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  1. #1
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    Honda lower unit mods

    Has anyone done or considered lower unit mods to the 2/1 lower. A nose cone like the saber lower do decrease drag or is it a worthless idea

  2. Member
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    #2
    I'm sure the nose cone would help some, but in my opinion what the Honda really needs is 1.75:1 gears like most outboards have. I have no idea why 2.0:1 it would only make sense for something like a tow boat. If Honda wanted to offer a 2.0:1 gear box as a option that would make sense but I have no idea why it is the standard and only gear box on new 225 and 250's.. Gas mileage and top end speed would both dramatically increase if they were 1.75:1.

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    #3
    I'm beginning to wonder if the honda makes enough torque to run higher gears. Guys with 2 stroke pro xs engines are turning steeper pitch props than us to the same rpms with 1.75 and 1.62 gears. If a Honda made comparable torque to the black engines, we should be able to spin 27 and 28 pitch props to our red line with our 2.0 gear ratio shouldn't we? What would happen if we bolted on a 28 tempest plus and tried to turn it to 5800 rpms where our peak horsepower is? If it would come out of the hole and run to 5800 rpm and keep say 7% slip we'd be running 71 mph. A 4 stroke should have more torque than a 2 stroke right? If so why are we lagging behind in speed?

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    #4
    Honda makes torque it's not transmitted to the prop due to 2.0 gear ratio ; theoretical speed is pitch x rpm divided by 1056 x gear ratio so a bigger number in gear ratio gives a smaller speed number. For instance 24 x6000 divided by 2 x1056 equals 68; if you change to 1.75 you get 77; this doesn't take slip into account but simple math can give you the picture of why 2.o : 1 is not a high speed gear ratio; doesn't strain lower unit as much and limits ability to get higher speeds.

  5. Member
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Charger396 View Post
    I'm beginning to wonder if the honda makes enough torque to run higher gears. Guys with 2 stroke pro xs engines are turning steeper pitch props than us to the same rpms with 1.75 and 1.62 gears. If a Honda made comparable torque to the black engines, we should be able to spin 27 and 28 pitch props to our red line with our 2.0 gear ratio shouldn't we? What would happen if we bolted on a 28 tempest plus and tried to turn it to 5800 rpms where our peak horsepower is? If it would come out of the hole and run to 5800 rpm and keep say 7% slip we'd be running 71 mph. A 4 stroke should have more torque than a 2 stroke right? If so why are we lagging behind in speed?
    What you say is true the Honda does have less torque that is why they always feel when you run them like they need two props one to come out of the hole and another for top end. I do feel however they have enough ass to say turn a small 24 pitch prop to 5800 to 5850 rpm's and get you to 70mph with 1.75:1 gears and still jump out of the hole.

    Right now with a massively heavy tournament load in hot 90deg plus weather i'm still turning a 25 with lots of cup at no less then 6200 and most days 6300 plus. Light i'm on the limiter.

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    #6
    I'm hoping mine just hasn't loosened up yet. I read through some threads saying it took around 40 hours for the Honda's to loosen up and run. I'm only 10 hours or so max out of the crate and probably actually around half that. Maybe mine will get faster as it breaks in. I think honda had something going their way before the sho and pro xs 4 strokes came out but now they're lagging way behind those 2 "performance" 4 strokes

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    #7
    And 70 has always been the magic number when bass guys talk speed but why are we with our Honda's content with 70. Sho and pro xs 4 strokes of the same horsepower are pushing boats just like ours faster than our Honda's with almost all the same benefits of 4 stroke tech. Maybe fuel consumption is not quite as good as our Honda's but realistically, we're bass fisherman with bass boats. We've been burning the he'll out of gas for the sake of speed for a long time so if I could lose a little fuel mileage and gain that 5-17 mph in my case, I definitely would. I'm stuck with my honda now and it's fine so far but it's definitely not what I read it would be on forums and not even close to what I hoped it would be

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    #8
    I just checked my prop to pad and I'm at 1/4 inch below the pad. My 25 tempest plus ran 6050 rpms at a max of 67 mph. Mathematically there's no way my boat will ever run faster than 71 or maybe 72 miles an hour and that's holding 6-7% slip. My slip won't get any better on this hull I don't think. And this is a quarter inch below the pad with a brand new engine and I can only turn the 25 tempest 6050 rpms unless I Jack it up to slip more. That's a weak engine.

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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Charger396 View Post
    I just checked my prop to pad and I'm at 1/4 inch below the pad. My 25 tempest plus ran 6050 rpms at a max of 67 mph. Mathematically there's no way my boat will ever run faster than 71 or maybe 72 miles an hour and that's holding 6-7% slip. My slip won't get any better on this hull I don't think. And this is a quarter inch below the pad with a brand new engine and I can only turn the 25 tempest 6050 rpms unless I Jack it up to slip more. That's a weak engine.
    All I can say is that I have now owned my Honda BF250 for 2 full seasons and 125 hours, it's by far is the outboard that I like best over all others I have owned. I have owned several 250 Mercury outboards including EFI pro XB, optimax and pro xs 2stroke. In also have owned a Yamaha 250 SHO. All the outboards I mentioned NEVER would push any of my boats over 72mph with a true FULL LOAD.

    The Honda is slower but only by at most 4mph. I will gladly give up 4 mph to make it back to every weigh in.

    The Honda is the worst of them all on fuel consumption on tournament day"WOT", but only on tournament day because during practice if you run it in "lean mode" you burn about 9 gph and run around at 45 mph. No other outboard that I have owned would burn less then 11 gph at 45mph!! Keep in mind with 2 stroke outboards like the Evinrude you have to buy oil and with the Yamaha SHO you have to buy 89 gas so the Honda by far is the lowest cost to run.

    Reliability hands down goes to Honda, as far as my Mercury 250 outboards I never had any I repeat any of them make it to 100 hours with out a MAJOR problem like blown powerhead or broken drive shafts. As far as the new V8 Mercury be glad you don't own that one the list of recalls on the outboard is very long. Look up the recalls on the V8 Mercury you will cringe some are blowing oil out the power head off the line.

    You many not feel the way I do but I will any day of the week give up 4mph to have a absolutely silent outboard, that runs on regular 87 octane gas, requires no 2 cycle oil and makes it back to the weigh in every time.

    Now with all that said I still feel a 1.75:1 gear box would increase the mpg even more and also add to top end Speed, but for now I'm very happy with my Honda.

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    #10
    I just put my 25 tempest on my buddies 2018 z19 with 200 pro xs 4 stroke, 2 power poles, 36 volt troller, 30 rods, a tackle shop worth of tackle, me at 205, him at 170, and a half a tank of fuel. It ran 70.8 miles per hour at 6100 rpm. A 200 with 1.85 lower unit. His boat is heavier than mine as well. My 225 honda with 2.0 gears won't spin the same exact prop any harder even with slightly lower gears on a much lighter boat. What is the problem?

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    #11
    I own the honda. It's mine. Trust me I try to find positive things to say about it and keep hope alive to convince myself I don't have buyers remorse....

  12. Member
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    #12
    Send the 25 Tempest to lake Lanier prop have him work it, You will be able to run it 1.5 below pad at 6200 just like me and be running 68 mph with a full load only two mph less then your friend with the Mercury.

    Trust me he is that good. I just ran 2 weeks ago my 21 foot Phoenix with a Honda BF250 me at 200lb, co angler about the same. Now my full load is in most cases 200 lbs more then most because when I say full I also include a spare trolling motor, spare prop, a tool box not a few tools, 21lbs of ICE, 4 group 29 lead wet cells, full anchor plus two 200 guys and full of tackle and rods. Even with this load the prop gives sooo much lift and soooo little slip I spin that 25 to 6200 rpms at 1 inch below pad at 68mph all day long.

  13. Charger Boats Moderator TOUCH OF CLASS's Avatar
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    #13
    Did you put the rev 4 on the nitro

    The 396 pro xs ran 75-76 all day long with a 27 tempest.25 tempest it would barely hit 71

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    #14
    I plan to have both my tempest and my rev 4 worked by the guys you recommend but I'm afraid to do it until I feel like my engine is as loose as it will get. And I see what it's going to pick up in cooler denser air of fall and winter. I don't want to be bouncing on the limiter. Regardless of worked props, gear ratio, or setup these Honda's will never run with black motors because powerhead to powerhead they just aren't as strong. And it stands to reason that if the others detuned their engines to the power level of a Honda they would probably be more reliable than they are. And being 2 mph away from my merc buddy with 25 less horsepower and probably 400 pounds heavier weight isn't really anything great

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    #15
    I put the tempest on the nitro. I can't spin my 25 over 6050 so I doubt I'd pick up speed with a 27 but I definitely plan to try

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    #16
    The 396 pro xs at 77 is 10 mph faster than me. It hurts my feelings. Just hurtful. Do I need more than 8 inches of setback or what?

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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Charger396 View Post
    The 396 pro xs at 77 is 10 mph faster than me. It hurts my feelings. Just hurtful. Do I need more than 8 inches of setback or what?
    8 should be fine if you go too far back you might gain a hair on top but you will loose hole shot. If your plate is a hydro jack with stock props try running them high to get out of hole then lower it when on plane in most cases your speed will go up. This is due to the slip in stock props.

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    #18
    Both my props hold around 7% slip

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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Charger396 View Post
    Both my props hold around 7% slip
    Wow very good if you can run that high and only slip 7% that s great. Make sure you use a good digital tac when you give prop shop you numbers. I run 2 digital tac's one is the Honda NMEA gauge and the other I tie into my helix 12. The Helix tac is awesome it shows exact rpm the Honda shows every 50.

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    #20
    I've seen my boat touch 6400 and the limiter hit. It may be off some but not too bad

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