Do any of you think that snelling a straight shank flipping hook can contribute to the hooks flexing out more easily than tying directly to the eye?
Do any of you think that snelling a straight shank flipping hook can contribute to the hooks flexing out more easily than tying directly to the eye?
Hmm,never thought about..maybe,but I've only opened 2 hooks in a lot of years of flippin.
I'm thinking the way the hook gets levered upward and the aspect the line is tied around the shank not the eye there might be a leverage aspect going on with the snell.Originally Posted by Frogchunker
Couple follow up questions for you and I appreciate that in the past you have contributed to anything "flipping/punching" I have posted. A) what hook are you using punching and size? B) I'm assuming you snell?
One's set up and hook setting technique and a lot of other things can contribute to hook flexing and everyone is different, but my issue and many I suspect is that certain hooks may flex out on the hook set and others that don't can have poor hook to land ratio's. There isn't a bass that swims that could open up a 6/0 Hackey hook for example but driving that crazy thick hook past the barb takes a ton more force than a straight shank flipping hook with less wire diameter. Some hooks are tempered differently and wire materials even vary but for the most part, the wider the gap and longer the shank the more likely the hook will open up or flex given the same wire diameter and I'm thinking the Snell knot is compounding the issue some how. I can name few hooks that have a high ease in penetration with out excessive flex for me.
I snell,for years I used the old RI BMF hook,but got tired of making my own keepers...then started using the Hack hooks.Good hook,but wasn't a fan of the non welded eye,and that resin closure..cut a couple of big fish off because the resin chipped/came off,and cut the line.Been using the Gammy extra heavy duty around 4 years now..I believe its the same hook as the BMF,but with a keeper.
Funny you should mention the Hackey hook and the Gammy Extra heavy cover. Both are two hooks that will NOT flex out. The Gammy super heavy cover flipping hook is only similar to the BMF in that it was made by Gammy BUT the wire diameter and tip to barb distance is far different. The original BMF had a wire diameter of 1.38 MM and the Gammy Super heavy cover has a wire diameter of 1.62 MM ( this is based on a 4/) hook size. The Hackney 4/0 which as a mentioned is made by Gammy has a 1.74 wire diameter for the 4/0 hook. Interestingly the Owner Jungle wire 4/0 hook which is made of the new Zo Wire which supposedly is much stronger will bend out yet it has a wire diameter identical to the 4/0 Gammy but a slightly longer shank length. ( I'm not bad mouthing Owner, their are other brands with 1.62 wire diameters that bend out as well.)
So you didn't say what size in each the Hackney and Gammy hook you were using. I agree about the Hackney hook and the eye, but Hackey doesn't Snell so for him it's not an issue.
4/0 in both
I guess it's possible given the leverage for a Snell to contribute to flexing but flexing should NOT occur on today's punch hooks. Like above I use a 4/0 for just about all punch baits except a bb cricket where I'll drop to a 3/0. I was a fan of the Gammy hook also until about a year ago i tried the Mustad Grip pin 3x punch hook. Im in love with that hook, best keeper out there imho, closed eyelet, very stout and the comeback on the bend is lights out for punching.
Last edited by Poppin' Frog; 08-12-2019 at 08:27 PM.
The 4/0 Hackney has a shank length and a gap more similar to the 3/0 Gammy and the 5/0 Hackney has a shank length about the same size as the 4/0 Gammy. The 4/0 Gammy, 4/0 Hackney and certainly the 5/0 Hackney with it's 1.97 MM wire diameter will not bend out. Why did you choose the 4/0 Hackney and then go to the 4/0 Gammy since the Gammy's shank length and gap is more the same proportions as the 5/0 Hackney?
BTW can you even imagine Greg Hackney using the 6/0 in a Beaver style/size bait? To me it's big time over kill and it protrudes so far off the back of the bait it makes it harder for the bait to penetrate that mat.
But many of them do flex out. Mustad's keeper I agree is the best. The 4/0 Mustad won't bend out either for the most part but has even thicker wire diameter than the Gammy 4/0
You have put some serious thought into these hooksTwo things that I want are welded eye,and a good keeper.Gammy works for me,now that they seemed to have fixed the keeper falling off.Wire on the 5/0 Hack looked so big to me,why I went 4/0..when I start opening hooks,maybe I’ll try something else..about the only hook I havent tried is the Trokar big nasty,and cant find a 4/0 anywhere,even though the Trokar straight shanks I tried years ago were terrible
You think I have put some thought into this reallyBrandon McMillan and I actually have worked on designing flipping hooks and are always trying to make a better version so I have reams of data and specs about straight shank flipping hooks. If you snell, a welded or very well sealed eye is essential. As I mentioned, Hackney doesn't snell so that may be the reason his "name sake hook" does not have a welded eye? There are a lot of other variables I look at for me on a straight shank flipping hook and right now my observation was that possibly snelling is contributing to hooks flexing out and with all this discussion about snelling vs not snelling it got me thinking?
Ultimately, flex and wire diameter are the most important aspects for a hook flexing out. One can go like Hackey and use a 6/0 Hack hook and I'm 100% certain it will never open up but how efficient is it in regards to hook to land ratio, ease in penetrating a thick mat, and is it more efficient rigging it with out snelling it? One can also go with a lot of hooks that have a smaller wire diameter and get easier penetration as long as your set up and hook set doesn't open the hook up. For me that's the issue.
The Trokar 4/0 Big Nasty has a wire diameter of 1.53, an excellent keeper, a welded eye and slips into mat very easily. However I bend those out/open them up often. The Trokar Tk 133 in the 5/0 has a wire diameter of about 1.62 mm depending where on the hook you measure it but it's shank length is a little long in my opinion to fit most beaver style baits. Trokar says these TK 133 are made of their new high strength metal ( similar to the Zo Wire from Owner)
The Mustad 3X 4/0 is an incredibly well designed hook and won't bend out for the most part but it's wire gauge as I said earlier is even thicker than the Gammy 4/0 Heavy cover.
You have put some serious thought into these hooks
Gentlemen - I read ever word and enjoyed the discussion. Thanks
Glad you enjoyed it. Please feel free to add anything you might care to share? I'm most interested right now in discussing if a snell knot could be the cause of much of the issues I have with hooks opening up?
I could make you go deaf dumb and blind from all the specs and data I have on just about every straight shank flipping hook made
What rod are you using now?Glad you enjoyed it. Please feel free to add anything you might care to share? I'm most interested right now in discussing if a snell knot could be the cause of much of the issues I have with hooks opening up?
I could make you go deaf dumb and blind from all the specs and data I have on just about every straight shank flipping hook made
So far, my two favorites are 2 custom made spiral wrapped St Croix Legend Xtreme 7' 11" rods I have and a discontinued 7' 11" Loomis IMX (722 I think?) that was customized as well. It's the version Brandon used to win at the BASS Open at Seminole in 2015
Don't bother. I tried the big nasty, hell, I'll give them to you free if that tells you anything. There is such a thing as too sharp when it comes to punching. They tear thru plastics and fish but the real problem is in order to make something that sharp you have to make it extremely fine. Well that doesn't go well with punching and hard hooksets. The points roll or chip off after a few fish, especially of you drive it thru the boney top portion of a bass's jaw.You have put some serious thought into these hooks
But seriously, if you want to see for yourself and try the 4/0 IM me your address and I'll put a envelope in the mail to you lol.
Yeah,that was my issue when the regular Trokars came out..rolled points..thanks for the offer,I’ll take your word though
The best thing you can do is....... well, don't think about it, just do what Sean does!!!
I'm using the Gama heavy cover worm hook because of the wrapped keeper on the Super heavy cover and mudfish cutting the keeper off. BUT, I opened a pack of those last week and found that they had really small barbs and lost two key fish.
Stroker / 250xs
Triton 180 / 175 pro xs
Mark, maybe something didn't come out right in your post but the Gammy Super heavy cover straight shak flipping hooks have for about two years+ have welded on keeper barbs, the older versions had the wrapped ones that came off. Regarding barb size on the Super Heavy, it's barb is bigger than most. Aron Martins designed it to have a bigger barb purposefully.
My biggest issue with the newer Gammie's is a lot of times, the bait holder is too far down the shaft. I am always on the look out for old stock with higher bait holders.
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