Having a hard time sticking fish on a skirted punch rig. 1.5 oz weight, skirt, snelled straight shank, ultravibe speed craw. Fish bites, I tighten down, swing and 7/10 times the bait comes back. I don’t have this problem on normal t-rigs, is there an adjustment to the hookset to overcome the big weight? Thx for any advice.
Try not snelling it. I know everyone says that’s the best way, but without going into a ton of detail, I’ve always felt that hinge action a snell gives you aims the point back towards the weight instead of into the roof of a fish’s mouth. Brandon Palaniuk did a video a couple years back illustrating that exact point:
I tie a Palomar knot, and hit them as hard as I can straight up. Very rarely miss. The big weight does sometimes blow their mouth open, but that’s maybe 1 in 10 instead of 7 in 10
Last edited by DrewFlu33; 08-26-2019 at 07:58 AM. Reason: Autocorrect...snell, not smell!
2011 Skeeter ZX225
225 Yamaha HPDI Series 2
Minn Kota Ultrex 112 52"
Console: HDS 16 Carbon
Bow: HDS 12 Carbon, Solix 12 G2, Mega 360, Garmin 106 SV, LVS 34
This video with Bradly Hallman can explain the proper hookset you need to be using with a heavy weight and snelled hook.. Most people's inclination when they feel a bite is to
drop the rod tip and cross theirs eyes.. In fact all you need to do is pull hard into the fish with no slack in the line.. Let the rod and braid do the work.. Drew did bring up a good point about a big weight literally blowing a fishes mouth open.. most specially if you're using a violent hookset. After I was finally shown the correct technique by someone else my hook up and land ratio dramatically improved..Also you might want to evaluate your rod choice too... A pool cue with no flex can actually hurt more than it helps.
Just curious, what hook are you using? A bigger weight will often require a bigger hook with a bigger "bite" to it. Also, I touch up all my hooks so they are extremely sharp. If it won't stick in my skin or my finger nail with a light graze over it, I will always touch the point up until it does.
Punching, 4/0 Owner jungles mostly. I use DX795’s for fishing grass and mats. 3/4 oz t-rig is my workhorse, and I rarely miss a bite so I don’t know what the deal is. I’ll try some of the different rigging suggestions, TY.
This sounds a little nutty (and it has to come with the caveat that we don't have 10 lbers here in MN) but when I'm not flipping with a 4/0 Gamy EWG Superline, I've gone to using the newish Gamy G-Finesse Heavy Cover straight shank. Obviously this is not a "finesse" game, and despite the name, this isn't a "finesse" hook either. I used to use the Superline EWGs exclusively, but found the hard way that flipping any type of "meaty" Elaztech on them is bad news bears as they want to ball up on an EWG. Obvious solution is just not to use Z-Man stuff there, but aside from the durability of Elaztech they also float which to me is really desirable in this application. So the Palmetto Bug has been really getting a workout for me this year - not only does the bait float, it will actually float the hook up off the bottom which I think is massive compared to flipping something that will sink into the muck - and this hook works incredibly for that. I tried a Tokyo rig for a similar effect, but it still just won't fish as clean as the punch rig.
The G-Finesse series is not cheap at all so if you tend to lose your punch rigs I wouldn't go this route. If you're not breaking off often, though, I've found they actually end up being more economical. Aside from being stupid sharp, the real benefit is that they hold their point incredibly well and I haven't been able to bend one yet. I've winched bass over 5 lbs out of thick coontail and milfoil and boat flipped them on multiple occasions and caught at least half a dozen pike approaching or exceeding the 3 foot mark on them and have yet to bend one. Entirely possible it's all in my head, but I've used "regular" Gamakatsu straight shank / heavy cover hooks for this application in the past and while they don't seem to bend either, they do lose their point much more quickly to where I'm having to toss them pretty regularly. Yes, you can touch them up, but it's never as good as the factory point and it doesn't last long. I think I'm on my fifth of these G-Finesse versions in the 2019 season fishing on average 3 days a week since mid-May, one of which was lost to a muskie. Obviously I'm not flipping/punching all the time, but I do it quite a lot.
I'm not sure what it is, but several hook companies are now coming out with what appears to be some version of this coating on their hooks or maybe even a new wire altogether (Gamakatsu "Nano Smooth Coat," Owner "Zo Wire" / "silky gray finish," Mustad "TitanX" to name a few) and for the Gamakatsu's at least, it seems to mean more strength for a given wire diameter and a sharper point that lasts a lot longer. It's definitely an interesting material, water droplets bead up on it like they do on a freshly waxed car and just roll off.
Last edited by DrewFlu33; 08-28-2019 at 10:24 AM. Reason: typos
2011 Skeeter ZX225
225 Yamaha HPDI Series 2
Minn Kota Ultrex 112 52"
Console: HDS 16 Carbon
Bow: HDS 12 Carbon, Solix 12 G2, Mega 360, Garmin 106 SV, LVS 34
I use the nano trebles on a lot of my hard baits. I’m also a big fan of the gammie superline, I epoxy the eyes shut and snell them with a lake fork knot. I just don’t like it as well with braid, so I use the owners instead. The gamakatsu heavy cover hook bait keepers suck, are they better on the g-finesse?
Worlds better. It's metal and welded or otherwise permanently affixed to the shank. It looks similar to the one on the Hack Attack flipping hook but is metal of some kind instead of plastic.
I'm flipping on 50 lb braid to a 9-10 foot (long enough to be just out of the reel when positioning the bait for a flip) 25 lb fluoro leader, just for reference. Straight braid sawing on vegetation kills my confidence, and feel like I get the best of both worlds here...just have to remember to back the drag off a click or two from what you'd do with straight braid else you'll bust a big one off from time to time.
2011 Skeeter ZX225
225 Yamaha HPDI Series 2
Minn Kota Ultrex 112 52"
Console: HDS 16 Carbon
Bow: HDS 12 Carbon, Solix 12 G2, Mega 360, Garmin 106 SV, LVS 34
I also completely forgot to agree with what VictorM said - I definitely do NOT drop the tip and slack line them, so maybe saying "hit them as hard as I can" wasn't the best description. That's a recipe for disaster I think...the physics of it eludes me but you definitely miss more doing that, again I think due to it making the weight blow their mouth open somehow worse than otherwise. So yes, always getting a taut line before setting it, but from there I'm trying to launch them into next week when I hit them. At least part of that is that I think it gets them headed the right direction (i.e. out of the shit) before they're fighting you.
2011 Skeeter ZX225
225 Yamaha HPDI Series 2
Minn Kota Ultrex 112 52"
Console: HDS 16 Carbon
Bow: HDS 12 Carbon, Solix 12 G2, Mega 360, Garmin 106 SV, LVS 34
Hackney had a good vid explaining his high percentage of jig hookups and stressed the importance of not slack lining them. I always take the slack up and feel for them before jacking them, whether with a jig or t-rig. Zona always does that weird thing with the tube before he leans on the rod. I thought he said something about getting them to open their mouth or something.
We're using the same rod, the only difference is that I am using the Gamy super heavy cover hook (https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Gama...page-GHSF.html). I'm not sure if that's the reason for my better hook up though. I don't miss many when I am flipping unless they are being super finicky (ie: just smacking the bait or dropping it as soon as they get it). It could be that they are just being super finicky with you and maybe just grabbing the punch skirt and not the bait, I've had this happen sometimes too and I'll flip back in there just to pull out a 10-12" bass that can barely get the bait in its mouth.Originally Posted by Black Duck
Ouch..... but totally fair!Looks like one of those Drew articles....
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2011 Skeeter ZX225
225 Yamaha HPDI Series 2
Minn Kota Ultrex 112 52"
Console: HDS 16 Carbon
Bow: HDS 12 Carbon, Solix 12 G2, Mega 360, Garmin 106 SV, LVS 34
I have my ALX Thunderbolt with anywhere from a 1oz all the up to a 2.5oz, weight in my hands about 85% of the time twelve months a year.. I agree that some baits require a bigger hook.. However something I figured out has upped my game even more and trust me I stumbled on it.. definitely not one of my brain storms.. Anytime you can go down to a 3/0 hook your hook up and land ratio will go up when fishing in thick vegetation .. Here's why... with a bigger 4/0 or 5/0 hook.. most of the time after the hook penetrates you end up with the point popping back through to the outside..now you have the business end outside of that fishes mouth.. Lots of time that results in the fish being able get that hook stuck into something else and gives him the leverage to tear the hook out.. I've fought to many fish beneath matts and thought that I had them pinned only to dig out my weight with a hook stuck through a hyacinth stem or ball of roots.. Going down to the 3/0 allows many of those hooks to remain inside the mouth taking away the opportunity for them use it to free themselves....
PS.. The hook I use is the 3/0 Owner Jungle Flipping Hook.. No worries about the 3/0 size you will not bend one....
I'm sure I didn't explain that clearly.. It's late..
Looks like one of those Drew articles....
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it's not always a must to upgrade your hook sizes with higher weights... I often fish a BB cricket with a 3/0 hook under a 1.5oz weight and on few occasions a 2oz.. The fish will still bite it trust me.. and if you use the proper hook set you will not have a problem..
Good information Victor! I've fished a 3/0 with a 1oz with great success on the BB cricket or baby d-bomb, haven't tried it with anything bigger yet, I'll give it a shot. Based on your location, I believe we're fishing some of the same water (Seminole?).
Most likely
the Hayabusa hooks have proven to be better than the gammy's to me and thats EWG and straight shanks
Shadow4 and VictorM, if you ever want any company let me know.
I like to travel but find it best to know someone in the area
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