My 18.3 to 18.2 Comparison (Carbons and SS3D)

Well, tonight I got the boat out for the first time this season. As promised, I would post my results to see if we can help yup with his saga, and to just share info.

Setup:
HDS Carbon 12 at the Helm, Transducers Connected: TM150 on transom and HDI in hull configured as Generic 83/200 so the DS doesn't interfere with the SS3D
HDS Carbon 9 at the Bow, Transducer Connected: MinnKota US2 in my Terrova, Configured as Generic 83/200
SS3D Ethernet Connected to both Carbons
SS3D Transducer on the Transom next to the TM150
NEMA 2k interconnecting both units
Point 1, Through Hull Temp Probe
Note, I do not have a jackplate, but my TM150 and SS3D are mounted above the pad of my boat, just above the step, on the transom, so they are about a foot under water when I am at rest, or going slowly forward. They come out of the water when I am on plane.

Firmware:
Have the Latest 18.61.1.155 on both Carbons
Have the Latest 18.61.1.123 on the SS3D

Water Conditions:
Was on a reservoir, Lake Zumbro, just north of Rochester, MN, to be exact.
There is still a lot of muck in the water from the spring thaw and recent rain.
Water is not clear, more stained, there is definitely some silt in the water column.


A few observations:

• Generally found the DS and SS on the latest FW to be really good.
• Setting Surface Clarity on the SideScan to Medium or High took some of the fuzz out...will show that later -- may be due to the silty water
• Setting Surface Clarity to Medium on the DS cleaned up the images fairly well.
• Was my maiden voyage w/ my TM150, while I think I got it parallel with my SS3D transducer, I may have some leveling to do with it...will have to work on that.
• I noted if the 2d sonar lost bottom, the fuzz increases in the SS image...when it finds bottom again, it clears up. I could replicate this if I stopped sonar on the TM150, will show that below.
• I also noted the interference boxes when the 2d was losing bottom as I was speeding up...slowing down eliminated them.

Now for the images, with a little commentary:

Here are a couple old screen shots from Last Year when SS3D was on 60.1.134, just included these for comparison.

https://i1044.photobucket.com/albums...psna7hmedq.png

https://i1044.photobucket.com/albums...psglhyuitt.pnghttp://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=984213http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=984213

https://i1044.photobucket.com/albums...psm0d7o4xi.png

https://i1044.photobucket.com/albums...psfluf4vbz.png


Here are a few shots using a couple different pallets on the 18.3 latest versions from tonight, note it is a little more fuzzy, I think this one had surface clarity set to med on DS and High on SS. Generally, they seem a little more fuzzy, but I also feel like I can see the objects generating returns better. I had waypoints on this object on the bottom from last year, and went back to the same spot to see how it showed up. Unfortunately, I don't have a screen shot from last year. Last year I was able to discern it was a wood pallet, and you can still see the top and bottom layer of it in the 2nd DS image. I think it may have broken up in the current, as the distinct slats are not quite as visible as they were last year.
https://i1044.photobucket.com/albums...psamcilrl6.png

https://i1044.photobucket.com/albums...pskkj9k9ia.png

Here is a shot with a couple different palette:

https://i1044.photobucket.com/albums...ps8n4ozya2.png

And a couple shots of the same scan where I switched from yup's favorite palette to my favorite:

https://i1044.photobucket.com/albums...psttz4yfvh.png

https://i1044.photobucket.com/albums...pszu7hauty.png

Here is a shot that shows the extra fuzz in the DS and SS where the TM150 is having trouble tracking the bottom, that I mentioned before. You see that it clears up after the 2d finds the bottom again.
https://i1044.photobucket.com/albums...pszzuispwh.png

Here is another example of the fuzz and the 2d not having good bottom lock, but it is also one of the better sidescans I got tonight. You can see a boat ramp on the left side, I should have grabbed a pic with my phone, but it was a perfect scan of the boat ramp as it entered the water. Note the fish right around the boat ramp.

https://i1044.photobucket.com/albums...psbbirdva5.png

Here is a nice catch of some fish on the bottom:
https://i1044.photobucket.com/albums...psz2rtygfh.png

And a nice shot of some fish on top of a hump. There was some timber sticking out of the water on the right at the top of the hump, and you can see it on the right in the image.
https://i1044.photobucket.com/albums...pshhmrdfou.png

Lastly, here is an example of the checkerboard pattern, you will notice that the TM150 had begun to lose bottom; I had been speeding up a bit when those happened, so the water could have been less clean at the transducer and/or they started to come out of the water.

https://i1044.photobucket.com/albums...psmveks2xb.png


So, that is what I have. I did note that yupitsme's favorite palette seems to have more clutter in the water column and more fuzz, but it also gives hotter returns when it hits stuff, so it could be useful, just have to get used to it.

Generally, I am pretty happy with these images, and feel they are a little improved from the stuff I had last fall. Again, I didn't spend a ton of time looking for fish tonight, just hit some spots where I kind of know the structure.

Hope this helps and gives you an idea of what can be obtained with the new software.

Outstanding write up...+1000...good job!:thumb up2:

Thanks for posting your images I have had similiar results my thoughts are the new software puts to much signal in the water hence the “fuzz” as you call it.I reverted my 3d back to 18.2 for that very issue but haven’t tested it yet.Palate 6 will give you the cleanest returns and 8 has the most clutter for sure.I find that the new software is not as clear more washed out looking. About the tm 150 if you do a search you will find in shallow water most prefer fixed frequency With 105 being the hot one for very shallow. I also read that 155 is best for on plane with med chirp for deeper waters. Just some thoughts , your results may vary!

you guys are making me nervous. i just bought a 7 inch carbon for my boat. although i wont have a 3d structure scan setup. i am thinking active imaging 2n1 transducer later down the road. i got 3 update files saved for carbon. now to decide on which one to use. i dont have the numbers handy but one is the fish reveal update, next is the one that came out in Aug of last yr and the latest one.

Thank you for the images & a great write up. Very informative..I am attaching an image with the TM150 for the purpose of letting folks see what I had with older software. When I updated my 3DSS my images went south.. Looking at the SOURCE you can see the Software I was using..I now only have (2) 3-IN-1 transducers.. Not totally pleased with my DI.

The 105 fixed frequency was best for me...The secret DI frequency is not working well for me..

https://i.postimg.cc/NMRptFZy/2018-0...-TM150-006.png

Sure are a lot of ghost double return images on the first couple SI pics, I think they all look horrible. I thought guys were originally claiming that the 3d was better than all the previous SS ducers?


Donnie, yours look better than those up top do.

Well done MJ3... Some of your screen captures show good images. Some... not so good. I'm guessing you did not have fish reveal engaged during this session. I'm also supposin' you noticed that the SS3D Module version number is no longer displayed at the top center of the screen but is only found on the menu under "Source". I don't recall the images/2D being so sensitive to speed in the past. That may be a function of your installation and my results may vary.... My boat idles +/- 3 mph so I should be good there - have been in the past. Used to be I could hot foot it pretty good and still have good images. Recently when my 2D was rock solid and locked on the bottom I still had no images to speak of. The 3D Transducer simply would not bottom lock regardless of how the 2D plays a role in that process. Your results gives me hope that the 2-in-1 I'm installing today will preform up to expectations - Although I do not plan on testing it until next week.

I still believe there's something going on with the 18.3-61.1.155 release that is over powering the 3D Transducer. Or a filter that's not functioning. The "Fuzz" so evident with the #8 pallet is still obvious with other pallets but the net impact is way less.

I'm glad it all worked out for you and your equipment is actually usable. And thanks for taking the time to document your experience with the 18.3-61.1.155 update so well.

Found a couple more shots from last year on 18.2 and added to my original post.

I don’t think anyone will know the answer to this, but why do his right side SI images all have a stronger showing of a thermocline. The left shows vaguely, it’s strong on the right. Any chance his ducer is a tad off kilter or is the SS ducer just ravoring the right crystal more?



I agree the 18.1 are better though.

My transducer is mounted to the starboard side of my outboard. Not saying it happened yesterday, because I was trying to be careful, but sometimes I forget to trim up the motor so the lower unit is out of the way of the Ducer....maybe on a couple of those images that is what I did....

It was also only me in the boat, so maybe there is a slight roll to the starboard side?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MichaelJ3

Found a couple more shots from last year on 18.1 and added to my original post.

---

Michael, in my opinion, those are a lot better..Others may have a different opinion..

Thanks again for your thread..We all need to work together to get some issues resolved..

Nothing to be nervous about this is a 3d issue.

Just to clarify.... The pre-latest update screen captures 61.1.134 are actually... 18.2-61.1.134 and not a version of 18.1. Prior to 18.2-61.1.134 I have 4.0-59.1.186. I don't have any 18.1 anything. Not that it actually matters one way or the other....:smile:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by acwd1950

you guys are making me nervous. i just bought a 7 inch carbon for my boat. although i wont have a 3d structure scan setup. i am thinking active imaging 2n1 transducer later down the road. i got 3 update files saved for carbon. now to decide on which one to use. i dont have the numbers handy but one is the fish reveal update, next is the one that came out in Aug of last yr and the latest one.

---

You should be afraid.... very afraid [Insert ghoulish laugh fading into silence...]

Edited my post...to say 18.2....not sure how to change the title.

Mj3 your earlier shots are much clearer all that fuzz that over powers the water column is overlayed on the bottom returns as well making them less clear. When my outboard isn’t trimmed high enough i get a darker bottom image on the obstructed side. I just trim up until it clears up.The tm 150 needs to be facing forward to work. My tm 150 faces forward and 3d faces more rearward as looking at it out of the water You shouldn’t lose bottom at 3.5 mph. On my unit the software version shows on the ss screen with the lowrance ducer but not with the tm150 as yup has noted.Donnie g is correct we need to help each other out to solve this issue. There was another thread with pics posted with different software versions a while back and I thought the current hds software and 18.2 3 d software looked best thats what i’m trying next.We will get to the bottom of this.

Hey All, here is a list, by date, of all the Carbon and SS3D Updates I have, which I think is all of them...

https://i1044.photobucket.com/albums...pspbd8auso.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by yupitsme

You should be afraid.... very afraid [Insert ghoulish laugh fading into silence...]

---

Hehehe hilarious

Michael I think there is also a StructureScan3D-18.2-60.1.142-Standard-1.riw

That could be, I simply listed what I had downloaded, may not have that version.

I may backlevel my SS3D to an earlier version and leave the head units at 18.3...have options.

Maybe I should call Lowrance and point them at this thread...they could at least know what we are seeing.