We have heated floors in our lower level. The water is heated by a 40 gallon hot water heater. There is a pump that pumps the water up from the heater through copper pipes and down into 4 clear plastic tubes that run through the concrete. There is a psi gauge before the pump that is reading zero. Is this just a air bubble blockage, or is it the pump? How can I tell what the problem is? The copper pipes are warm on both the inlet and outlet before the pump. Thanks
Don’t know much about those systems but can you tell if the pump is running ? I would imagine the return pipe should get warm in a few minutes if the pump is working and it’s circulating
what he said^^^^^^^^^^^^Originally Posted by JerryT
could also just be the guage..
so this gauge is reading pressure BEFORE the pump?
if it is before then i imagine if the pump is running then the psi would be very low or none
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Also I’m guessing that system has an expansion tank ?
It does have an expansion tank. The psi gauge is between the heater and the expansion tank. The pipes are cold after the pump. The gauge is reading zero. It is a closed recirculating system.
Lots of questions but lets start with:
Fill line to heater is open?
Connected to city water supply or well?
How old is the expansion tank?
First off, put some more water in that system. If the gauge works run it up to 10 psi or so. Then start the pump again. Check for leaks! The pump is probly airbound. Running it that way will ruin the pump seal if it hasn't already. Hopefully you can get water flow from the pump and find your leak without too much trouble.
If its a closed loop system you should have an "airscoop" that removes air from the line. You might have just lost air pressure over the summer in your expansion tank. Put some air in it until your water pressure gauge reads 10-12 PSI. Chances are the air stem core is bad. After you get the system pressurized and bled it will circulate.
^This! Closed loop that looses water will do this. 1st, know that the gauge is correct. 2nd, the system could be air locked. Normally a working system doesn't air lock if set up correctly with air seperator and vent. Add water to the system at the heater until you have about 12 to 15 psi on the gauge with the pump running. If adding water corrects the system you've lost water.
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Wouldnt it be easier to pressurize the air bladder first in a closed loop before trying to add water to a system that might already be full ?
This is provided the tank is on the floor it is heating.
Tank top(72") +floor thickness(12") =84"/12"=7'
7'/2.3=3.04' (2.3 psi per vertical ft of height)
Set the system to 5psi
I have never seen any water on the floor, or carpet down there. There are two faucets in-line before the round air tank, plus a shut off valve between them. Both the hot and cold pipes coming out of the hot water heater are warm. There is a red air cap on the top of the air bladder and a blue one on the bottom. I’m not sure where to add water to the hot water heater. I don’t want to blow this thing up.
The system was installed in 2006 when our home was built. I think it will be safer if I just call the plumbing company that installed it.
I turned the thermostat on the wall up to 90* and the hot water heater doesn’t kick in.
A lot of your small expansion tanks don't have a way to add air. Some are bladderless also, they just have an air cushion. Your system should have standing pressure and when running your pump should have inlet pressure as stated earlier.
Your Calculation of 3 psi for 7’ of elevation is correct.
However, conversion factor is 2.3 vertical ft/psi.
Takes 2.3 feet of vertical head pressure to equal 1 psi
Not, 2.3 psi per vertical ft.
Yep.
Pays to proof read.
A case of the fingers and the brain not playing nice together.
Thanks for the correction.
I had a repairman come out this morning. He hooked a hose from the house water heater to the water heater for the in-floor heat. He added water until the relief valve blew at 30 psi. The gauge remained at zero. He then checked the pump and told me that was shot from running dry and over heating. The system has three zones of Pex clear tubing running into the floor and back. He told me that one of them has a leak which reduces the water psi, which in turn burns out the pump. Each zone pipe has a shut off valve on it. He wants to replace the psi gauge, the pump and then find out which zone is leaking and shut that one down, leaving me with two working. He said when it was installed they probably spliced the tubing and that is where it is leaking. Do installers actually splice this tubing? We have 1100 square feet of our basement finished and heated.
I have the original installing company from 2006 coming tomorrow for a second opinion. Does the first guy sound like his opinion is correct? I’m not sure what to do. I would really appreciate any professional opinions
I can get.
Sounds like your repair guy is on the right track. The splice theory is just that, a theory. Typically you don't spliced in-floor runs as you are usually limited to 200' per loop. Anything is possibe tho.
Sounds like the repairman you had out is on the right track. If the pump was running dry for any significant amount if time it is most likely burned out. And with labor costs it is likely cheaper to replace the entire pump vs. rebuilding the old one. I'd compare that opinion to the one the installer gives you, and see if there are any notable differences. My guess would be the original installer has dealt with this same issue multiple times. As for splicing, I would think they do splice tubing on long runs as a last resort, but not as a rule. And with your system being zoned the way it is there little likelihood they had to splice under the floor. If you have a leak under the floor you should be seeing a damp spot on your floor.
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I have never seen, or felt a damp spot. Our lower level is half carpet and half tile. I don’t know how a person can find the zone that has the leak. He said it takes a lot of time, which to me equates to a lot of dollars. We have natural gas heat down there too, but it is in the ceiling. But, here in Wisconsin those warm floors feel really good in the winter.
May be a warranty that covers it. I see warranties ranging from 20 years to Lifetime on a great deal of radiant heat systems. Specifically poly tubing systems. Maybe you'll get lucky. What's the installer's name, or brand name of the system they installed?
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