowing what they are made of never will

That's an ignorant statement. Literally in the video we're talking about he showed the positive effects on E10 gasoline. digthemup is not exactly correct. Lucas oil didn't seem to work on E85, but it showed significant effect on E10 gasoline. So first you ignore the video saying that it's Lucas sponsored crap (without watching it). Then you say there's not a wealth of evidence despite the proof in the video. Finally you admit that you've never used them. So you don't have empirical evidence and you don't even have anecdotal evidence.

[Dubee]

That's an ignorant statement. Literally in the video we're talking about he showed the positive effects on E10 gasoline. digthemup is not exactly correct. Lucas oil didn't seem to work on E85, but it showed significant effect on E10 gasoline. So first you ignore the video saying that it's Lucas sponsored crap (without watching it). Then you say there's not a wealth of evidence despite the proof in the video. Finally you admit that you've never used them. So you don't have empirical evidence and you don't even have anecdotal evidence.

First off, somebody's home made video isn't proof of anything. I've never added that junk to my gas because i don't need to. And guys on here all the time say they use it and it works because they don't have fuel issues. That's not exactly proof it works. Until some 3rd party lab does scientific test showing it helps. I'll call it snake oil. Anybody with a camera can make video showing what ever they want. I don't have to believe it.

[yanknbass]

Except that the video Bassnailer posted showed proof that fuel stabilizer does in fact help. It significantly lessened corrosion caused by E10 fuels.

I saw that he put everything in a jar and put a lid on it. Most if not all bassboat gas tanks have a vent, then more moisture gets in. In a jar it 'helped' with corrosion isn't good enough for me to trust.

[yanknbass]

First off, somebody's home made video isn't proof of anything. I've never added that junk to my gas because i don't need to. And guys on here all the time say they use it and it works because they don't have fuel issues. That's not exactly proof it works. Until some 3rd party lab does scientific test showing it helps. I'll call it snake oil. Anybody with a camera can make video showing what ever they want. I don't have to believe it.

Agree 100%, the amount they tell you to add is laughable, must be some potent stuff.lol When you read whats in it mostly the same stuff thats in gas and diesel as additives.

[Dixie Chicken]

The Subaru can run on E85 and E70 because of the forced induction. The turbo/E85 combo lets you run a pretty incredible amount of boost because of the lower detonation of the E85 but the gas mileage will be horrible! Also, the tune is critical!

As for outboards...I like the discussion. I run normal 87 or ethanol free 89 in my little 90 Etec and have never had a difference in performance. I do however put the recommended amount of fuel stabilizer in the tank if I’m not going to use it for a week. This engine uses so little fuel it’s hard to go through a tank!

Agreed, the lil' turbo doesn't hurt when it comes to making power with a smaller power plant.

Sad state for us though when everything out there these days is some sort of overworked, under sized engine under the hood. Wife's car is a 1.4 L with a little turbo you can hear whistling as it's idling.

The old adage that we grew up with when drag racing comes to mind "There is no re-placement for dis-placement". Which has held up fairly well over the decades. Sure, you can make amazing power with super chargers and turbos, but there are significant considerations along the way.
[QUOTE=digthemup;10656612]

The Subaru can run on E85 and E70 because of the forced induction. The turbo/E85 combo lets you run a pretty incredible amount of boost because of the lower detonation of the E85 but the gas mileage will be horrible! Also, the tune is critical!

2.0 turbo is forced induction requiring 91 or 93 premium octane. As for boost, I have no idea what you consider 'incredible amount', but if you don't have forged rotating internals and block, it will pop like a firecracker if overboosted. My root supercharged Roush Stage3 could only run 10 psi+- since Roush did not touch the internal other than adding the Eaton M90 supercharger, 90mm BBK TBI and MAF, which limited the 4.6 DOHC to round 405hp.

I hear ya' there! As it is, the boys 2 Liter didn't get that good a fuel economy going in. I was surprised to see he wasn't getting 25 MPG average highway a long time ago. Of course it does have forged internals which helps. It's amazing what it will do at this point, with just a few mods, making well over 300 HP to all 4 wheels. But I told him he's on his own when he blows it!