Lithium as start/crank/house battery reports

[Team Colibri]

In general: Batteries with a BMS should not be used on any outboard. If in doubt, read #22 one more time. In the not so distant future the BMS in our batteries will network with both the chargers we use and the ouboards, thus solving the issues we see today. But we are not there yet, so stick with AGM for cranking until we get there. Many outboards have poor quality on the power from their generator (Suzuki are among the worst) with high and short voltage-spikes. These spikes will trigger the shut-off in the BMS.

If you really want to anyway: There are a few lithium-based BMS-batteries out there designed for cranking. These are programmed not to cut if the voltage peaks. Basicly they use the "spare" power to create heat so they don`t damage the cells or the generator etc in the engine used. The ones I have seen have ben LI-IONs, not LiFePo4. I have no experience with such batteries myself though.

[1bluemcm]

I'm irritated with myself for not more thoroughly researching this and finding out about it now after a purchase. I haven't had any issues, but now I feel like I have to mull it over a bit to try to determine the level of risk with this whole shut down thing, and if it's a risk I can or cannot live with taking kids out on the boat. Right now, based on other on the water reports, it seems like a low rate of occurrence, shutting down while running that is.

[haus9393]

Does this happen with other popular brands of lithium’s. battleborn, relion, lithium pros???

[Hunter689 / Get Outdoors]

Does this happen with other popular brands of lithium’s. battleborn, relion, lithium pros???

Relion and Lithium Pros have a new redesigned BMS that allows their batteries to be cranking batteries rated for the high voltage spikes.

[fishnfireman]

I haven't had any issues, but now I feel like I have to mull it over a bit to try to determine the level of risk with this whole shut down thing, and if it's a risk I can or cannot live with taking kids out on the boat. Right now, based on other on the water reports, it seems like a low rate of occurrence, shutting down while running that is.

Kevin; if we are to believe the latest lithium salesman and outboard engine authority--- our motor will not shutdown if a lithium battery shuts itself off due to a spike. I copied and pasted some of the many times he tells me- "

A lithium battery shut down will not shut the engine down,"

A lithium battery shut down will not shut the engine down,
Once the engine is started it runs from the alternator, same as an automobile.

I then asked if he ----Had much experience with the new V8's from Mercury racing? The answer was --

I have two friends that are running IONIC 125AMP with the new Mercury 250 V8, 4 stroke and they are very satisfied.

I then asked ---

You pull one off a battery yet to see if it keeps running? His answer was--

I most certainly have, engine keeps humming.

I assure you the engine runs from the alternator and has absolutely nothing to do with the battery

Bottom line, the outboard once started or after being jumped will continue to run, baring an alternator problem, and will have to be switched "off" to shut it down. Same as an automobile

The fact is as long as the alternator on the outboard functions properly the engine runs off of it, not the battery. You can use any battery you want.

So what you need to understand is the engine does not run off of a battery. The battery is used to start the engine and maintain power to run a 12Volt system.

I said a lithium battery shut down will not shut down a engine.

And I will tell you clearly, "A lithium battery shut down will not cut the outboard engine off". That's what the ignition switch does! shut the engine down.

Personally I'd be real hesitant to tell folks in writing that something which had the potential to do bodily harm--will not happen ! Especially when it's already been reported to have happened.

[Savage]

Mike I would follow the advice of Don Weed in regards to your 300R, not the battery salesman!!

[fishnfireman]

I already have. Dons and others who spent days talking to people in the industry.
Just don't want to see someone get hurt.

[RangerZ]

fishnfireman, I'm not looking to solve the reason why the battery will shut down after a certain amount of voltage is exceeded.
I'm looking for you to backup what you say about my motor shutting down at high speeds when the battery shuts itself off.

I've been told it has already happened

.
So who do I believe?
fishnfireman,

Personally I'd be real hesitant to tell folks in writing that something which had the potential to do bodily harm--will not happen !

Especially when it's already been reported to have happened.

Now you report that "I've been told it has already happened".
Why don't you have your " authority" post personally this information. Second hand and third hand information has known not to be accurate. Once again I'm posting my personal experience as well as first hand known information from the source itself.
Do as you please, follow who's information you please; I've only tried to be of help. No one on this or any other thread has personally reported a "Engine Shut Down", that I have read.
fishnfireman, so have them post exactly what happened, so all can read it.
Safety is first with me also.
I'm not a battery salesman.
Do as you please.

[grout-scout]

fishnfireman, I'm not looking to solve the reason why the battery will shut down after a certain amount of voltage is exceeded.
I'm looking for you to backup what you say about my motor shutting down at high speeds when the battery shuts itself off. .
So who do I believe?
fishnfireman,
Now you report that "I've been told it has already happened".
Why don't you have your " authority" post personally this information. Second hand and third hand information has known not to be accurate. Once again I'm posting my personal experience as well as first hand known information from the source itself.
Do as you please, follow who's information you please; I've only tried to be of help. No one on this or any other thread has personally reported a "Engine Shut Down", that I have read.
fishnfireman, so have them post exactly what happened, so all can read it.
Safety is first with me also.
I'm not a battery salesman.
Do as you please.[/COLOR]

So do you really think that you want to challenge one of the best Mercury mechanics in the world....

[Landar]

I have had the battery shutdown issue with my Merc 250 Pro 4s and the engine kept running. The only way I knew it was the graphs shut off.

[RangerZ]

Landar, [QUOTE]I have had the battery shutdown issue with my Merc 250 Pro 4s and the engine kept running. The only way I knew it was the graphs shut off.[QUOTE]I want to thank you for your "first hand" account of what happened when your battery did shut down.
grout-scout, Now let's get the best Mercury mechanics in the world to explain their "first hand" information and not "I was told" quotes. No I'm not challenging anyone, I'm just stating my personal experience "only". Every line I have written is my experience only.
Lithium versus AGM, Pepsi versus coke, vanilla versus chocholate..............preferences

[EuropeanAM]

Jerry- this whole line of discussion is honestly bordering on absurd.

The V6 and V8 Mercury Fourstrokes are DIGITAL THROTTLE AND SHIFT engines. ALL OF THEM.

The engine cannot function properly and safely without an appropriate battery attached. The manufacturer, and the manufacturer's Engineering Department have specified an AGM BATTERY ONLY for these engines (similar to the requirements on other previous model DTS engines).

Operating one of these engines with the wrong type of battery, ESPECIALLY a battery that may choose to "shut down" could be very dangerous. I would not recommend it under ANY circumstances for SAFETY REASONS.

[Savage]

And that my friends IS THE AUTHORITY ON MERCURY MOTORS.......Period!!!!!

[grout-scout]

And that my friends IS THE AUTHORITY ON MERCURY MOTORS.......Period!!!!!

[RangerZ]

EuropeanAM, I have said about 50 times Mercury does not support lithium. Its to much trouble for you guys to go back many many pages. Have your never in your life seen a AGM go bad? I have not "reccommeded" anyone do something that would endanger them. I said a "lithium shutdown" will not shut the "running engine down". You just seen a post to that very fact with a Mercury 250 V8 Fourstoke "Brand New 2019". What is your story? You did not give one fact, that supports "People on this post claiming that Mercury's have already been shutting down" Give the facts sir. Have all the Mercury reported shut downs been with lithium? Has it been with AGM? the gallery points to YOU, just the facts on engine shut down "please" I ask you in all respect.
The V6 and V8 Mercury Fourstrokes are DIGITAL THROTTLE AND SHIFT engines. ALL OF THEM.
Why did Landar's brand new Mercury 250 V8 Fourstoke keep running?
I would like you to clarify and give the facts on Mercury's shutting down, it has already been happenning as stated by others.

[fishnfireman]

[grout-scout]

Amazing.

[Team Colibri]

I`m going to quote myself here, hoping that maybe it is read this time around:

In general: Batteries with a BMS should not be used on any outboard.

This is not about the brand of outboard used, it is about trying to match two things that do not match (at this time). If trying to match stuff that do not match is something you like to do, get one of these:


It is far less expencive when it breaks, and far less dangerous when you miss on what goes where. ;)

[1bluemcm]

Jerry- this whole line of discussion is honestly bordering on absurd.

The V6 and V8 Mercury Fourstrokes are DIGITAL THROTTLE AND SHIFT engines. ALL OF THEM.

The engine cannot function properly and safely without an appropriate battery attached. The manufacturer, and the manufacturer's Engineering Department have specified an AGM BATTERY ONLY for these engines (similar to the requirements on other previous model DTS engines).

Operating one of these engines with the wrong type of battery, ESPECIALLY a battery that may choose to "shut down" could be very dangerous. I would not recommend it under ANY circumstances for SAFETY REASONS.

Off topic, but why AGM ONLY and not wet lead acid? What could possibly be so special about AGM over the tried and true wet cell for a starting battery? Just trying to understand the basis for the recommendation.

[RangerZ]

It certainly seems we are not going to get answers from these guy's, they just say I've been told or this is already happenning without one line of the actual facts. In the case of lithium we have a few guy's state their lithium battery shutdown and their Mercury kept right on running, they would not even have known their battery shut down had their electronic graphs not shut off. This is a brand new Mercury four stoke V8 engine.
To me, fishnfireman is absolutely correct taking lithium out and putting in "Mercury" reccommended AGM, for his safety as well as others. The boat he is driving will run well over 100MPH.
And untill we find out the fact's on why Mercury engines have been shutting down, is AGM involved or is lithium involved, and not hear say, we are not going to know. I was in hope Don Weed would enlighten us. He just gave Mercury "reccommendations". And we all have said the same on that. Hoping he will get back with the facts of the engine shut downs.
One other thing is some of the lithium battery manufactuers are reprogamming their Management Boards to handle the high current shut down. This could be good or it could be bad. I'm sure our electronic graphs have a high current shut down to prevent them from getting over voltage also. If the set value is over run the graph will turn off to protect itself, and we will be right back at square one. Pushing the power button on our graphs several times a day is unacceptable, and aggravating.
I'm out to lunch until we get actual facts.............