Newbie, Head is spinning.

[stayafloat]

I have a 21' aluminum boat in which I mainly fish lake trout in 50' to 100' trolling and jigging, and kokanee 20' to 50' trolling.

I've read way to many threads and my head is spinning a bit, but so far, I'm thinking of the following.

Echomap Ultra 12" with the GT54 and a PS30.

For my fishing, would I be better off with a GT15 and GT30 instead of the GT54? Or maybe a GT50? Any recommendations/inputs?

Thanks.

[SamMule]

I primarily fish lake trout as well. Depths usually exceeding 100'. I do go shallow for them as well this time of year, and the GT54 is great for that.
However, I think You will be much happier with the GT50 and PS30. No reason to split and go GT30/Gt15. With the GT50, I never lose bottom when on step. When searching, i can pick fish out near the bottom in up to ~270fow.

The GT54 is an excellent transducer, but the UHD side imaging will not be helpful at the depths you are looking for. The UHD down is great though. I saw fish on it last weekend at 180'. 455kHz side is nice, but just can't compare with the power of the GT50.
The ultra units are awesome. Can't go wrong there!
Love the PS30. So much fun when trolling, and is very useful for positioning precisely on a break. The extra accuracy with quickdraw is priceless IMO.
I honestly don't use it as much for jigging as I thought I would. My fish generally hang very close to the bottom, and you will not see them on the PS30. But, again, we are talking very deep water tight to the bottom. I haven't gone for kokanee with it yet.

[LWINCHESTER2]

IMO you would be better off with the GT52 or GT51 but that requires an explanation. Keep in mind when it comes to the usefullness of side imaging, I am in the minority, but I have used it since Hbird came out with it, on Hbird, Lowrance, Raymarine and Garmin. Most people rave about the structure detail of side imaging and so the better that detail the better they like it. I don't fish for structure. For me, on my lake, finding good structure and fishing there is a low percentage game. Then there is the problem of the fine tuning required to see the fish against the background of the bottom except when it is schools of fish. Add to that that I am ordinarily in water 50-150 ft deep. A scale that large makes fish very very small and more difficult to immediately identify at a glance. So I focus on the water column that does NOT have the bottom as the background. If you are in 100 FOW displaying that much to each side that is a 200 ft swath being covered and I am happy with that. Next, I want a somewhat distorted, oversize image that's easy to notice. That means just the opposite of that perfect side imaging detail. The GT51 is expensive so that may figure in. The front to back cone on the GT51 on 260 kHz is 2.0 degrees. The GT52 is 2.0 degrees on 455 kHz. 2 degrees is not optimal for structure detail but it makes the fish larger on the screen and easy to identify at a glance. In that deep water turn the contrast and brightness up---way up and if you need to see farther than the screen shows, move the boat. The GT52 is 350 watts and the GT51 is 500 watts on SideVu. If you have very deep water and really want to reach out there the GT51 is the clear choice, but if you are more likely to set the side range to around 150 ft to each side the GT52 will do just fine.

PS. You do know you have a 10 degree setting on the PS30 for those bottom hugging fish? If you want to see closer than that you'll have to use LiveScope.

[fishin couillon]

Your head will really start spinning now....

[SamMule]

PS. You do know you have a 10 degree setting on the PS30 for those bottom hugging fish? If you want to see closer than that you'll have to use LiveScope.

Yes. That's what I usually run my PS30 on. It is better than the 20 and 40, but still not as good as the traditional 2d when they are tight to the bottom.

I run my GT50 and GT54 port and starboard. Use strength of return to determine which side they are on. Works pretty slick really. If they are off of the bottom much though, they will show up on the PS30.

Maybe I can get some screenshots this weekend.

I suppose the question is: are you looking for suspended fish? Or fish in the bottom?
Honestly, I don't think you can go wrong either way.

[Astrochris]

I had the same issue with seeing Lakers hugging the bottom until I created a screen including 80% PS30 and 20% 2D. It has worked out great for seeing those bottom hugging Lake Trouts. I run GT15 and fish are easily seen close to the bottom using this transducer.

Cheers!!
C//

[stayafloat]

Your head will really start spinning now....

You are correct!

[stayafloat]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. Bear with me, as my sonar ignorance will probably have me asking the wrong question quite often.

I am convinced I want the PS30, but I'm still very unsure about which transducer I want/need.

If my main goal is to see fish hugging the bottom at 60'-100' feet while still getting good returns on suspended fish, what will do that the best? 2D, down view, or side view?

Dowes CHIRP 2D reduce target masking? Does down view have the same issue as 2D with target masking?

LWinchester2 - I think I understand your description of using the GT52 sideview to see fish on the bottom, but I guess my question is, is this better or more effective than using a good 2d or down view?

SamMule - Do you rely on 2d more than down view to find bottom hugging lakers?

Astrochris - Do you have a picture of this so I can see what it looks like?

[LWINCHESTER2]

If my main goal is to see fish hugging the bottom at 60'-100' feet while still getting good returns on suspended fish, what will do that the best? 2D, down view, or side view?

Dowes CHIRP 2D reduce target masking? Does down view have the same issue as 2D with target masking?

LWinchester2 - I think I understand your description of using the GT52 sideview to see fish on the bottom, but I guess my question is, is this better or more effective than using a good 2d or down view?

Generally fish that on sonar look to be on the bottom, are not. You can check this by dropping a lure you can see to the bottom and measuring how far you have to lift it to see it on the sonar. That's your dead spot. The dead spot will be smaller on a perfectly level bottom. So far I have not seen any sonar that will allow me to distinguish between a rock and a fish. I have done experiments placing both on a level bottom and could see both using Hbird, Lowrance and Garmin. I did not find a fine tuning that would allow me to determine which was which. On level or near level terrain transducer cones are equal. One is not better than another. In my situation that is almost never the situation. I will nearly always have some type of obstruction, irregularity or slope. That means that the transducer with the smallest cone will do the best job "seeing" the fish. That would be LiveScope, Vexilar Edge3 400 kHz and Garmin GT10, in that order. The differences between these three is very small but detectable. Down imaging (ClearVu) does exceptionally well but only in limited situations. If you are moving deep to shallow or shallow to deep and perfectly following the crest of a ridge and the fish are on that crest it will show some the others may miss. But unless you are on flat terrain the dead area from the wide part of the cone will be huge. There is no contest as to what transducer or technology is the best and most productive. That is the LVS32. You have a very tight cone and you can see a huge area, all at the same time. I'm still trying to find just where the maximum effectiveness is. When I see a fish with it, on or near bottom 100 ft deep and 50 ft away I really don't have anything else to compare it too. Are there 2 or 3 fish and it's just showing 1? I don't know. Even though I see fish deeper than 100ft with it, I am not confident that if it is not showing fish 120 ft deep, that no fish are there. Chirp helps, but a tight cone is more important. A 10 degree non-chirp will see closer to the bottom than the best 20 degree chirp transducer. SideVu is effective because it is pointed different than 2d or ClearVu. I wouldn't say better. It can show you fish that the 2d and ClearVu can't see. I use it with the PS30 because sometimes what appears as a school of bait on PS30 is actually a school of fish to catch. The SideVu has better discrimination. Same thing with ClearVu. It has better discrimination than 2d.

[stayafloat]

Thanks for taking the time for that write up.

So with 2d, down view, or side view, the "bottom" is the depth that is hit first in the "cone", whether it is the top of a boulder or the highest point of a slope?

When you say you have seen fish 100' deep and 50' away with the LVS32, is this using it in the "down" mode? If it will give good results down to 100' deep, it seems that this might be a better option for me than the PS30?

[LWINCHESTER2]

So with 2d, down view, or side view, the "bottom" is the depth that is hit first in the "cone", whether it is the top of a boulder or the highest point of a slope?

Right.

When you say you have seen fish 100' deep and 50' away with the LVS32, is this using it in the "down" mode?

It works on both Down and Forward mode. In Down mode, the deeper the water the wider the coverage.

If it will give good results down to 100' deep, it seems that this might be a better option for me than the PS30?

That's a very subjective thing and varies a lot from one fisherman to another on how you use this stuff. The PS30 is a transom mount transducer. I use it mostly as a search tool to determine where to fish. When I stop to try and catch them, I deploy the TM and use the LVS32 and 2d to target them. I still have the PS30 running and if I see fish there I have to cast to the back or one side of the back of the boat or reposition the boat.

Something else you might keep in mind. The closer the fish are to the bottom, the harder it is to get them to cooperate.

[stayafloat]

With the LVS32 having both a "forward" and "down" mode, I could switch up how I'm using it depending on what type of fishing I'm doing though?

If I planned on trolling or jigging one day, I could transom mount it and use it in the "down" mode, and if I was casting another day I could, I could mount it on the trolling motor and use "forward" mode? If so, it seems like it might be more versatile if I can only purchase one Panoptix transducer to start with?

[stayafloat]

Something else you might keep in mind. The closer the fish are to the bottom, the harder it is to get them to cooperate.

That's when I like to drag a big line of "cowbells" right through them and hope it pisses them off enough to bite.

[LWINCHESTER2]

If I planned on trolling or jigging one day, I could transom mount it and use it in the "down" mode, and if I was casting another day I could, I could mount it on the trolling motor and use "forward" mode? If so, it seems like it might be more versatile if I can only purchase one Panoptix transducer to start with?

I wouldn't do that. I don't think anybody switches out transducers any more than I do. It gets old. In that situation I think I would go for the stick mount. For trolling, expecially deep I would get a significant edge to the PS30. When you extend the range on the LVS32 the targets get very small and it's easy to miss them. At ranges of 100 ft you'll need a 12 inch screen. and run it full screen. You don't have to do that with the PS30. A 9 inch screen works well.

[SamMule]

I use both 2d and down when searching for Lakers close to the bottom. As Lwinchester stated. If they are on the bottom, you won't see them.
However, often times when you run over a pod of fish on the bottom, you will find one or two that suspend enough to pick out on your sonar. If you see one, there is probably more!
I use both 2d and downvu while searching. Running perpendicular to any ledge or drop-off you are searching can help. On steep rock ledges, this is where downvu really shines. It can pick up fish that are hidden by the "feathering" you get from a wide 2d cone.

If your ecosystem has mysis shrimp, you will have Lakers on the bottom that eat all day. You may not be able to pick em up trolling, because they are focused on the benthic shrimp. Drag some jugs through the mud. They'll bite!

[stayafloat]

I use both 2d and down when searching for Lakers close to the bottom. As Lwinchester stated. If they are on the bottom, you won't see them.
However, often times when you run over a pod of fish on the bottom, you will find one or two that suspend enough to pick out on your sonar. If you see one, there is probably more!
I use both 2d and downvu while searching. Running perpendicular to any ledge or drop-off you are searching can help. On steep rock ledges, this is where downvu really shines. It can pick up fish that are hidden by the "feathering" you get from a wide 2d cone.

If your ecosystem has mysis shrimp, you will have Lakers on the bottom that eat all day. You may not be able to pick em up trolling, because they are focused on the benthic shrimp. Drag some jugs through the mud. They'll bite!

Thanks for your input.

For just 2D is the GT50 or GT54 better in your view? Likewise for just downview, is the GT50 or GT54 better?

[SamMule]

As far as specs go, the GT54 2d should be better. But, I honestly don't see much of a difference when running them side by side.

For downvu, I really like the clarity of the GT54 up to ~150' depending on water clarity. However, I think fish are easier to see with the GT50.

If I had to pick between the GT50 and GT54, I would pick the GT50. But, I typically fish much deeper than you, so I need a lot more range.
To make a generalization...
For better detail, go with the GT54.
For better range, go with the GT50.
Or get two MFDs and run both.
They are both great transducers. You can't go wrong either way.

[Astrochris]

Astrochris - Do you have a picture of this so I can see what it looks like?

Was out yesterday jigging for walleye, the water was super dirty after a major storm went through last Thursday and Friday.
this is the screen I use when jigging for Lakers, The left side shows the GT 15, I sometimes use the zoom function on the GT 15 to see closer to the bottom.
BTW, The water was so dirty that my PS30 was almost useless, in some eras of the river I wasn’t able to see my jig down 30 feet.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mTj...w?usp=drivesdk