Battery list for V8 ?

[fishnfireman]

Out M3180-sc 12v lithium battery is very capable with that engine as out management will adsorb the excess voltage without shut off

Can you guarantee that ??

[fishnfireman]

What exactly is the output voltage when running? There should be zero ambiguity about what it can put out. I have the same 125AH Li batt you do, I think, and I've been throwing around the idea of a 200hp V8 repower, so that's why I'm interested.

River Rocket has done some extensive research on this and sent it to me in a text. If he wants to reveal his sources I'll let him do it.
I will say a shutdown has already occurred with a hi performance boat. They say if the battery is discharged it can handle a split second spike over the BMS specs. If the battery is fully charged and a spike occurs the BMS may shut the battery off.
River Rocket says he is getting 14.2 volts at idle. high charge voltage is 14.6.. Considerably more than an opti.

[1bluemcm]

It's a risk totally valid to not want to take. Fully understand. I think BMS cut off on the Ionics is 15.2, but in their documentation they state "~15.2", anybodies guess what "~" means in this case.

I've tried to dig into the charging system specs, there isn't much to see, particularly about voltage output parameters. Even on my old yammie, it's a pretty tight range of voltage output, nothing like a +/- 1V or anything like that. I'd be surprised if the voltage parameters, including the amount of variation inherent in the system, on these V8s aren't clearly defined. A significant voltage spike from the motor charging system would seem unacceptable. My understanding is that voltage is highest when the battery is run down and lowest when it's topped off. Wouldn't that also hold true on a lithium battery?

[River Rocket]

What exactly is the output voltage when running? There should be zero ambiguity about what it can put out. I have the same 125AH Li batt you do, I think, and I've been throwing around the idea of a 200hp V8 repower, so that's why I'm interested.

I believe he is quoting something I wrote. You should understand we both run boats capable of running over 100mph. Lithium's right or wrong have a some history with issues in regards to starting batteries. One manufacturer told me "remember these are advanced batteries and may not be just plug and play into our setups". Each one of us has a unique setup. The technology has come a long way and I'm sure will continue to as consumer demand rises. I run at high speeds. At those speeds the motor is running at max rpm so the charging system is at its peak and if the battery by design shuts itself off for protection from the charging system I will go a different route.

Lithium Pro's has commented and they can follow up with the specific technology they have that makes this a non-issue.

I have seen that my Mercury 300R puts out 14.2 to 14.3 volts at idle. The manual shows 14.5 +/-0.25 volts and a output of 37 amps at 1800 rpm and 85 at 6000 rpm (depending on alternator version it could be much higher).

The HP 100 lithium battery has a:
Recommended charge current of 5-50 amps with a max of 100 amps. They like you to be under 50.
Recommended charge voltage of 14.2-14.6 volts
The BMS charge cutoff is 15.6 volts.

Like many I researched the topic extensively. Do a search on BBC and you can find a lot. Some are running without issue and others are not.

[fishnfireman]

^^ ^^

[Bmdubya]

I'm interested in seeing the results of your amp draw testing on those birds in full operating mode and in standby.
I don't put my console unit in standby. It runs wide open all day along with the bow mounted unit. If I put the console unit in standby, my networked down/side scan sonar ducer mounted on the transom also goes off-line. As I have that as a screen box on my bow unit I need it on.

Mike,

Here is what I found during the load analysis: (using a fluke 379)

Just turning on power to the accessories (which only energizes the circuit and powers up my Ethernet hub) I see ~200mA
Turned on Console Graph, I saw ~3.1A
Turned on Bow Graph, I saw ~6.0A

Checked the following functions individually (I have a '19 Phoenix 919) and saw:

Nav Lights pull ~600mA
Recirc Pump (no load) 400mA
Aerator Pump (no load) 400mAh

All in all, 8A wouldn't be all that hard to pull on the cranking battery. If Im trying to reduce the 8 hour day consumption to 60%SOC or less, then I would need a ~106Ah battery.

After all of this, Ive decided to remove my parallel batteries, replace with the 31AGM, turn the low voltage alarms on the SOLIX units OFF, and just go fishing. If the graphs freeze up or start turning off, I'll start thinking more seriously about adding another house battery. Still not sure how I would charge 5 batteries without adding another charger....but I'll worry about that later.

[River Rocket]

Wow those graphs pull some juice.

Here is mine.

Amp Draw.JPG

[1bluemcm]

I believe he is quoting something I wrote. You should understand we both run boats capable of running over 100mph. Lithium's right or wrong have a some history with issues in regards to starting batteries. One manufacturer told me "remember these are advanced batteries and may not be just plug and play into our setups". Each one of us has a unique setup. The technology has come a long way and I'm sure will continue to as consumer demand rises. I run at high speeds. At those speeds the motor is running at max rpm so the charging system is at its peak and if the battery by design shuts itself off for protection from the charging system I will go a different route.

Lithium Pro's has commented and they can follow up with the specific technology they have that makes this a non-issue.

I have seen that my Mercury 300R puts out 14.2 to 14.3 volts at idle. The manual shows 14.5 +/-0.25 volts and a output of 37 amps at 1800 rpm and 85 at 6000 rpm (depending on alternator version it could be much higher).

The HP 100 lithium battery has a:
Recommended charge current of 5-50 amps with a max of 100 amps. They like you to be under 50.
Recommended charge voltage of 14.2-14.6 volts
The BMS charge cutoff is 15.6 volts.

Like many I researched the topic extensively. Do a search on BBC and you can find a lot. Some are running without issue and others are not.

Thank you sir. You do make a really good point in that these lithiums aren't exactly just a dumb box of lead....it's a piece of tech that has to actively, rather than passively, interact the motor systems. And anytime that is the case, there is always a chance of things not playing well together, especially when compared to a box of lead that is pretty predictable.

[Rick McFaul]

My 100 AH RELiON works great with the new Mercury motors. The alternator charge is within the specs for the RELiON battery. The only thing I don't like is there is only 1 positive and 1 negative post on the RELiON batteries. My cranking battery looks a little too busy in that regard. If I were to switch to AGM the Odyssey would be my choice. However I'm staying with Lithium for now.

[mikesxpress]

Mike,

Here is what I found during the load analysis: (using a fluke 379)

Just turning on power to the accessories (which only energizes the circuit and powers up my Ethernet hub) I see ~200mA
Turned on Console Graph, I saw ~3.1A
Turned on Bow Graph, I saw ~6.0A

Checked the following functions individually (I have a '19 Phoenix 919) and saw:

Nav Lights pull ~600mA
Recirc Pump (no load) 400mA
Aerator Pump (no load) 400mAh

All in all, 8A wouldn't be all that hard to pull on the cranking battery. If Im trying to reduce the 8 hour day consumption to 60%SOC or less, then I would need a ~106Ah battery.

After all of this, Ive decided to remove my parallel batteries, replace with the 31AGM, turn the low voltage alarms on the SOLIX units OFF, and just go fishing. If the graphs freeze up or start turning off, I'll start thinking more seriously about adding another house battery. Still not sure how I would charge 5 batteries without adding another charger....but I'll worry about that later.

Damn Brent those birds suck some amps! You should be fine with the 31 AGM though.

Was the 2.88 AMPS you indicated previously advertised power consumption from Hummingbird for your units? If so, I would be asking them why yours is so high.

[Bmdubya]

Damn Brent those birds suck some amps! You should be fine with the 31 AGM though.

Was the 2.88 AMPS you indicated previously advertised power consumption from Hummingbird for your units? If so, I would be asking them why yours is so high.

Mike,

I think the Ethernet hub/external GPS antenna, and dash/switch lighting is making up the difference. When I turn the master power switch on, without the birds, I see ~200mAh.

[EuropeanAM]

What exactly is the output voltage when running? There should be zero ambiguity about what it can put out. I have the same 125AH Li batt you do, I think, and I've been throwing around the idea of a 200hp V8 repower, so that's why I'm interested.

Two important factors to consider:

1. Dozens and Dozens of different V8 models, with at least two different alternators (different capacity/output, 85 amp and 115 amp).

2. The Idle Charge technology utilized is a specific CALIBRATION-Programmed feature, based on a specific battery type/design. PCM can control engine idle to ramp-up charging output when and where necessary/appropriate.

[capt odie]

Lots to consider
Flirting with repower to 250 4 stroke.
Was looking at a 100 amp lithium w 800 crank amps for house battery upgrade
but merc says lithium isn’t. Compatible with their 4 stroke. ???
goin to hold off and get more educated
thaks guys

[jphillips2546]

Been running Relion for 60 hours, no issue to this point.

[moetorola]

Catch 22 I suppose. Engine shutting down at 100 can be just as dangerous at 100+ as 70+ (albeit more scary at 100+). Alternator belt could fly off, engine or lower lock up...etc..etc..Pick your Poison!!

So what happens when if the BMS was to shuts down, someone said the engine shuts OFF!!!! The alternator does not take over??
I guess if the BMS drops out there is a very good possibility of "dirty" power. Alternators are not exactly clean with battery out of the circuit.

The alternator regulator should have no problem managing the voltage at any RPM range. The BMS needs to handle the overvoltage the may exists intermittently, similar to current on some brands. X number of seconds over XX.X voltage=dropout,, Not 15.6=dropout.

[EuropeanAM]

We're getting out there in the "stars" pretty far at this point with the "what if's".

Sure there are people out there running incorrect batteries with their engines. However- if something does go "awry" with the electrical system on your new V6/V8 product, you will not want an battery of the wrong type or capacity in the system. Any damage caused by use of an incorrect battery would usually not be covered under the engine warranty.