Pretty cool video and I can appreciate the engineering involved! Did you do comparative analysis on using additive manufacturing of the frames and buttons instead of milling?
Pretty cool video and I can appreciate the engineering involved! Did you do comparative analysis on using additive manufacturing of the frames and buttons instead of milling?
WOW!!! An amazing Engineer/Designer and he obviously understands the application parameters as well.
I was concerned at first that the foot pedal was too fragile for the use environment but I’m over that.
This is to forward facing sonar what the iPhone was to cell phones.
I try to drive as if my 16 year old Grandson is following me
Speak as if he is listening and act as if he is watching
Are there any full photos or videos of what was on display at the classic for those of us that could not go?
YOU are not entitled to what I have earned!!!!!
2014 Phoenix 619 Pro / 2014 Mercury 200 Pro XS
Wow! Thank you all for the kind words. It is extremely validating to hear those comments!!
I have been 3d printing for over a decade and consider it the absolute gateway drug to making stuff. BTW, if you have a child or grandchild that likes to make things, get them a 3d printer. I currently have three of them and print dozens of parts a week with them. With that, I simply cannot imagine selling a 3d printed product that is designed to take any reasonable load, be out in the sun, or in water from a 3d printed part. Now additive metal (SLS in particular) I like but still require post processing (milling) to get the mating surfaces to the standards I require. The SLS parts are also MUCH more expensive than machining from solid 6061.Did you do comparative analysis on using additive manufacturing of the frames and buttons instead of milling?
As for general material selection, I am pretty relentless in trying everything I can to make a)durable, b)compact, c)lightweight and d)aesthetic parts. If there is a better way or material to make any of the parts I am making, then I am 100% open to it and will continue to develop this into what I hope is the best made, best designed product on the market.
I have been posting to our Instagram account and have a picture of our Classic display. When we got back from the expo we realized that all of our videos were with me giving demos to Elite or BPS pros, or Lowrance, Garmin, MinnKota, and PowerPole people and I don't think it is right to post those.Are there any full photos or videos of what was on display at the classic for those of us that could not go?
Here is a shot of our display (note the foot pedals are in frames I made to add weight as we could not screw them down).
IMG_4641.jpg
I will be posting more videos in the coming weeks, including details on the motor housing, transducer rail and installation videos on the Garmin and Lowrance trolling motors.
Here is a quick one to close the discussion on the strength of the foot pedal:
Thanks again for the comments!!
How responsive is the “follow trolling motor” function? I played around with the idea of a magnetic clutch to engage/disengage from the TM shaft because no matter what I do I cannot get the follow trolling motor function to keep up enough for chasing fish around in open water. I think this is the area that will really make or break a device like this. I hope you can make it work!
The response on my system is instant. There is zero lag between any of the inputs (foot control, trolling motor, or NMEA compass heading). There is also zero drift as I use an absolute position sensor on my output for closed loop motion.How responsive is the “follow trolling motor” function?
The only issue you might have, or notice, is that the trolling motor can accelerate and turn faster than my motor. The Lowrance engineer I spoke with in Tulsa said they have a 75 RMP motor turning of their trolling motor. We currently are using 12 rpm motors in our test units. I do have a planetary gear motor being made to my specification (at significant cost) for us to test that is coming in a couple different and higher RPM. These should be here in a week or two at the most to test. But at best they will be half the speed of the trolling motor.
If your are into this stuff:
One major issue with these small gear motors in this application is that they don't like to, or simply can't 'back spin.' Back spin is simply the ability to force the motor to twist by hand (or stump). Most of the products in this space use a small worm drive motor. They have zero back spin capability and will simply break (motor, shaft, pin, etc) when forced backward. They also have an issue that when they are in the stowed position, the weight of the transducer is "bound" to that gear stack due to the hysteresis in the worm mechanism. This makes long term stow running in rough water (or even driving down the road) a major concern.
The motors we have been testing (dozens and dozens of them btw) will do the same when the RMP rating of the motor is under 20. 20 to 30 RMP they will backspin on occasion, over that we can get a reliable back spin. Our ability to 'park' the transducer against the frame when stowed is big design feature and is there specifically to remove the gravity/twisting load of the transducer(s) from the motor.
The question might be asked, why not just increase the RMP then. Well, the problem with higher RMP gear motors is that they lose torque and therefore require a stronger electric portion to meet my requirement of moving 3 transducers. To offset this, you increase the size of the electric portion of the motor but then you end up with a bigger motor, you increase the current draw, which increases the size of the motor driver, which increase the size of the capacitors for the motor driver and creates packaging problems, and on and on.
Motor and driver selection is the biggest challenge I have faced with the design of this product as the tradeoffs are simply not possible to engineer around.
Plan's for a PP Move unit ?
My system uses a 20k RPM motor. Yep you read that right.
The other thing I have found which has been a big issue is that my system creates a ton of RFI when activated. I haven’t really played around with trying to alleviate it so it might be as simple as some shielding or a loop in the wires. May also be related to the (unnecessary) high amp draw of the motor haha
The last thing I think that will be another challenge to adoption will be a position indicator in line of sight. Whether it’s a hard arrow linked directly to the drive or a remote digital indicator thats placed somewhere higher than at the feet, I think if you can figure out a way for a guy not to have to look down at the pedal to know the position once he takes his foot off will be a nice feature.
Exciting for you to share this development.
Force, Ghost, Ultrex Quest, Ultrex, then if demand is sufficient - Powerpole Move.Plan's for a PP Move unit ?
Here's a short video from a full day testing yesterday. This is Trolling Motor Sync mode with new 18rpm planetary gear motor that we had made. It is faster, stronger, much more durable and can free or back spin when forced!! It had zero trouble moving a LVS62 in perspective mode (62 in perspective is unreal BTW) and a LVS34 in forward while trolling at nearly 4mph and my battery producing 10v.
Did the second 'how it's made' video, this time on the motor module, for anyone who wants to dive deep into the construction of our sonar aiming system.
So how close is "gen 1" to being released?
Looking great!
After a ton of back and forth with a number of motor makers, we decided to have our own motor custom made. It is 18 rpm (vs 12 before) and slightly higher torque than the prior motor. It is also planetary gear and an order of magnitude stronger than the spur gear motor we were using. It is made by the company that makes almost every gearset used in every impact tool on the market so you know how much punishment they can take. We have upspec'ed to full hardened metal geartrain (most small gear motors have one or more plastic gears) and a tighter/better shaft bearing.So how close is "gen 1" to being released?
Making this move has delayed shipment at least a month but ultimately it will be a better product. Unfortunately the motors are made in China as there is NO alternative for small gear motors. We are awaiting of the first bulk run of these to ship DHL Air. They are telling me any day but they have said that for several weeks. Everything else is ready to go except for cases, which I am working on and may be a mid production change.
How big is the "brain" to this device? Where will it be located?
Second question, I have watched your videos using your hand vs foot to rotate the pad. Certainly with the hand, it makes perfect sense...but our foot doesn't nearly have the dexterity/control that our hand does. Looking down, manipulating our foot with whatever shoe one might have on (or no shoe for many) changes the UI experience. (I too am a software engineer who has spent a lot of time with UI development LOL). What are your thoughts on this?
I am using a 240mhz (dual core but only using one for now) cpu located in the foot control. Early units were run on a 16mhz cpu and ran perfectly. So clearly, lots of headroom.How big is the "brain" to this device? Where will it be located?
I had several testers that wondered about the foot control before they used it. After use, to a man they said it is the best feature. Once you see how easy it is to make small movements side to side to locate a bait, stump or edge of a brush pile, you will have a total 'Aha' moment.Second question, I have watched your videos using your hand vs foot to rotate the pad. Certainly with the hand, it makes perfect sense...but our foot doesn't nearly have the dexterity/control that our hand does. Looking down, manipulating our foot with whatever shoe one might have on (or no shoe for many) changes the UI experience. (I too am a software engineer who has spent a lot of time with UI development LOL). What are your thoughts on this?
As for using the foot for control in general, we have used our foot for over half a century for steering trolling motors. And this setup is easier to use than a trolling motor as there are no balance issues as your weight is always on your heel.
Thanks. So all of the smarts is within the foot control? There isn't a separate box or anything?Originally Posted by Revolution Sonar
Some smarts on an epoxy potted circuit board under the motor but mostly on the circuit board in the foot control.Thanks. So all of the smarts is within the foot control? There isn't a separate box or anything?
The only separate box is 1"x 3/4" x 5" billet aluminum junction block that distributes the wiring and is designed to be in the well of the bow of the boat. Then one 8 pin cable to the foot control, one 5 pin cable to the motor, a 3 pin cable to the pivot sensor on the side of the trolling motor frame, and then a 2 pin for power and receptacle for NMEA. All cables will be included except for NMEA hookup cable.
Any ideas on price? Looks amazing!
I made an initial estimate and published last fall that I was shooting for "under $2k." This was before I added the 'Trolling Motor Sync' mode parts, before making the rail system with included double mounting locations and 'V' rail height adjustability (FYI - I have not shown this yet but it is very slick.)Any ideas on price? Looks amazing!
I will honor that price for a limited number of units - 15 - Lowrance Ghost @ $1995 and 15 - Garmin Force $2095. These will be full production units with the new custom made motor (when they come in), but will be sold with a Pelican style hard plastic case and not the final production fitted semi-rigid nylon case with custom EVA foam liner as shown below. The minimum quantity for cases that I ordered in January was 1,000 units with a lead of 180 days, unfortunately they aren't going to be in and I want to start shipping.
To date, a little over 6,000 people have put there email address on our mailing list (website www.revolutionsonar.com). I anticipate that these 'introductory' units will go very quickly.
Going forward, there are just too many machined parts to hold that price, so there will be a considerable increase after the initial 30 units.
Thanks for your kind comments!
Case Mockup.jpg
Very, very cool! Im sure you will sell tons!!
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