Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 70
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    3,402

    Lithium as start/crank/house battery reports

    Thought I'd start a thread to separate off the use of lithium batteries as a starting battery to help with consolidating information. The other main, giant lithium battery thread has some reports of use as a starting battery mixed in, but appears to be mainly a trolling motor application focus as this point. I thought this would simplify.

    Please post battery brand/specs and what motor, if you want post something about how you use the battery with respect to graphs, pumps, etc.

    There are some concerns about various lithium battery BMS controllers shutting batteries off due to excess voltage from motor charging systems. If anyone has had any real life experiences with problems thought to be due to motor charging systems, please post.

    I have an Ionic 125AH on a 2000 Yamaha OX66 EFI motor. I replaced a group 24M wet lead acid and dropped I think 14-16 lbs. At this point, I've had it out around a dozen times, it instantly cranks the motor and the motor appears to charge it very well. I have not yet put it through a lot of use with LW pumps on a long day. The old Yamaha EFI is supposed to have a max charging voltage of 14.5-14.6 from what I can determine, given a normally functioning system. Voltage regulators on this engine can fail and can either drop voltage to nothing or can result in high voltage, so that is something to be aware of. But with a nominally functioning charging system, seems to be a good fit.
    Kevin | 2000 Champion 19​1 | 2000 Yamaha OX66 200hp

  2. Member fishnfireman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Amarillo
    Posts
    12,442
    #2
    I used the Ionic 125AH with a 300XS opti for about a month. and was totally pleased with the performance. I only fished two tournament days with everything running (2 helix 12's, aerator and fish caller) The great thing was being able to monitor battery conditions and see what each item was drawing individually or combined.

    As you know Kevin I have just gotten a new V8 and have taken it out due to the slight possibility of a battery shutdown at high speed and Merc highly recommends an AGM.

  3. Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boerne & Three Rivers, Texas
    Posts
    18,061
    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by fishnfireman View Post

    As you know Kevin I have just gotten a new V8 and have taken it out due to the slight possibility of a battery shutdown at high speed and Merc highly recommends an AGM.
    Clarify, you took the lithium battery out and went back with an agm? Did you sale the lithium or are you going to experiment with it on the v8?


    But as far as using lithium’s for crankers, seems Mercury is the main one opposed to using them. I think Suzuki also recommends not using agm or lithium.

  4. Member fishnfireman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Amarillo
    Posts
    12,442
    #4
    I had it in with the opti. took it out before installing V8.
    At the speeds I can run thats an unknown I'm not willing to risk.
    It will be for sale.. Will be at Amistad this week

  5. BBC SPONSOR / PHOENIX MOD DREWTICK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Vass, NC
    Posts
    7,827
    #5
    I use the Ionic 125ah with a Yamaha SHO, Running 4 HDS units, Sonic Hub, 3D structure scan, Hydrowave, 3 gopros, 4 live well pumps and lots of lights.
    never had it below 52%,and still cranks like a charm with no graph issues. I ran a X2 power 31agm before. it was a great battery but many times I had to use the jump start to get back to weigh in.

    As a Dealer for Ionics I have sold to many guys running the Merc 4S V8., we do not advertise that its ok to use over what Mercury recommends but we have not heard of any issues but totally understand the concerns, maybe some of those guys running them will post there thoughts and results.
    Drewcraft Specializes in Lithium Batteries and Chargers, We carry all Brands of Trolling Motors and Graphs, Minnkota, Lowrance, Garmin, Motorguide
    910-722-0001 call or text
    info@drewcraft.com

  6. Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    3,402
    #6
    A sudden shutdown for any reason at just 50 mph, or even 40 mph, could be cause for concern and a significant risk factor, and the risks likely increase exponentially with real high speed running. I wish we knew more about that, maybe with time since the new engine is, well, relatively new and we just don't have the numbers out there to give more real world experience, whether it be purely from on water time, or more numbers of shop tests done on the charging system to really get a grasp for what it's doing.
    Last edited by 1bluemcm; 09-18-2019 at 09:12 AM.
    Kevin | 2000 Champion 19​1 | 2000 Yamaha OX66 200hp

  7. BBC SPONSOR / PHOENIX MOD DREWTICK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Vass, NC
    Posts
    7,827
    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by 1bluemcm View Post
    A sudden shutdown for any reason at just 50 mph, or even 40 mph, could be cause for concern and a significant risk factor, and the risks likely increase exponentially with real high speed running. I wish we knew more about that, maybe with time since the new engine is, well, relatively new and we just don't have the numbers out there to give more real world experience, whether it be purely from on water time, or more numbers of shop tests done on the charging system to really get a grasp for what it's doing.
    this is what used to happen with the old Yamaha shos and with different BMS design on brand unknown lithium's, this was fixed on the SHOs and also all the new BMSs on all major brands are designed with new smart technology
    Drewcraft Specializes in Lithium Batteries and Chargers, We carry all Brands of Trolling Motors and Graphs, Minnkota, Lowrance, Garmin, Motorguide
    910-722-0001 call or text
    info@drewcraft.com

  8. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    SW Missouri
    Posts
    325
    #8
    Full Lithium Pros on my Lynx since new. About a year and half in now with only one minor issue that has appeared in the winter a couple times. When it starts to get really cold (20 or so) for extended periods, the BCM in my house battery will shut down sometimes. The smart thing, according to my wife anyhow, would be to NOT FISH when it gets that cold! She's probably right but I can't bring myself to admit it!

    Other than that, they have been fabulous. Running the Stealth on the go charger to help keep the TM batteries topped off. Unless I'm fishing hard all day, rarely do I plug in on the AC side.

    All are Lithium Pro:

    Start--M3426P Little bitty race-style that recharges quickly so as to start feeding the TM side. I'll admit I was skeptical at first but it's been flawless.

    House--TM3190 100 amp runs everything else all day without issue. Lowrance Carbon 12 at the console, 9 at the front, stereo for tunes, livewells, everything else on the boat. I do have this on a perko switch so I can jump off this if needed. I will occasionally run the big motor on both to throw a bit of juice to this, especially if going on a long run. While I've never needed to, I have started off this battery a few times just to make sure it would do it. No issues. (*I should clarify that the TM3190 is not designed as a start battery. I have started the motor when it was tied in with the M3426P but I do not try and start the motor strictly off the TM3190. Thanks Joe!)

    TM--Two (2) M3140-36. Together gives me 80Ah of battery. Never even came close to running these down in a day.

    300 G2. I think technically they don't recommend a lithium but probably a CYA (Cover Your *ss) statement more than anything.

    I wouldn't hesitate to do it.
    Last edited by proptwister; 09-19-2019 at 09:51 AM.
    2018 BassCat Lynx
    Mercury 300R

    Beautiful Grand Lake
    Grove Oklahoma

  9. Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Atlanta, TX
    Posts
    27
    #9
    i have the 125ah ionic, 225 sho, 3 graphs and all the pumps ands accessories. it starts the motor just fine but my 2 hds gen 3 12's blink when starting the motor. ive ran all 3 graphs, the freshwater in pumps all day other than when the big motor was on the circulate pumps ran and still had 72% after the tournament.

  10. Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Flowery Branch, Ga.
    Posts
    5,990
    #10
    I have a 100 amp Relion cranking battery. Works great until it gets below freezing. Then it barely turned over my 250XS. I went back to my Odyssey PCM2150 for my 300XS as it has a lot more power at cold temps.

  11. BBC SPONSOR
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    143
    #11
    Our Lithium Pros battery will not shut off due to high voltage from the motor. The new battery we introduced at ICAST took care of that problem M3180-S

  12. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Salisbury, NC
    Posts
    453
    #12
    A lithium battery shut down will not shut the engine down, Once the engine is started it runs from the alternator, same as an automobile. Strange to me. What would happen if the engine blows at HIGH SPEED or control module goes out or if a coil fails? The big thing is when you have a outboard running to the very maximum for the high speed the possibility of the engine blowing is way greater than a battery problem happening???????? Like I'm saying the engine runs off of the alternator. In the past I've disconnected my cranking battery to jump start someone's dead battery at the boat ramp, just to get them going, without risking a short to my outboard and the engine kept running the full time. Just saying that's what the aternator is for, keeping the engine running. Just check it out next time at the ramp, unhook one of the battery cables after cranking the engine, you will see the engine keeps right on running, then you will know.


    RangerZ - IONIC Batteries, Lithiumhub.com

  13. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Soddy Daisy, TN
    Posts
    2,521
    #13
    My ionic 125 is starting the motor and running fine. However, when I trim the motor the graphs shut off while running. The app has a red error dot saying high voltage. Battery is 100 percent charged. It happens when I release the trim switch

  14. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Salisbury, NC
    Posts
    453
    #14
    Landar, High current is coming from the alternator most likely. When the battery management board see's the high current it will shut down to protect itself. When it shuts down the graphs will cut off because no current is available. The trim switch could also be wired wrong. A lead acid battery will take the high current load and boil the electrolyte away causing it to go bad in a relative short time, thus not cutting off your graphs. You need an outboard technician to find and correct the electrical problem. Or you will have to run your electronics off a seperate battery which is just a work around. High current has been detected in a few engines and their is no simple answer to the alternators eradicaly putting out the high current. Engine manufactures say they don't support lithium, the easy way out of their engineering problems. Surprising that the alternator high current doesn't burn ECMs or other electrical components. Food for thought.


    RangerZ - IONIC Batteries, Lithiumhub.com

  15. Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Flowery Branch, Ga.
    Posts
    5,990
    #15
    Lead batteries have a higher internal resistance, which regulates the maximum current that will flow into them. High voltage over time can burn them up. I suspect Lithiums have some form on load resistor or internal regulation to prevent damage.
    I've never had a lithium starting battery shut off. I have had 2 trolling lithiums shut off while fishing. No spikes or excess current there.

  16. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    3,673
    #16
    Keep in mind that if you use your boat on cold days, lithium-based batteries that take a charge must be buildt for the purpouse with heating-film in the batteries so they don`t recive a charge from your outboard when they are to cold. I regularly use my boat in sub-zero conditions (celsius), and the battery I use for the outboard must reflect that. Personally I use AGM for the outboard because of this, lithiumbased batteries build for cold conditions are costly. For the electric motors i use LiFePo4 with no heating as I charge those indoors anyway.

  17. Member fishnfireman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Amarillo
    Posts
    12,442
    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by RangerZ View Post
    A lithium battery shut down will not shut the engine down, Once the engine is started it runs from the alternator, same as an automobile. Strange to me. What would happen if the engine blows at HIGH SPEED or control module goes out or if a coil fails? The big thing is when you have a outboard running to the very maximum for the high speed the possibility of the engine blowing is way greater than a battery problem happening???????? Like I'm saying the engine runs off of the alternator. In the past I've disconnected my cranking battery to jump start someone's dead battery at the boat ramp, just to get them going, without risking a short to my outboard and the engine kept running the full time. Just saying that's what the aternator is for, keeping the engine running. Just check it out next time at the ramp, unhook one of the battery cables after cranking the engine, you will see the engine keeps right on running, then you will know.
    Had much experience with the new V8's from Mercury racing?

  18. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Salisbury, NC
    Posts
    453
    #18
    fishnfireman, I have two friends that are running IONIC 125AMP with the new Mercury 250 V8, 4 stroke and they are very satisfied. I see them at least once a week and we have spoken about the batteries often, no issue with the New Merc's. Hope this helps.
    Landar, What charger are you using?


    RangerZ - IONIC Batteries, Lithiumhub.com

  19. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Soddy Daisy, TN
    Posts
    2,521
    #19
    Minnkota 460PC set to AGM

  20. Member fishnfireman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Amarillo
    Posts
    12,442
    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by RangerZ View Post
    fishnfireman, I have two friends that are running IONIC 125AMP with the new Mercury 250 V8, 4 stroke and they are very satisfied. I see them at least once a week and we have spoken about the batteries often, no issue with the New Merc's. Hope this helps.
    Landar, What charger are you using?
    You pull one off a battery yet to see if it keeps running?

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast