115 Optimax Issues

[bishoptf]

Well not sure where to start but pretty bumming, long cold winter and when I put my boat up it was running fine. It started right up and idle fine, idle out to the no wake zone and then ran it for a short period of time, then while running it just died, like the kill switch was pulled. It started right back up and kept doing the same thing then it final started running really rough, no power etc. No smartcraft alarms etc. I have had this issue before when I lost a coil and thought that was the issue, after troubleshooting I could tell it was #3 cylinder that was not working properly.

Idled back from my lift and put it on the boat and pulled the plugs, #3 was wet and yucky, did a compression test on #3 and it doesnt even register on my guages, the other 2 are 120psi. So its not a coil and its much bigger issue, I am not the original owner but since I have gotten it I have done all of the maintenance work on it. Now I am in the process of figuring out what exactly is wrong with #3 cylinder and is a powerhead my only option. I have done a leak down test on the cylinder and its bad also, almost no compression at all, no air comes out when you turn it over, which I can do by hand. I have take the fuel rail off and but do not have a bore scope to see further inside.

Here are my motor details, 115 Optimax 2005, serial# 1B026476
Always treated fuel Marine Stabil, Penzoil xlf oil

And the kicker is I only have 145hrs on the engine

I plan on rebuilding myself but I really need to determine the cause of failure so it doesn't repeat itself. Can I rebuild the one cylinder or is the reman head from merc the really only way to go, the engine is not siezed but until I take it apart I am not sure what is causing the lack of compression.

At this point taking any suggestions I can get, thanks. :)

[lfb6]

Well, I know how that feels, mine was just a '06 Optimax 75 with 311 hours but that's also too early

The only thing to do now is tear apart the powerhead, check every single part, decide what has to be renewed and count together! Get a service manual from Don if you don't have one already.

You can exchange single pistons with 0.015 in./ 0.030 in. oversize pistons, they are supposed to have the same weight as standard ones.

When was your water pump changed last time? Water temp and pressure was OK?
Checked the oil lines? Problems with lubrication?
If you aren't sure that it wasn't a lubrication or cooling failure: Check the compressor in addition, especially the crankshaft pivot and bearing, that would be an expensive add-on.
Lean condition? Whatever you decide to do have your fuel injectors, direct air injectors and fuel rail checked/ serviced.
The other things I could think of would be a broken reed or piston ring- but that you will see when you tear it apart...

Good luck!

[Nova Kaw 650]

How long did you let it warm up, and did you run it hard once it warmed up?

[EuropeanAM]

Determination of the CAUSE of the failure will require teardown and inspection of the engine (then inspection of thermostat, cooling system, Direct Injector(s), Fuel Injectors, etc).

Really no way to determine it blindly... aside from saying it's blown, and will require teardown.

[TritonTRXV8]

Do you have a smartcraft instrument to verify that the t stats were functioning and bringing the engine up to proper temp at idle before you took off? Sounds like a cold sieze to me. But like Don said wont know til you tear it apart. What was the water temp where you were running. Most parts of the country have warmed up tho.

[bishoptf]

Thanks Guys for all of the feedback, was up late taking things apart and didnt get a chance to post. According to my smartcraft monitor I had good h2o pressure, I want to say around 13psi under load. I also think I scanned through my temps and I think they were all in line, I did not get any alarms at the time. However when was idling/limping back to the boatramp I did get an alarm, although I am not sure what it was for. I had an alarm bell and a long alarm but when I put it in neutral and it died, when I restarted it did not alarm again.

I did allow it to warm up, pretty much like I always do, we have a pretty big no wake zone, so I have to idle out past it before I am able to go. Not sure if I was at full wot or not but pretty close to it, but when it died the first time it was like someone pulled the kill switch. I had this happen a couple of times last summer but only at wot and it would start back up and I could go, it wasn't consistent though and when I put her up she was running fine.

I do need some help and advice, I have removed everything and I am to the step where I can remove the powerhead with a engine crane/hoist. I need to pick up a crane but I was also wanting to know is if you work on the powerhead on the crane or will it fit on an engine stand, I have access to a couple of stands but not sure if they will work. Any advice suggestions on how to work on the power head once I pull it will be appreciated.

The other thing I will need is the hoist ring, I don't have the part number but it is listed in my service manual. Is there other rings that will fit it or other options, or is that the only way to go. I haven't looked on ebay etc but thought I would ask first.

I do have the manual and its really really good compared to some of the auto ones, really helped taking things apart. The engine is not sieze and it turns over smoothly, #1 and #2 have compression and three has nada, no air comes out when I turn it over. I looked in with a flashlight and can see the piston moving up and down but the holes are so small you can't see much.

Oh and my boat is a 2005 Ranger 180 V/S, no fishing until I can get it working again....BIG Bummer.

[lfb6]

....... Not sure if I was at full wot or not but pretty close to it, but when it died the first time it was like someone pulled the kill switch. I had this happen a couple of times last summer but only at wot and it would start back up and I could go, it wasn't consistent though and when I put her up she was running fine.. ....

It'll be interesting how your engine will look, good compression means for now that the piston rings still can expand against the cylinder wall not that nothing has happened to the piston...

......... but I was also wanting to know is if you work on the powerhead on the crane or will it fit on an engine stand, I have access to a couple of stands but not sure if they will work. Any advice suggestions on how to work on the power head once I pull it will be appreciated.

Don't work on it "hanging"- I removed the 8 long mounting studs and used 4 holes in the block to mount the engine on a stand. Take threads to the "back" so you have room for removing the lower end cap and separating the block. It was a quite simple stand, bolted the block directly on the plate. One might put some rubber between to protect the sealing surface....

The other thing I will need is the hoist ring, I don't have the part number but it is listed in my service manual. Is there other rings that will fit it or other options, or is that the only way to go. I haven't looked on ebay etc but thought I would ask first.

Yes, you will need the lifting eye but the flywheel puller and a flywheel holder might be helpful, too. Do yourself a favour and get an account at EuropeanAM, collecting parts via ebay will become a quite annoying job.....

[EuropeanAM]

You'll need a Lifting Eye, Part# 904551.

I would definitely recommend removing the studs, and either mounting it to an engine stand (or working with it laying on a soft-surface bench).

You can view the parts diagrams for the engine on our website (by serial number) at: European Marine- Parts Department

BBC Discounts are available through Sherm @ Sherm's Marine (or us).... Email or Phone are the BEST means of contacting the Parts Departments.

[bishoptf]

You'll need a Lifting Eye, Part# 904551.

I would definitely recommend removing the studs, and either mounting it to an engine stand (or working with it laying on a soft-surface bench).

You can view the parts diagrams for the engine on our website (by serial number) at: European Marine- Parts Department

BBC Discounts are available through Sherm @ Sherm's Marine (or us).... Email or Phone are the BEST means of contacting the Parts Departments.

I have friends and they have a crane and a stand, I should have them by tomorrow or tuesday and the plan is to remove and mount in a stand. The bolts appeared to come off pretty easy and I should have no issue removing the studs, however they look pretty gunky I am thinking about replacing them also. The other thing I found which I am sure you are well aware is when removing the fuel line, OMG I should have replaced that years ago. The insides were just unbelievable so I need to replace all of the fuel line, bulb etc. The other thing I need to figure out is I can replace the injector but do I need to have the fuel rail serviced or just replace the injectors?

Need to get them shipping as soon as I can so I will be calling tomorrow and get that on order for sure and then its a matter of opening things up and figuring out what else I am going to need, really curious to know why the piston is not sealing up. Which number and who should I talk to when I call?

Thanks.

[Haughton]

Your in luck, EuropeanAM also performs injector cleaning/adjustments, fuel rail cleaning or you can send him your entire system. Also, since it will be torn down that far, he also sales the TDR reeds. He should be getting my package tomorrow. On his website, you can download the form to send it all in.

Sorry to hear about your motor issues.

In the next performance forum, Jay from JSRE can cut your heads and has a large following for his quality work.

[TritonTRXV8]

If the fuel line was in that bad of shape did you pull your fuel filter out and check how much of the fuel line debris was present? I would say you should have the entire injector rail serviced and checked out by Don.

[EuropeanAM]

We can certainly assist you with the rail, injectors, and direct injectors (ALL should be done at the same time). Visit our website, view the materials available, and download a Service Request form from the bottom of this page:

EUROPEAN MARINE, LLC

In reference to heads/Jay Smith... although Jay does great work, that's a mute subject for this engine model (no removable head).

[Haughton]

Hmmmm.. im never going to get my journeyman mercury certificate.

[bishoptf]

Duplicate post...

[bishoptf]

It's a sad day, I have the engine apart and have the crank and the pistons out. Still need some advice on what may have caused it but it appears on the exhaust side this piston is melted at the edge, rings are still attached and there is some scoring but I am trying to determine how bad the scoring is in the cylinder to see if I need a new sleeve or i could just re-hone the sleeve. Tomorrow I will clean up the cylinder and figure out my options.

But I would like to figure out what may have cause what i guess was a lean condition and what I can do to try and not repeat it. The good news is oil was everywhere so that appears to working fine and the 1 and 2 cylinders look like new, so it's just number 3. Here are some pictures, I have more but here are some to start with, the third attachment is the 2 good cylinders not a good picture but drastically different from #3.


Hopefully these are good enough to get an idea. I assume I need to have the 2 injectors serviced but trying to figure out what else I need to do.


Like I said just a sad sad day :(

[Wildcat Dude]

Forum is having issues at the moment it seems displaying the images larger - gives invalid link message. Same thing on 1st image but after 3 tries it pulls it up, but not the others - just times out. Its why I like using a photo hosting site, then you can post any size image you want.

[lfb6]

......... I assume I need to have the 2 injectors serviced but trying to figure out what else I need to do.

Like I said just a sad sad day :(

It's not your sadest day, that was the day when you recognized the engine was blown!

You know now that all your bearings, your crankshaft and cyl. 1 and 2 are fine and it's just cyl.3 that's blown. That's in my opinion not too bad- in fact if the cylinder wall isn't too hard damaged it's the best result possible: With zero compression on a cylinder you had to have a piston issue. And you know now, too, that your engine stalls last summer were already seizes.

As for the reason I'd go for a bad injector spraying directed to the cylinder wall as the wall of the central chamber on the piston head is also melted in this area.

If I've understood the oiling system correctly the cylinder walls get lubricated by 3 oil- lines coming from the compressor. These lines have check valves in the compressor and in the block. For the peace of mind you might check at least the line and check valves for cyl. 3.

A local overheat condition would look different imo and the development would've been more abrupt. I assume you will go for a new water pump, thermostat and poppet valve anyway.

I think you should have all your 6 injectors and rails checked not just the 2 injectors concerned! Get a new piston, get the cylinder machined and injection parts checked and you're on the water again.

And no, I'm not cynical about your bad day- I found once that with 2x 120 psi and 1x 60 psi:
crank_pis.jpg

Good luck

[Nova Kaw 650]

Lean on that cylinder.
Probably bits of fuel line in the injector, combined with some additional gumming over the winter.
Don will be along, I'm sure.

[EuropeanAM]

I'm going to disagree with the lean-running assessment. DEFINITELY recommend the rail and all (6) injectors be cleaned, tested and serviced- but there is clear evidence (in the form of carbon deposits) atop that piston that indicate adequate fuel WAS being delivered.

If you carefully inspect the piston rings at the exhaust port area, you'll note GROOVES in the rings (the rings HUNG in the exhaust port). This in turn ripped a portion of the piston crown away, directly above the port.

The added friction caused by the damaged rings (and debris floating around/transferring from one surface to another) resulted in increased temperature in this area. Damage done to the "dish" area was likely either related to this increased heat, OR to debris that was compressed between piston crown and cylinder end (inspection inside block/cylinder would help with that determination).

I strongly suspect that sometime in the very recent runtime (within the last 3 hours) this engine did NOT reach operating temperature prior to acceleration. When this occurs- the cylinder wall liner does not properly expand, but the PISTON DOES (at about 40 times faster rate). Piston/rings essentially become larger than the bore- exhaust side of piston being the fastest expanding area. A piston ring extends to far into an exhaust port as the piston passes the port, and the ring catches the edge of the port (pictured above is the resulting damage).

[Nova Kaw 650]

How long did you let it warm up, and did you run it hard once it warmed up?

This unanswered question becomes much more critical, i.e. actual elapsed time. Either that, or the thermostat was stuck open.
Still some cold water out there.