Need help setting up sonar for the best 2D with latest software

[woppercatcher]

I have a Helix 12 Chirp DI G2N at my bow and now that I have updated the software to the latest version the 2D sonar is all messed up. I would like to know a few things.

1. I don't care about the DI
2. I have a 360 also connected to this unit
3. I want to use the 2D sonar along with the 360 so for the most part I only use two views. The sonar/360 view and the sonar/map view
4. I want to see fish and my line when vertical fishing in the sonar view, which I was able to do before.
5. In the past I used Max mode, 2D Chirp at High (175-225) and I could see my line all the way down to say 40ft or more and fish suspended easily.

I've tried a bunch of different settings and so far haven't been able to replicate what I had before updating the software

1. Which transducer do I select out of the multiple options, knowing I don't care about the DI?
2. Clear or Max mode? With the filter set to 1 it seems I have to turn up the sensitivity to see anything, if I turn off the filter I have to turn the sensitivity down to 2 or 3 but I still don't see my line.
3. What surface clutter setting, I used to leave at 5?
4. What filter setting? I used to have filter off but now if I turn the filter off the 360 starts getting the pin wheel clutter bad
5. How do I stop the pin wheel/dots clutter on the 360?

[Wayne P.]

1. Default is 200/455 kHz. You can change the transducer to a 83/200 kHz, set the Connected Transducer to HB 83/200 kHz, and have better 2D and more coverage. XTM 9 20 T.
2. I have always just used CLEAR and the rest Default settings, but some prefer to tweak their 2D settings.
3. Default
4. Default
5. Since normal operation of that unit uses 455 kHz for 2D sonar, if you stop using 455 kHz for 2D sonar, you won't get cross-talk with the 360 that uses 455 kHz. Using 83/200 kHz will fix that.

[Wayne P.]

Another thing, exactly what transducer are you using?

[woppercatcher]

Another thing, exactly what transducer are you using?

I believe XNT 9 DI T or the redesigned model

[Wayne P.]

I believe XNT 9 DI T or the redesigned model

That is the transom transducer that comes with the unit and does 200/455 kHz 2D and 455/800 kHz Down Imaging. Your unit uses 455 kHz for the depth readout regardless of which frequency you choose to view. Its setting is DI 200/455 kHz. Spec coverage is 25/16 degrees.

The XTM 9 WIDE DI 20 T is the best choice for the trolling motor with a Connected Transducer setting of DI 83/200 kHz. Spec coverage is 60/20 degrees.

[woppercatcher]

That is the transom transducer that comes with the unit and does 200/455 kHz 2D and 455/800 kHz Down Imaging. Your unit uses 455 kHz for the depth readout regardless of which frequency you choose to view. Its setting is DI 200/455 kHz. Spec coverage is 25/16 degrees.

The XTM 9 WIDE DI 20 T is the best choice for the trolling motor with a Connected Transducer setting of DI 83/200 kHz. Spec coverage is 60/20 degrees.

Great, thanks!

[jasonG]

I’ll go a different route id get rid of the di transducer altogether and just add the dual spectrum 2d transducer. That’s what I just did on my 12 di. I never been a fan of using di and going this route I have been very happy.

360 interference will also be present if your console graphs are set at 455.

[woppercatcher]

I’ll go a different route id get rid of the di transducer altogether and just add the dual spectrum 2d transducer. That’s what I just did on my 12 di. I never been a fan of using di and going this route I have been very happy.

360 interference will also be present if your console graphs are set at 455.

If I went that route it would be this transducer? XTM 9 HW T - HELIX Dual Spectrum CHIRP w/ Temp Trolling Motor Transducer

[jasonG]

Yes.

If I went that route it would be this transducer? XTM 9 HW T - HELIX Dual Spectrum CHIRP w/ Temp Trolling Motor Transducer

[woppercatcher]

Okay, my patience and wallet are running out! A few weeks ago I could be at the front of my boat and see fish in the water column, pick out fish in brush, trees and on the bottom. I could see my line going down the water column and watch fish take the bait. Now I'm lucky to see the bottom at all! I've replaced transducers, moved cables until my back has given out, even replaced the whole unit and things are only getting worse. There has to be someone out there that knows what the heck is going on with at least the settings on these units. Again, on my old Helix 12 Chirp SI/DI model which initially was at the software level before v.1.9.1 level I always ran the 2D in Max mode, chirp on, using high chirp(175-225), sensitivity at 2, noise filter off, surface clutter at 5 things were perfect. Then when the GD interference started I updated both Helix G1 units to V.1.9 and the sonar settings went haywire! With the above settings I actually had to raise the sensitivity to say 7-8 and lower the surface clutter to 1 to kind of see fish in the water column and my line. Now I've replaced that Helix 12 at the bow with a Helix 12 Chirp DI G2N unit. For now using the OOTB transducer and updated the software to v.2.110 it's even worse. The interference is really bad and the sonar settings are all over the map. I have the selected transducer at HB 83/200, chip high (175-225). For the 2D for max mode I have to turn the noise filter to 2 the sensitivity to at least 15 and surface clutter at 10 in order to remotely see anything in the water column and I can't see my line. There is very little to no target separation as well. If I return to "clear" mode I have to turn up the sensitivity to almost 20 to see anything. If I turn the noise filter to 1 in either mode when I press the trolling motor the screen is filled with interference. If I turn off chirp and go to 200khz same thing but even less bottom coverage. The other weird thing which might be normal is if I'm using both the 360/Sonar view the sonar refresh rate slows down, go back to sonar/map view and the refresh rate speeds up again.

If I can't see fish in the water column, the bottom and have no target separation the unit is useless to me!

On the Helix 12 I was using at the bow and now at the console the sonar settings after the update are weird as well, although that unit is working like a charm. In "max" mode you have to turn up the sensitivity and lower the surface clutter and in "clear" mode in 83khz you have to lower the sensitivity and raise the surface clutter. The side imaging is working as expected though.

[jasonG]

If you have a 12di and are using the di transducer you don’t have the proper transducer selected. Not sure if that will help your issue but it’s a start

[Wayne P.]

Okay, my patience and wallet are running out! A few weeks ago I could be at the front of my boat and see fish in the water column, pick out fish in brush, trees and on the bottom. I could see my line going down the water column and watch fish take the bait. Now I'm lucky to see the bottom at all! I've replaced transducers, moved cables until my back has given out, even replaced the whole unit and things are only getting worse. There has to be someone out there that knows what the heck is going on with at least the settings on these units. Again, on my old Helix 12 Chirp SI/DI model which initially was at the software level before v.1.9.1 level I always ran the 2D in Max mode, chirp on, using high chirp(175-225), sensitivity at 2, noise filter off, surface clutter at 5 things were perfect. Then when the GD interference started I updated both Helix G1 units to V.1.9 and the sonar settings went haywire! With the above settings I actually had to raise the sensitivity to say 7-8 and lower the surface clutter to 1 to kind of see fish in the water column and my line. Now I've replaced that Helix 12 at the bow with a Helix 12 Chirp DI G2N unit. For now using the OOTB transducer and updated the software to v.2.110 it's even worse. The interference is really bad and the sonar settings are all over the map. I have the selected transducer at HB 83/200, chip high (175-225). For the 2D for max mode I have to turn the noise filter to 2 the sensitivity to at least 15 and surface clutter at 10 in order to remotely see anything in the water column and I can't see my line. There is very little to no target separation as well. If I return to "clear" mode I have to turn up the sensitivity to almost 20 to see anything. If I turn the noise filter to 1 in either mode when I press the trolling motor the screen is filled with interference. If I turn off chirp and go to 200khz same thing but even less bottom coverage. The other weird thing which might be normal is if I'm using both the 360/Sonar view the sonar refresh rate slows down, go back to sonar/map view and the refresh rate speeds up again.

If I can't see fish in the water column, the bottom and have no target separation the unit is useless to me!

On the Helix 12 I was using at the bow and now at the console the sonar settings after the update are weird as well, although that unit is working like a charm. In "max" mode you have to turn up the sensitivity and lower the surface clutter and in "clear" mode in 83khz you have to lower the sensitivity and raise the surface clutter. The side imaging is working as expected though.

If you are using the transom DI transducer that came with the unit and attached it to the bottom of the trolling motor and have RFI issues, that means you are using the wrong transducer for the application. There are two trolling motor DI puck versions for the non-MEGA DI G2N models and both have extra internal shielding to help with RFI from the trolling motor.
The XTM 9 DI 25 T is the trolling motor puck that matches the default 2D for your unit---200/455 kHz. Using that or the transom transducer, you do not change the Connected Transducer setting from the Default setting which is DI 200/455 kHz.
The XTM 9 WIDE DI 20 T is the trolling motor puck version that has a 83/200 kHz 2D piezo. To use that one, you change the Connected Transducer setting to DI 83/200 kHz.

[pfisher]

Wopper you aren't the only one. My sonar on Helix and Solix isn't what it was before the updates. My Solix di also seems to have taken a step back.

My 2d is now only getting blobs instead of arches and it was working fine before the updates.

[woppercatcher]

If you are using the transom DI transducer that came with the unit and attached it to the bottom of the trolling motor and have RFI issues, that means you are using the wrong transducer for the application. There are two trolling motor DI puck versions for the non-MEGA DI G2N models and both have extra internal shielding to help with RFI from the trolling motor.
The XTM 9 DI 25 T is the trolling motor puck that matches the default 2D for your unit---200/455 kHz. Using that or the transom transducer, you do not change the Connected Transducer setting from the Default setting which is DI 200/455 kHz.
The XTM 9 WIDE DI 20 T is the trolling motor puck version that has a 83/200 kHz 2D piezo. To use that one, you change the Connected Transducer setting to DI 83/200 kHz.

Thanks. I bought the unit from BBG Marine and in the description it says the transducer is XNT 9 DI T. I would check the Humminbird site but like everything else there the website is messed up right now. The transducer is tear drop shaped if that helps. So for now I have ordered the XTM 9 HW T - HELIX Dual Spectrum CHIRP w/ Temp Trolling Motor Transducer and plan on using that one, so which setting do I set at the unit? In the meantime I'm going to just hook the US2 transducer to the unit and see how that works, so again which setting at the unit?

I really appreciate the help from you Wayne and others on this site and I don't mean to take my frustration out on anyone here. However, I'm just a simple consumer who expects when they order a product that I don't need to know which transducer to use or what settings to make. And I really don't expect to have to setup all the settings completely different each time you put on a software update! We are told to keep the units up to date but so far after my last three updates I've had to send one unit to HB twice and the last two have completely changed the way the sonar works and the settings I have to make, that is total BS. And when you call support you expect to have someone with some kind of knowledge to be able to help you not just read from a script.

Thanks again.

[Wayne P.]

Thanks. I bought the unit from BBG Marine and in the description it says the transducer is XNT 9 DI T. I would check the Humminbird site but like everything else there the website is messed up right now. The transducer is tear drop shaped if that helps. So for now I have ordered the XTM 9 HW T - HELIX Dual Spectrum CHIRP w/ Temp Trolling Motor Transducer and plan on using that one, so which setting do I set at the unit? In the meantime I'm going to just hook the US2 transducer to the unit and see how that works, so again which setting at the unit?

Thanks

The XNT 9 DI T is the transom transducer that comes in the box with every DI Humminbird number series and Helix that is older than a G3N except one. There are two G2N Helix 12 CHIRP DI units. One of them is the one you have and the other is the MEGA DI model.
Yes the one you have is teardrop shape since it is designed for transom use, The MEGA DI transom transducer is the same shape but a little larger. Neither is suitable for attachment to a trolling motor.



As stated above, your unit's default 2D frequency is 200/455 kHz and that is what the XNT 9 DI T is for. The connected transducer setting is DI 200/455 kHz and that is the Default setting. No matter what you change it to, it will be that setting again when you do a software update or Restore Defaults.

The US2 transducer is a 83/200 kHz 2D transducer ONLY. It does not do any Imaging if any kind. If you want to use that, the setting for it is Generic 83/200 kHz.

As far as using the XTM 9 HW T, your unit would need software that gives it the HW CHIRP frequency and it is a 2D transducer ONLY. It does not do any Imaging of any kind. IF you have that choice, it is called High Wide CHIRP.
The MEGA DI units have High Wide CHIRP, don't know if the unit you have has it or can have it.

[Wayne P.]

Update, I checked the Minnkota Compatibility list and yes you can use the XTM 9 HW T transducer with current software.

[woppercatcher]

Update, I checked the Minnkota Compatibility list and yes you can use the XTM 9 HW T transducer with current software.

Thanks again!

[woppercatcher]

I connected my US2 transducer directly to my Helix 12 chirp di g2n and went to the lake. First try was selecting the HB 83/200 transducer and high chirp. Messed with that for a while in “clear” and “max” different sensitivities, noise filter and surface clutter settings and couldn’t get the sonar to work like I want. I disabled chirp and tried just 83/200 with same transducer selection and worse. The only way I could get any sonar I could use was to select either the high wide or DI 83/200 with the high wide being better. In clear mode I can set noise filter to off or 1, set the surface clutter to around 7 and adjust the sensitivity to around 11-12. Now the strange part. I don’t get much or any interference or clutter to around 25ft but any deeper the worse the interference/clutter. My unit is at the latest update which states there is a fix for this. So, it seems either that fix isn’t really fixed or another problem has been introduced. I also see this statement in he update but I have no idea what it means or how to use it but I also think this is part of the behavior. I think the below is affecting both sensitivity and surface clutter settings depending on the depth of water your in.

• Imaging Water Column Sensitivity (Imaging Models Only) – SwitchFire on Side Imaging and Down Imaging has been changed to Water Column Sensitivity. This feature allows the user to increase or decrease the sensitivity of the sonar return that is in the water column. Once this is done, the user can adjust the sensitivity of the entire sonar return with the Sensitivity menu setting.

• Fixed a sonar noise issue at 30 FT deep.

My next try is the XTM 9 WIDE DI 20 T once I get it. Now for the new issue. While messing with the above I noticed my 360 has white dots like a pin wheel. I don’t believe it’s interference because my other units, one doesn’t have any transducer connected and the other has the sonar set to 83khz.

[Tugger]

Wopper,

I have a Helix 10 SI gen2 so not sure if this applies. Reading thru your post I would just agree in general that things are pretty weird with Bird 2d. This is what I see.

1) High Chirp doesn’t produce arch tails (just a blob) unless set to max. mode and sensitivity increased to the point of cluttering the screen.
a. Even with High Chirp frequencies stretched to their maximum hi and low limits, arch tails can’t be produced with reasonable sensitivity set
b. Although not ideal by any stretch of the imagination, High Chirp is the most pleasing to the eye over High/medium or medium chirp by a long
shot

2) Switching then from high to High/medium chirp produces a massively pixilated and massively over saturated screen.
a) It appears that switching to Hi/med chirp massively increases the sensitivity to the point of cluttering the entire screen basically
b) Scroll speed seems to get bumped up and perhaps the processor can’t handle what’s going on because the pixilated screen is basically
such a mess that it’s not watchable even after decreasing scroll speed and sensitivity to best point.

The thing I take away from all this, is again, that High Chirp (though far from ideal) produces the best results by quite a margin. Hi/medium chirp is unwatchable even at best settings. I really don’t know what the problem is with Bird and 2d sonar as its like going back into the stone age. Do the people that program these 2d settings not play around with other brands for any reference at all to what is considered good? I have a HDS 5 that produces WAY better 2d images than the Helix, the HDS 5 is like 10 freaking years old or something. It kind of blows my mind that they can be comparatively excellent at Side-Imaging and at the same time, be so poor at 2d. This is my 2 cents.

[woppercatcher]

Wopper,

I have a Helix 10 SI gen2 so not sure if this applies. Reading thru your post I would just agree in general that things are pretty weird with Bird 2d. This is what I see.

1) High Chirp doesn’t produce arch tails (just a blob) unless set to max. mode and sensitivity increased to the point of cluttering the screen.
a. Even with High Chirp frequencies stretched to their maximum hi and low limits, arch tails can’t be produced with reasonable sensitivity set
b. Although not ideal by any stretch of the imagination, High Chirp is the most pleasing to the eye over High/medium or medium chirp by a long
shot

2) Switching then from high to High/medium chirp produces a massively pixilated and massively over saturated screen.
a) It appears that switching to Hi/med chirp massively increases the sensitivity to the point of cluttering the entire screen basically
b) Scroll speed seems to get bumped up and perhaps the processor can’t handle what’s going on because the pixilated screen is basically
such a mess that it’s not watchable even after decreasing scroll speed and sensitivity to best point.

The thing I take away from all this, is again, that High Chirp (though far from ideal) produces the best results by quite a margin. Hi/medium chirp is unwatchable even at best settings. I really don’t know what the problem is with Bird and 2d sonar as its like going back into the stone age. Do the people that program these 2d settings not play around with other brands for any reference at all to what is considered good? I have a HDS 5 that produces WAY better 2d images than the Helix, the HDS 5 is like 10 freaking years old or something. It kind of blows my mind that they can be comparatively excellent at Side-Imaging and at the same time, be so poor at 2d. This is my 2 cents.

I couldn't agree more! I've changed so many settings, transducers, wire locations and put on updates in the last 3-4 weeks I have no idea at this point where I'm at! It does seem that High Chirp is the only thing that remotely works at this point and in my case to only about 20-30ft then the bottom is so cluttered you can't see fish. I'm going to call HB but I know that is only going to be a beat down. And to top it off my 360 which was the only thing working is now cluttered with white dots which seems like transducer interference but I have no idea why since I'm not running 455 on any unit.